Open Top Gunsmith

[CptEnglehorn]

Can anyone recommend a smith to install the coil and plunger hand spring to reduce or eliminate the over rotation of my open top cylinders. I had the guns with joe perkins of classic single action and he did an amazing action job on them. However i forgot to ask him about this mod and he is quite busy. One open top is pretty good about not over rotating, but the other if you dont work the hammer just right, itll run past. According to what ive read the plunger and spring are the most decent solution to the issue, id appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I realize it is a flaw of the design, but id like to reduce the frequency of it occurring and yes I have been shooting them one handed.

[Pettifogger]

Read these.

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7988

Any smith with a drill press or mill can do the job.

[rifle]

I understand the coil spring and plunger modification is to eliminate the flat spring frailty.

The over-rotation ,I'd say, can be caused by a hand too long but other things make it happen too.

I wonder what type Open Topyer referring to. The open top Colts before the 1871-2 actual "Open Top".

I'd have to know what type gun and manufacturer before going thru all the possible causes of over rotation. It ain't the hand spring that's fer sure I'd be a-guessin.

Out of time or a poor fit to the bolt and the cylinder notches is where I'd look first. There are things that can be done to help a poor Colt work faster and not over rotate. The fit of the bolt compared to the cylinder notches and the timing has to be prime to handle the fast brutal working of the action like is done fer CASS shooting.

The bolt needs to ride the center of the ramp/lead-in before the notch and needs to get to the bottom of the notch in the cylinder as fast as possible before slamming into the side of the notch that does the stopping of the cylinder.


If there is a deep enough notch then a lil cant to the bolt head that lets the stopping side of the bolt head get low fast to hit as much notch stopping side as possible. That mod can be a help.

The fit of the bolt on it's screw needs to be snug so the bolt won't cant over from the force of the cylinder hitting it. The bolt window in the frame needs to be sized right on fer the size of the bolt head also.

The bolt may need a bolt bolster/block to stabilize it from the force of the hit to it. That part sits in the frame next to the bolt and close to the frame on the other side. It needs to be a close tolerance and have a round cut to the end so it goes under and a lil over the bolt screw and be a snug fit to the curve of the milled recess in the frame so it stays put well. It isn't imperetive to be like that since a simple block set in the space will work if it's the right thickness to bolster the stability of the bolt.

If the bolt can cant over from the force of the cylinder against it then it slopes some and lets the cylinder move the bolt down into the frame some so it can ride past it. A lightened trigger bolt spring on the bolt side to it can be a hinderance to the bolt staying put in the notch of the cylinder also.

Damage to the notch edges can't be tolerated either. The bolt needs all the notch edge it can get to stop that cylinder which is relatively heavy.

Remember the "long hand" can put to much force to the turning of the cylinder also. The hand length needs to be just right and not push the cylinder past the point it should stop.

If the lock up is real tight then...check it by seeing if the cylinder can turn a small amount back and forth within it's tolerance of the bolt fit to the notches. If there is "no tiny amount" of movement to the cylinder the bolt head is too tight or...the hand is forced against the cylinder index teeth behind the cylinder and the hand is forcing the cylinder against the bolt too hard.

Check that by going to full cock position and then hold the trigger back as you let the hammer move forward a tiny bit. If the cylinder frees up and will move a tiny bit then the hand is too long and is forcing the cylinder against the bolt head too hard. If the fit of the bolt head to the notches is right on with no lil loose to the tolerance this will be hard to check. The fit of the bolt head in the cylinder notches needs a lil loose to it even if it's only a .001 of an inch. The bolt can't be too tight in the notches or the ability to get to the bottom of the notches can be impeded for the bolt head. That can lead to the bolt head using only part of the notch edge that stops the cylinder so the cylinder may over rotate. Fer fast shootin or even medium fast shootin or pulling of the hammer the bolt head can't be too tight in the cylinder notches.
That about covers it. Fast shootin for open top Colts needs the parts concerned fit very well and helped some with the bolt block/bolster also.Thhe bolt block is imperative if...the window in the frame for the bolt head is a lil too big fer it.

Hope this is a help since I sorta hate to type stuff.

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[Fox Creek Kid]

...Hope this is a help since I sorta hate to type stuff.

We noticed.         

[Coffinmaker]

Capt Englehorn,
You may find the information provided by Rifle to be a mite brief, as he doesn't much like to type.  The more lengthy version is the bolt rise is probably not the problem and the coil and plunger may not have any effect.  First look to the fit of the bolt to the cylinder notches and the length of the second step on the hand.  The factory assembly pukes don't necessarily know squat about what they are putting together.  I also suggest you print off Rifle's answer for study 

Coffinmaker

[CptEnglehorn]

thanks all for the info, ill pass it on to my smith, on the open top that was over rotating alot, I took it apart and the handspring actually broke. it was very soft, is there a new harder replacement available or am I gonna have to go with another uberti part.

[Mean Bob Mean]

thanks all for the info, ill pass it on to my smith, on the open top that was over rotating alot, I took it apart and the handspring actually broke. it was very soft, is there a new harder replacement available or am I gonna have to go with another uberti part.

Let me know if your guy doesn't weant to mess with it, I have a great gunsmith for OTs and Conversions. 

[Dances With Coyotes]

Google "Goons Gun Works" I found out about him yesterday. Have never sent anything to him but I'm thinking about it

[CptEnglehorn]

Let me know if your guy doesn't weant to mess with it, I have a great gunsmith for OTs and Conversions. 

sent you a pm requesting details, will look up goons as well.

[rifle]

HA HA HA

I just came across this post after being lost in some type of time warp.

You Hombre are funny at times. I'm glad to have the support of you Hombre fer my vexing problem with my aversion to typing.

I guess since the hand spring was broken or cracked and about to break that was the problem. If the hand spring doesn't apply some pressure to stop the free spin of the cylinder the cylinder can take off like a dragster and get ahead of the timing of the action cycle.

The cylinder can get past the bolt before the bolt pops backup in a case like that. I guess I should have mentoned that possible cause of the problem.    It was already mentioned I thunk.

Anywhooooo.....if the gun is a Uberti then that type part should fix the gun with a lil adjustment probably. A wholehand isn't needed since the parts Guru's sell the lil spring separatly and they aren't realhard to install.

There's a certain way to peg the spring backin to do it properly. Most gunsmiths can doit right. A lil tool to peg the metal back around the spring to hold it well is needed so both sides of the hand metal can be peened a lil down in the right place. I made one from an old chisel by making a "V" in it to staddle the part so it peens both sides at once.

That's the trick. Peen both sides of the hand down over the spring in the right place. The right place is where the notches are on the sides of the spring and...if there are no notches on the sides of the spring you make them.