Civilian Flap Holsters - How common were they?

[Bead Swinger]

Can anyone comment on how common were flap holsters in civilian use in the 1870's?  I know they don't show up in movies very much.

Sure seems that if I were out to protect an invsetment, I'd want the flap to keep the dust, rain, snow, etc. off my pistol.

[knucklehead]

I have taken the following out of my book "Packing iron, gunleather of the frontier west".

the pommel holster was used untill CPT George B McClellan first us calavalry ordered for his regiment armed with revolvers the men should follow the russian system and always carry the pistol on the waist belt.

The pommel holster started being used by civilians in the 1830s, a single shot muzzleloader carried in it.
the belt flap holster for civilians made in 1850-1865.
the belt half flap holster for civilians made in 1865-1875
the open top belt holsters california pattern holster made in 1850-1855

this book shows pictures of various holsters of the old west. and is very informative.
I highly recomend this book to anyone that wants to know the history of gunleather.

hope this helps you out

[St. George]

The civilian flap-type of holster was widely used during the percussion era, with a little carry over into the cartridge era.
It was supplanted by the 'Slim Jim' holster and evolved into the more common 'Mexican Loop' as seen today - though period Mexican Loop holsters held the piece much deeper than today's rigs do - to protect and secure it.

Despite what's portrayed on the Silver Screen - not everyone wandered around armed to the teeth.

Many revolvers were carried inside coat pockets - Wyatt Earp actually did so as he walked down the street to the OK Corral...

Another thing - during the period, they were regarded as 'tools'  - to be carried and used for a purpose - and not as the 'sporting equipment' that they are today.

I'd recommend reading 'Packing Iron - Gunleather of the Frontier West' - by Rattenbury.

It's an excellent reference of period gun leather of all varieties.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

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[Marshal Will Wingam]

I also recommend "Packing Iron". I probably go to that more often than any other book.

[will ghormley]

Flapped holsters were real common with cap 'n ball.  The fourty-niners found them to be deadly when they needed a gun fast, thus the development of the slim jim, or fourty-niner.  It held the gun fast, was built high to protect the caps, but could be yanked out in a hurry if needed.  Flapped holsters fell from favor after the advent of the metallic cartridge, yet it was gradual.  I wanted Thell Reed to have Dan Evans cut the flap off a holster as he got ready to take Ben Wade to the train station in the re-make "3:10 to Yuma".  It would have been a great bit of history, but movies aren't made by historians.  Oh well.
Will

[Slowhand Bob]

I really like the holsters you done fer "3:10 TO YUMA" Will.  Is the Schofield holster based on a skirtless version of your 'Cheyenne Pattern' from the pattern pack with the same name?  You really dressed it up with the stitching pattern in red on black leather.   

I do wonder if you could help me with a small request though?  Reckon you could git me a part in one of them there western movies?  Everyone agrees that, if it were not fer my nose and chin, I would look jist like a short, fat and bald version of Tom Selleck.  Thats it, I could be his stunt double, as long as my bad back and arthyritous is taken into consideration.

 

[will ghormley]

Thanks for the nod.  It's always gratifying to know your work is appreciated.  As for the Schofield holster, no it isn't based on the pattern pack, though they have some similarities.  The first holster I did for Ben Foster's character had an arched back that showed off the red lining.  Thell didn't like that because it made it more difficult to draw from.  He also wanted it looser.  The idea for the holster came from one I had replicated for a Colt '51 Navy some years ago.  I simplified it for the one used in the movie.

Everything had to be distressed for the movie.  All of the spots had to be scuffed up before I put 'em on the holster.  I did a number of holster and other things for some of the gang members.  Maybe one of the coolest things was a set of rifle scabbards for an assassin's Colt-Root revolving rifle.  It had been re-chambered for .45-70 and fitted with a brass scope.  The director said he wanted him to be able to swoop off the horse and whip the rifle out of the scabbard like a Samari Warrior!  Well, we'll see it they got that effect this October.

As for gettin' ya in the movies, I'll work on it.  Don't hold your breath though, 'cause I've been tryin' to ride one of my saddles in a movie as an extra for years now, ever since "Ride With the Devil".  I'm not havin' much success.  Don't worry about the physical inconsistancies though, they can work wonders with computers these days.  In fact, you could probably be an extra in a movie without even showin' up for the filming.

Will

[Tommy tornado]

I use a military holster that I cut the flap off on occasion.  It was an old repro. that I bought as a kid with one of those non-firing Navies.

[Slowhand Bob]

Tommy, this probly looks more like an old post Civil War cowboys rig than most out there.  To a degree, the less perfect the cut job the more orriginal it would look.  My prefered rig is the Plain Jane Slim Jims, strong side and cross draw.  I do modern them up a bit to help with the draw but most of it isnt noticable from a short piece away.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Don't worry about the physical inconsistancies though, they can work wonders with computers these days.  In fact, you could probably be an extra in a movie without even showin' up for the filming.

[Tubac]

Here are photos of an old flap holster I cut down for an 1851 Colt Navy conversion.

Tuibac

[Tubac]

here's another, it fits pretty good.

Tubac

[Tommy tornado]

Here is mine

[Slowhand Bob]

Now Marshall, dawnt encourage the him!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Those cut off holsters have a nice look all their own. Thanks for posting the pics.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Now Marshall, dawnt encourage the him!

[Slowhand Bob]

I like the way you guys think.  A working cowboy would not have been using antiques but it would have been well used and very likely altered to fit a perceived need.  Even though, by our standards, an early leather worker wouldnt have made much, a cowboys salary was probly less.  If this line of thought is correct, a working cowboy would have been highly unlikely to spend money on highly decorative gun leather.  I do love the history cowboys and their trappings and speculating bout what we do not know for sure does tend to be fun. 

[will ghormley]

Many a man got rich in the cattle industry, especially at the end of the Civil War when the East was in ruin and beef-starved.  Men in them days were no different than today.  If they had it, they spent it on Victorian bling.  That would have included a nice suit of clothes, fancy boots, spurs, a gun and rig, the best saddle money could buy and a good horse.  Of course, for every cowboy who made a killing on movin' long horns about, there were hundreds who made their thirty-a-month-and-found.  Even then, they would save up their poke for what was most important to them.  It's not like they had to pay rent, buy groceries or pay utility bills.  Sometimes what was important was a poke when they got to town, other times it was spent on tools of the trade, improving thier standing in their chosen profession.

Even today, the person most likely to buy a three thousand dollar, hand built saddle, is the dirt poor ranch hand who spends his days in a saddle and knows it's value.  The weekend equestrian warrior, even one with some scratch, will settle for a two hundred dollar kack from the co-op.  Yesterday's cowboys are no different than the shooters of today, they'll make due with what they've got till they can afford what they want.  It's all a matter of priority and pride, yesterday and today.

Will