Guns & 'Smiths for CAS~ Opine within...

[BiGStick]

Hello Gentlemen & Ladies-
This is my first post so I figure I'd make it a good one. I'm looking to get into CAS, haven't got the gear yet. I do have a Wifey so budget is a consideration. I also REALLY like quality tools and do have an Ego so I will attempt to push the limits of said budget. Having said that, and having done lots of research on this and other forums, here's what I'm considering...

-I'm leaning towards two Vaqueros from Long Hunter. Also aware of the Quality work by Cody Conagher. Are there any other Excellent Gunsmiths that offer package deals on weapons/ tuning like these two fellows do? Links?

- I also really like the 1866 Winchester by Taylors (I like the brass receiver look), again from Long Hunter, but this would stretch the budget something fierce. Have considered a stock Henry Big Boy. Are these weapons competitive 'out of the box'? How do the 66 & 73 Winchesters compare to each other, i.e., does the 73 carry any big advantage over the 66?

-Due to the fact that I'll be spending big bucks on the first three weapons, the shotgun will be my red-headed stepchild. Looking at a Stoeger Coachgun with double triggers. Thoughts?

-If you had to choose, which weapon would be most in need of some quality Gunsmithing right away, the Vaqueros or the Winchester?

-I live in San Diego, so any places nearby where I can see & touch would be great.

All comments and opinions are appreciated. Links to sites are most helpful as well.
Thanks!
-Mark

[Camille Eonich]

You've picked out a couple of top notch smiths there and either one will do a great job for you.  Jimmy Spurs is another that I highly recommend  http://www.cowboygunworks.com/newfirearms.html along with Manatee.  I can't find Manatee's web site right though.


If you decide to wait on the '66 or '73 I would go with a Marlin over the Big Boy.  The '66 is a little heavier than the '73 but it's also a little less expensive.  You'll save a little cash by deciding what you want and ordering it from the smith you decide on.  That way you only have to pay shipping one way which could end up saving you a bunch.  Find an FFL in your area to accept it for you first and find out how much they are going to charge you for it.  Most don't charge much here around $15 or $20.

If you handle a '66 or a '73 right out of the box versus handling the Rugers right out of the box you'll notice the difference in the Winchester much more that you will the Rugers.  They are really stiff and after the smith gets done with them they should be smooth as butter.


Cowboys love to show off their guns so just show up at a match and start talking to people.  Here's a list of clubs in CA http://www.sassnet.com/clubs/Clubs_list.php?state=California  While you're there start asking about leather and why they made the choices that they did.  You'll probably get to try some belts and test some holster so you can see out how they feel to you.

[BiGStick]

Hey thanks for all the good info Camille, i really appreciate it

[Advertising]

[Jefro]

Howdy Big Stick, Camille makes some good points. IMHO the 73/66 is the best rifle for SASS. I prefer the 73, the 66 is a little heavier and does not have the lever safety, something to consider for the little lady. Depending on your wifes build the stock may need to be cut down to fit her. A well tuned Marlin is also a good rifle, light and easy to handle. Don't even consider the Big Boy, the absolute worst for this game, I've yet to see one finish a match. Rugers are built like a tank and hard to beat, I prefer the Colt style, but Rugers are the most popular. The Stoeger is a decent shotgun, but they are prone to some problems, see Marauders web site (Old Irons Page). For me they are like tring to shoulder a 2x6, alota folks shoot em without any trouble, and alota folks fight em. Again IMHO, the Baikal is a much better shotgun, and now being imported once again by EAA, Gunslinger at SASS just got some in. The Shotgun is something that needs to fit the lady, make sure to have the stock cut to fit or you will have an unhappy camper. One thing I highly suggest is to start going to as many local matches as possible, try out the different firearms before you spend one dime, most folks are more than willing to let you try our gear, we're weird that way. Buying package deals straight from one of the smiths is a great way to save shipping back and forth. Here's a few well know smiths that I've had good luck with. Good Luck
http://www.codyscowboyshop.com/
http://www.longhunt.com/missing.html
http://www.pioneergunworks.com/
http://cowboygunworks.com/index.html
http://www.cowboysandindianstore.com/

http://marauder.homestead.com/cowboy.html
Baikal 220
Gunslinger

Jefro

[rickk]

I just got a Ruger New Vaquero, and am waiting for the second one to show up. I've had a lot of Rugers (15+ maybe?) and the New Vaquero is "different". It is pretty much "done" when you take it out of the box. They did pretty much everything that normally needs to be done already. 

So, to answer your question, the Vaquero won't be the first thing out of your package that you will need to go messing with.


If you want, you can swap springs around (Brownells has parts) for reduced trigger pull. It's not bad right out of the box. For action shooting I would suggest shooting it like it is for a while before deciding if a lighter springs is a good thing or not.

As far as the Stoeger coach guns, I got both a single and a double trigger last fall. The double trigger has worked fine to date (only about 100 rounds thru it so far). The single trigger fired both barrels every time that I pulled the trigger. It went back , and still did it when it came back. It went back a second time. They said that I was too easy on the trigger, and that if I jerked it real hard it would not double.  I didn't want to deal with it, so they replaced it with a double trigger version. That one works fine so far (only 20 or so rounds through it).

While I had issues with the gun, I have to admit that the Stoeger service people were nice to deal with and took the issues seriously. They deal with the problem as best as they could, and I got something that worked in the end.

I can't speak for long term longevity yet.... too much snow on the ground to go out and shoot right now. At the very least, keep looking at the double trigger version, shy (run) away from the single trigger version. Also, the deluxe model ($100 bucks more than the basic model) can be had with a stainless receiver and it comes with a rubber butt pad (a necessity). Both of mine are that configuration.

[BiGStick]

Thankyou gentlemen
 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Finally I can speak with some experience,

First, check the local clubs... like californiagunslingers.com (All the Sacramento Clubs). You can often pick up a pair of exactly what you want for less than the original price, and the previous owner has already done (and paid) for all the things you would do ... For instance, I called a Territorial Governor and told him I was looking for a brace of Schofields and asked if he knew of any for sale ... long story short, I ended up with a a pair of Schofields with Stag grips ($160 extra) and polished actions and springs (almost priceless).


On the other hand, I bought a post 1964 Moldel '94 amd and old Baikal SXS ... the Baikal lasted me long enough for me to compete and get the Cap Coyote Model '87 ... and the Model '94 did yeoman' work competing until I got my Codymatic Model '73.

Then there are the three things ... first, if one buys from someone like Cody Conagher, he gets his guns from Taylors ... so you have two depths of customer service ....

Second, if you do the 'modifications' yourself, you have absolutely no insurance/guarantee that it will not cause other problems in your weapon ... and who is rea$pon$ible for the damages? YOU  ....

Thirdly, there is cost:I would also think that you would pay far more to buy all the trinkets to make that 'supergun' than if you bought the finished product.

Then there is the possibility of having to leave the firing line before the end of the day with a broken gun ... I have never had to do this .... just some thing to think about  ...


My father was an AF Maintenance Officer and one of the few pieces of advice I listened to him about was that you should always buy the best tools you could afford.  And these are tools of a sort ...

[BiGStick]

W.W.E.
Great post, I could not agree with you more, especially on the last part. I was an Air Force Maintenance Technician- 'Jet Mech'- for 10 years. Quality Tools- Buy 'em once, keep 'em forever.

I just ordered a set of SASS Vaqueros, And the next step is a '73 from either LongHunter or Cody. Also looking at the LongHunter Pistol Rig.

Anyone have experience with this or the Evil Roy Rig? Looking for quality Leather made with CAS competition in mind without breaking the bank.

Thanks!

[Blackpowder Burn]

BigStick,

I have an Evil Roy rig from Mernickle, and am very happy with it.  That being said, there are other smaller leather makers out there that will provide equal quality for less money.  As a "fer instance", we have a guy in our club that is in the leather business - Johnny Morris.  He does outstanding work - I'd put him in the league of Mernickle.  And his price is about half a much.  He has a website you can check out.   www.jm-leather.com

I have 4 USFA's from Long Hunter.  They are absolutely the nicest guns I've ever handled.  Great action work, and have been totally reliable - and I shoot them 100% with black powder.

On the subject of shotguns - you might also consider the hammered doubles as sold by EMF, Cimarron, and Taylors.  These are reproductions of the 1878 Colt shotgun and are built like a tank.  The hammers are also positioned such that it is very easy to sweep both with your thumb for cocking.  I love mine and shoot it exclusively, except when I'm shooting Wild Bunch with my '97 Winchester.

[BiGStick]

Aggie-
Thanks for the link to JM's, Awesome stuff! I'm gonna call him up