300 & 400 Yard Shots!

[Ranch 13]

Well so much for the 200 yd bs.... I was hoping you'ld bring the letter to sharps from the guy that was telling how he could shoot thru and kill 2 bulls with one shot from his 44-77 at 500 yds...

While Seller's book might not list any 120-550 loads for the Sharps, Sharps catalogs do....
They even have a letter from a guy that just came back from the Platte asking that they loaded a 3.25 case with 120 grs of powder... They replied that they were offering a 120 gr load in the 2 7/8's case...

[James Hunt]

So to return to Skyrider's original query - primary evidence indicates that 300 - 400 yard shots were not a creation of Hollywood, and that in fact kills at that distance and at significantly longer ranges were common. While Billy Dixon's effort was a "scratch shot" by his own admission, the ability of these hunters at distances out to 600 yards and maybe beyond was real.

Clearly the current BPCR crowd have demonstrated the capacity of these rifles, but the skill of the commercial hide hunter takes no back seat to them when it is remembered that these guy's were either using factory ammo or more often cartridges that were reloaded by the most basic if not crude instruments on an unforgiving prairie and perhaps even by the light of a campfire.

PJ: I appreciated your sympathy regarding my lack of shooting skill, unneeded though as I have a pretty good time despite it.

[PJ Hardtack]

James - apologies for the 'dig'. Yes, the old timers were great riflemen, but the modern riflemen have closed the gap with their accomplishments.

From Venturino's book on buffalo rifles:

"One reason confusion exists about the authenticity of at least the 45-120 in Sharps rifle chambered for a 3-1/4" cartridge. However, that is only looking at the matter from a modern perspective.
What those old time riflemen are speaking of is a .45 calibre Sharps chambered for the 2-7/8" case, and they have handloaded it with 120 grs of powder.
Since paper patched bullets can be seated so as to be barely held by the case, capacity can be increased dramatically. The original Remington 1878 catalog states: "The cartridges for our rifles may be increased in powder charge 10-20 grains at pleasure."

Logan lists a .45 3-1/4" Sharps loaded with 120 grs. "One of the longest cartridges produced in America. It was used in the Sharps-Borchardt Express Rifle which was, upon order, chambered for this 3 -1/4" case.
At least one Sharps Long range Creedmoor rifle is known to have been chambered for this cartridge. These .45 Sharps in the 3-1/4" case are very scarce collector's items of the present day."

If Mayer did in fact have a "45-120", it most likely was a handloaded '120', not factory. He ain't here to tell us .....

'Freedom' commented on the inability of shooters to estimate range. If there is dead ground between the shooter and the target, it becomes difficult. The Army spent a lot of time with us trying to educate in the intricacies of range estimation. It was deemed a crucial skill for calling in accurate mortar support.
This was before the common use of hand held range finders familiar to today's hunters. Most of us failed miserably! We were told that once we came under fire, we'd learn pretty damn quick!

In just the type of scenario we're talking about, I under estimated the range of 6 point Mule Deer. Both my buddy and I called it at 300 yards. I fired with a .308 (165 gr bullets) and it buckled, but got up and hobbled away. We found bone and blood where I first hit it. We bounced three more times in the trees, finding clumps of clotted blood, but it got away, hopefully to survive as a three legged deer.
Puzzled, I went back to the bone fragments and paced it off to where I sat for the shot - 400 yds! We were 100 yds short in our estimation.

That's why I wasn't an FMC (Forward Mortar Controller), as they were called then ......

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[Skyrider]

I am waiting on brass, it is not that plentiful it seems for a 44/120......being 3.25 inches in length. It seems as though I will most likely be melting down lead too in the near future to make my own bullets. The ones I got a while back are hard as steel....no joke.

This owning and shooting a buffalo rifle is more than meets the eye on first glance! Oh well, I will Get R Done you betcha. The wife is going to be shooting her rifle too and that is a big plus. I got my eye on another rifle but that is another story for a rainy day.

[Ranch 13]

I believe that Grafs has the 45-120 brass from Jamison Baco should have it as well, and if you get the right supplier the Norma basic 45 brass is 3.25.