Proposed GAF class structure: For commentary

[Drydock]

These are meant to be GAF classes at a GAF only match, like a regional or National Muster. GAF classes are Rifle based, not handgun as per SASS and NCOWs.  Mode of hangun operation is considered irrelivant based on the use of one gun and reloading.

Much of this is based on the concepts as put forth in the "Battle Rifle" standards.  THese are all 2 gun (rifle and pistol) unless specificaly stated.  Please review the "Battle Rifle" entry.

Those wishing to use C&Bs may use more than one revolver/cylinder, but will have to cap on the clock in liu of reloading.

All Calibers in the Milspec class will be milspec, with case by case exemptions granted.  (Example: a properly outfitted Winchester 95 carbine in .30-06 may be accepted in liu of the Milspec .30 US caliber)

All calibers will be loaded to CAS spec.  Rifle calibers will be all lead, no more than 405 grains lead at no more than 1400 FPS.  Hangun calibers all lead at no more than 1000 fps.  Further requirements for minimum pistol loadings are under discussion.

Handgun Calibers in "Civilian" classes (Militia and Scout) will have a minmum bore diameter of .357.

For purposes here, Spencers are considered "Repeaters," not lever actions. Winchester 95s are also considered "Repeaters".  "Lever actions" utilize underbarrel magazines.

1-Milspec Repeating Rifle, smokeless powder.
2-Milspec Repeating Rifle, Black Powder.
(combine if numbers warrent)

3-Milspec Single Shot, Smokeless Powder.
4-Milspec Single Shot, Black Powder.
(Combine if Numbers warrent)

5-Militia-Lever action rifle calibers, single action revolvers.
6-Scout- Lever action pistol calibers, single action revolvers.
(Combine if numbers warrent.  Each can be seperated by powder type, should numbers warrent)

OPTIONS
7-Staff Officer- Handgun only.
8-Infantry-Milspec rifle only.
9-Buffalo Scout- Single shot hunting rifles (no ejectors), single action revolver.
10-Forager- Single shot (ejectors allowed) double barrel (No ejectors) or lever action shotgun, single action revolver. (Bummer class!)

For those wanting a Spencer class, If you think about it, BP repeater will most likely be just that.

Reviewing the Battle rifle standards, you will see that it refers to hanguns, not single action revolvers.  It means just that.  That they should be related in PERIOD to the rifle used in the Milspec classes gives a great deal of flexibility.  MILSPEC classes will be shot in accordance with Battle Rifle Standards

Should numbers dictate then, a match could be shot with as few as 3 classes, or as many as 12.

[Old Top]

Sgt. Drydock,

Sounds good, have you looked a Maj Matt's suggestions on a Military Catagory, he seems to have given some thought to this idea also.  I like the way that you have divided classes into black and smokeless, do you have an idea as to targets and target distance.  Please keep up the good work.

Old Top

[sharps54]

Maybe I'm looking at this too much as a match director / stage designer but you only have shotguns in one class that I can see and you specify 2 gun unless otherwise mentioned. What will the Forager shoot the shotgun at, handgun targets? I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be better to make this 2 gun only instead of adding a shotgun for just one class. I take it you are looking to use the same basic rules as SASS prehaps with some longer shots for the rifles? I like the idea of a competition designed around military personas even if it may not see much play out here. I wonder since this won't be a SASS match and since it would probably have a lower turn out (meaning more time to paste targets) why you wouldn't just use paper targets for the rifles and use the standard loads kind of like a modern 3 gun match.
I look forward to watching this develop.
Mild Myles

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[Drydock]

When I say two gun, its just that.  The "Forager" would carry a shotgun and a revolver. Thats it.  None of our classes use more than one handgun, one longgun.

We shoot combat matchs at standard distances at steel targets.  The Optional Forager class (at a match directors descretion), would have the shotgun engagine the long gun targets.  This is actualy quite common at many Combat matchs, with the shotgun often used to "Pick up" missed rifle targets.  "Forager" is simply for fun really.  Its not competitive, but a great excuse to haul out granpappys old scattergun. 

Its really just a brainstorm I had while thinking of GAF style classes along military lines, while watching "Shermans March" on the History channel . . .

Even with fewer participants, the GAF emphasis on time spent in reloading, and the need for downrange safety in a combat style match precludes the use of paper targets.  Multiple scenarios are often shot on a common firing line.

[sharps54]

SGT Drydock,
Got ya. I wasn't picking at your idea just getting clarification. I am in VA and most if not all the CAS I have seen locally are SASS matches which is why I menioned the turn out. Hopefully Marshal Deadwood will get his NCOWS club up and going out to the west of the state, that might provide a better venue for this. If run in SASS format instead of a squad like a modern 3 gun match then I see your point. I guess it really matters on the location of the shoot. In NC we ran 3 gun matches on ranges where we would have 4 to 6 seperate bays (some going 100 to 300 yrds) so there wasn't an issue with other squads while you pasted paper but if you are using a flat range with a single line like a traditional military zero range I can the logic of using a SASS format. Thanks for the detailed response, it answered my questions and I am still looking forward to seeing if this shakes out. I would be happy to travel a few hours to shoot it.

[Drydock]

There is another consideration here for the use of CAS style loadings and targets.  In many cases in our Milspec classes we are talking of weapons well over 100 years old. There are no modern reproductions. (My personal Repeater is a Krag Jorgenson made in 1899)  Rather than having the folks around me trying do develop the flattest shooting jacketed rounds for punching paper at 100-300 yards in rapid fire scenarios;  instead we'll be tossing low pressure lead softballs at 50 feet or so.  Easy play in honored retirement for the old warriors.

[sharps54]

There is another consideration here for the use of CAS style loadings and targets.  In many cases in our Milspec classes we are talking of weapons well over 100 years old. There are no modern reproductions. (My personal Repeater is a Krag Jorgenson made in 1899)  Rather than having the folks around me trying do develop the flattest shooting jacketed rounds for punching paper at 100-300 yards in rapid fire scenarios;  instead we'll be tossing low pressure lead softballs at 50 feet or so.  Easy play in honored retirement for the old warriors.

Sounds good to me! If this works out I plan on using my Martini Henry and dress like a Boer so I'm all for taking it easy on the weapons.

[Pitspitr]

instead we'll be tossing low pressure lead softballs at 50 feet or so.  Easy play in honored retirement for the old warriors.

Perfect for the ultimate trapdoor gamer load for the trapdoor... The gallery load. 4 gr. FF and a .457 round ball.
But none of them whimpy gamer loads for me boy! I still like inflicting pain on myself with 500 gr bullets. I'm a WARTHOG!

[Books OToole]

BTT for Mulee Pete.


Books

[Major Matt Lewis]

I like the way Drydock set this out.  I would like to see the ability to use a Double Action Revolver in the Military Bolt class as an option.  A DA revolver offers no competitive advantage in these types of shoot I feel.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I like the way Drydock set this out.  I would like to see the ability to use a Double Action Revolver in the Military Bolt class as an option.  A DA revolver offers no competitive advantage in these types of shoot I feel.

I'm with ya, Major Matt.  A DA revolver's REAL advantage is in REAL  combat or self-defense situations.      IMHO, of course. 

[Drydock]

Geeze, read the whole dang post please! If you read the rules, you will see where it says "Handgun", NOT SA revolver.  Milspec classes may utilize any reasonable handgun of the period prior to 1901.  That meansSA revolvers, Period DA revolvers, Mauser Broomhandles, et al.  Only the Scout classes are restricted to single action revolvers.  The handgun needs only to be reasonably related in period to the rifle used.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I sit corrected.

[Eagle Eyes Jefferson]

Does that mean you were sittin' sideways when you posted earlier? I guess you're sittin' up straight now!!

EEJ

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I simply wasn't vertical ...

So couldn't say "I stand corrected."