45-70-500

[wyattm]

What was the original loading for the 45-70-500. I have the Lyman 457125 mould and throws a 520 gr bullet in my 16-1 mix. I used to shoot this out of an original trapdoor....I now have an Uberti trapdoor infantry rifle. I used to just fill up the case with 2fg and it shot great.However I was wondering what the original powder load was...50, 60 grs maybe.
Thanks,
Wyattm

[Ranch 13]

Nope it was 70 grs , and 1f powder to boot.
 You can get by with however little powder it takes to make contact with the base of the bullet, but as the distance gets further the less accurate the round will be especially if the winds get to kicking.

[JimBob]

The 500 grain loading is the M1881 cartridge,it was loaded with 70 grains of "musket powder" which was equivalent to 2F or as close as you're going to get nowadays.The M1873 loading used the same powder charge with a 405 grain hollow base bullet.The carbine loading was 55 grains using the M1873 405 grain bullet.

You have to keep in mind those powder charges were in a balloon head case not the current manufacture solid head type, it is difficult to impossible to get a 70 grain charge in a modern case without using a great deal of compression.

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[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

Mike Venturino says that your bullet mould should be the the beginning step with experimenting with bullets ... 'cause often it ends up being the final step .....

And I am now the proud owner of two Lyman and one double Lee 457125 Molds ... so we shall see (after Christmas)

[wyattm]

Thanks for all the info it is very much appreciated.

[Grapeshot]

You might want to check out Spence Wolf's book on reloading the .45-70 cartridges for original trapdoor rifles and carbines.

www.the4570book.com

[PJ Hardtack]

What grapeshot said .... get the book.  Whenever I acquire a new gun (or interest of any kind), the first thing I do is amass all the available reference books on the topic that I can find. Picking people's brains on the net can be a fruitless search. There's a lot of 'experts' out there .....

That list includes Wolf's book on the Trapdoors, Seller's book on the Sharps, Venturino's on the buffler rifles, lever guns and single actions, COTW, Suydam's book on obsolete rounds, Rattenbury's 'Packing Iron', Greener's 'The Gun', Layman's book on the Remington RBs, etc., etc.

I didn't realize when I got into guns I'd need a specific library on the type. Garands, Springfield '03s, Colts, Winchesters - all led to an expansion of the library. When it's too cold to shoot, I read. The purchase of the gun doesn't end there for a true gun nut.

Good luck on getting 70 grs of any BP into a 45-70 case and if you do under a 500 gr bullet - enjoy! Especially out of a carbine! I drop tube and apply compression, but don't think that crushing the top portion of a charge achieves anything good. Might make a difference if it was at the bottom and not the top of the powder column.

[Trailrider]

The original loading for the .45-70-500 was, indeed, 70 grains of "musket" powder, probably 1-1/2 Fg.  Keep in mind two things: First that load was achieved in balloon head cases, which have more powder capacity than modern solid head shells. Second, I believe that some of the present-day manufacturers of BP may have increased the burning rate of their powders to compensate for this.  Thus, in .45 LC, the original 40 grain charge is reduced to about 33-35 gr. of FFFg or about 88 percent of the original charge of 40 grains (which wasn't really used after a number of the first order blew their iron cylinders).  While I haven't tried .45-70-500 loads, I would follow the advice of those who recommend about 1/16" compression, after loading through a 24" drop tube. As far as shooting a 500 gr. bullet from a Springfield Carbine is concerned, the .45-70-405 gr. infantry loading was deemed more than enough in the recoil department, resulting in the issuance of the .45-55-405 round, using the same 2.1" case for all.