My 1st 45-70 BP loads

[Dastardly Tom]

I finally have all the componets together, going to load 60 grs of Goex FFg with .062 veggie wad, Federal LRP, Penn 500 gr RNPB bullet.
Have my Dillon 550 set up, to 1. reprime & size, 2. expand case, then out for powder, 3. compress powder, 4. set bullet and on my single stage press use Lyman taper crimp die to finish. I have the Wolf case expander & powder compressor tools for station 2 & 3.
Going to feed these to my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps.

BTW this load except for the veggie over powder wad is from Lymans lastest issue Black Powder Handbook.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

What cases are you using?  W-W have the greatest capacity, R-P's are less, and FC have less still.  Use one brand and stick to it.

The powder load sounds light.  You will have to measure the overall cartridge length with bullet seated to kiss the lands.  Measure the length of bullet inside the case.  Drop-tube enough powder into the case so your load allows for wads and your chosen compression.  That will be your load, not what you've read from someone else.

When improving your load, change only ONE THING AT A TIME. And test carefully.

[Ranch 13]

If you're going to shoot those past about 500 yds with anytype of accuracy, you'll need to jump that powder charge to at least 65 grs and 70 will get you to 1000yds with plenty to spare.

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[Dastardly Tom]

Cases are Starline, 60 grs by wt are about .200 from case mouth so with the wad thought I'd be okay for compression, I just checked the book again and this load only gives me 1063 FPS so I'll bump up to 65 grs and a few at 70 grs.
Thanks for the tips & help.
I've done smokless for more years than I care to recall, but 1st time for BP, it seems to be a lot more steps than smokless.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Drop Tube!

Get a 2 foot length of copper pipe and clamp it upright.  Funnel in the top, and a reducing fitting in the bottom.  You will easily get the extra powder into the same space without crushing the grains.

[Blackpowder Burn]

You might also want to try Goex Express powder.  My group sizes shrunk dramatically by changing from standard Goex to Express.  No other changes to the load.

[Dastardly Tom]

You might also want to try Goex Express powder.  My group sizes shrunk dramatically by changing from standard Goex to Express.  No other changes to the load.

I take it you use it in FFg?

[Blackpowder Burn]

I don't have a 45-70, but I shoot 3F Express in a 38-55 and 2F Express in the 40-65.  Both responded similarly to the switch to Express.  The Express has a more uniform grain size and it made a big difference in my 2 rifles.

[Ranch 13]

Depending on the accuracy level and distances you want to shoot. IF the 2f goex doesn't get it done, the next best powder to try in the 45-70 is cartridge. Excellent accuracy, not quite as much fps as 2f express, but certainly not enough difference to justify the extra expense of the Express, unless you're competing at a very high level.
 Cartridge also provides some good accuracy in the 38-55 and 40-65.

[Blackpowder Burn]

There's not enough price difference in the standard Goex and the Express to worry about.  It only amounts to $0.02 to $0.03 per round, which is peanuts compared to the cost of everything else we spend on this sport! 

[Ranch 13]

  Well I'm glad you got that money tree in your backyard Agnes, but 5-6$ a lb is a pretty big difference when you shoot a case or more,in a year.

[Blackpowder Burn]

That's why they make all the different types and granulations of powder - so we can all find what works best in our individual guns and cartridges.  For me, the improvement in accuracy is well worth the cost.

Likewise, my comment was only to suggest to Dastardly Tom that it might be worthwhile to evaluate it in his rifle.  He can then evaluate the cost versus benefit received.

[Ranch 13]

 I extensively tested 2f express in 06 when it was first released to public markets, and after shooting over a half case of 2f express in my 45-70's in competition out to1000 yds, I found the accuracy difference between it and Cartridge to be so minimal that the 5 $ extra for express to be not warranted.
 Now if a person was to get into the long range paper matches then maybe the express might be worth it, maybe.
 3f express did improove the velocity of the 400 gr bullets in the 40-65, making it a wee bit better at 800 and 1000 yd gong swattin but not that much improovement in the accuracy.
 Fouling with express is somewhat softer than with cartridge, but fouling is easily dealt with.
Yes a person should test all the various powders, but there comes a point at which a person has to set down and be real honest with yourself and decide it the targets are showing the 19 cent per round extra a worthwhile investement.
 For what its worth I've found a load with 2f shuetzen (1$ per can cheaper than regular goex) that will shoot tighter groups under 500 yds than anything else I've tried, but it falls apart at 800 yds. Would be fantastic for sillouetter shooting.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Ranch,

I haven't shot at the long ranges you have, and that's interesting information.

I do have to ask how you come up with an increased cost of $0.19 per round, though. 
 - With my 38-55 I load shoot 46 grains.  That gives me 152 rounds per pound of powder.  Assuming Express costs an extra $5.00 per 
   pound, that is an increased cost of $0.031 per round.
 - Likewise for my 40-65 shooting a load of 57 grains, it comes out to an extra $0.04 per round
 - For a 45-70 load of 65 grains, it comes out to an increase of $0.047 per round.

[Ranch 13]

Mathematicall screw up maybe, but still the added 5$ per case brings the price on a case of powder up 125$, that a person may or may not need to spend, especially if not partcipating in serious matches.
 That 125$ saved on the case of powder will bring in over 60lbs of certified alloy, which will go along way towards casting match grade bullets.

[Dastardly Tom]

I'm going to shoot some of the Goex FFg I have up but next powder order I'll pick up some express & cartridge' to check them out.
I have to order as nobody I know of & I think I've called every shop in the county sells black powder.

[Ranch 13]

Tom check and see where those guys at Pala get their powder from. Also look on Goex's web there used to be a distributor there in Socal.
 Most of the time if you order your powder from Grafs in less than case lots it'll come to the door cheaper than from Powder Inc.

[Montana Slim]

Goex Express? A lot of the high-roller type shooters I know of shoot Swiss exclusively.

I've managed to tweak powder charge, compression, etc to make any of the bargain black powders I've tried give acceptable (to me) accuracy/velocity...but it depends on what distance you need, as well as your required accuracy and tradeoffs your willing to make between velocity, accuracy & powder fouling. BTW, I FL size, drop-tube & pre-compress before seating the bullet, then ligth crimp (just to straighten the bell. Works well in my rifle for buffalo matches out to 500 yds.

Regards,
Slim