Delmonico's Hobby Lobby felt wads

[Tangle Eye]

Hey Del - I just made up a bunch of those Hobby Lobby felt wads dipped in lube you were talkiin about. You sure can get a lot of .45 caliber wads out of one sheet of that stuff! I guess I couldn't stand it any longer - I had to start messing around with my rifle load again. Changing the wad to the felt Hobby Lobby wad instead of just a grease cookie and card.  Right now I'm compressing the powder and using a card wad, 2 Hobby Lobby lube wads, and a newspaper card behind the bullet.  I may change to just one Hobby Lobby wad and compress the powder less.  We'll see next time I get to the range.

[Capt Henry]

Tangle Eye

Why are you using felt lube wads? The reason I ask is that most bullets that are designed for black powder will normally carry enough lube. The lube wad would work well on paper patch bullets but I don't see their value on a lubed bullet.
Of course I have been wrong before 

Rolland

[Tangle Eye]

Well Capt - I just want to be sure I have plenty of lube so the fouling stays soft and doesn't screw up the accuracy. I shoot a Lyman Postell bullet and it does carry a good bit of lube.  But, even here in the south, on a dry day the residue in the barrel is pretty dry and hard without a grease cookie or something to carry more lube. I don't really have access to a long range (over 500 yards) right now, but I like to pretend I do.  From what the BPCR shooters write (taken with a grain of salt) moisture content is important for shot after shot consistency without wiping the bore often.  Anyway - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Now - for the deal about 2 felt wads.  That was sort of a screw up.  I miscalculated the amount of powder compression and ended up compressing it a bit too much in 10 sample loads I was makin. So - I just put another felt wad in and the powder/wad column was the right height for the bullet seating depth I wanted.  Actually, I fired these today and they worked fine.  No need for THAT much lube though.

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[Delmonico]

When I did that, I ended up being able to push about 99% of the fouling out with 1 dry patch.  Something that was good got better and I only lost 2 grains of powder in the load.  I use the
RCBS-500-BPS.  With the Lyman 447122 I leave the wad out cause I want all the powder I can get in the case.

[Capt Henry]

Tangle Eye

What kind of accuracy are you getting using the felt wad? Its the end result we want after all.

I know it works well with paper patch as long as it does not stick to the base of the bullet. Guess there would be no reason it would not work with a lubed bullet.  
I don't know what part of the south you are at, but in Arizona in the summer we have negative humidity and dry fouling can be a real problem. Thats why I have decided to go with the Texas bore pigs. I am going out tomorrow and do some range work, its rained this past week so we do have some humidity guess I will find out how things go.

[Uncle Eph]

I know this is most likely a dumb question; but you guys are using your blow tube between shots?

[Delmonico]

Nuther thought here, course this is a friendly exchange of information, I would not want any one designing new moulds to stop, the world will never have to many bullet designs.


But I bought my RCBS mould in Dec 95, it was being toughted as the latest design.  I had the felt wad in place in my loads by April havin' looked at supplies being sold, including a comerical version of the same.  I liked what it did and the accuracy was better than the Pedersoli sights will let me do.  (I can tell with my groups, there is minor slop in the sights)  I right now am doing it for my own enjoyment, but I lust afer a better set of sights, a new pickup, plenty of money for gas and the time to be serious, but It won't happen fer at least a couple of years.

Now folks are designing bullets with big lube grooves and everyone says the work great, but they are longer and take up powder space.  So I won't buy a new mould to do what I am doing fine now.  I also wonder how easy these new moulds with the larger grooves are to keep the casting as consistent as I want it.  When a 500 gr big lube bullet comes out (don't want no 405 gr, sorry) Will it be able to keep most of the bullets in the not less than a 1/4 gr standard my RCBS mould turns out and will they need more than 2 grs of powder removed to be able to seat.

Just thoughts of someone who is curious.  

Uncle, I've tried one they help, but with the felt wad keeping things moist, it didn't seem to do as much good as before.  Myself I most likely clean more than most think they want to, but I can clean in a little over 30 seconds if I have my stuff sitting there.

Just for fun I shot it in the State Games in 95 in the 200 yard benchrest class, stock heavy weight.  The guys with their heavy factory varnint rifles bout pooped when I showed up with that.  (They thought the 99 Save that had beat most of them in the light weight class was some fluke in guess. )  Well they wondered how I would fire 20 rounds plus sighters in 30 minutes and maintain accuracy.  26 minutes later I was done cleaned every three rounds and finished in the middle.  Now if I'd just had one of them new-fangled tellyscope sights like the rest of them they'd a looked silly.  Course I think any of them that finshed below me looked silly.

[Tangle Eye]

Let see here now....who asked what question and said what?  I love a lively discussion!

Capt - I can't even begin to speak for accuracy.  I just started trying the felt/lube wads this afternoon and only fired 5 rounds of it in two different rifles.  I had also changed the seating depth of the cartridge so who knows. For what its worth I shot MOA groups 3 shot groups with both rifles. 5 shot groups spread out to 2 MOA.  Bear in mind this was a generic load not intended for nor tested for either rifle.  I know one of them (Browning BPCR) can shoot MOA. The other rifle was a new Remington Rolling Block so I have no idea what its even capable of yet. 

For reasons both psychological (means I'm nuts) and possibly real I'm about to switch to 1.5fg Swiss in the .45-70 and see how that does.  It sure seems popular among the long range fraternity.  Right now I'm using 60gr of 3fg Swiss -- don't ask why in a .45-70, I'm not even sure myself.

So - I'm developing a new load for each rifle and trying the felt wads is a part of that.  I think I'll probably use them though because, like Del said above, I can push a dry patch through every 5 shots or so and most of the fouling is gone. 

Eph - I own a blow tube. Don't think I've used it but once. I may be wrong but with a bunch of lube I think the fouling is soft enough. It sure pushes out easy enough. I read an article by somebody (Dave Gullo or the SPG guy I think) about how to use a blow tube the right way.  Got kinda complicated when he talked about too much breath and moisture in the barrel -- I just don't do it.

[Uncle Eph]

my 45 caliber rifles all have at least 32 inch tubes and I mainly shoot 530 grn Postell bullet 20:1 and I use a homemade pan lube of toilet rings and tallow (beef or venison) with a shot of Ballistol for good measure and most of the time I only use my blow tube between shots, I think the trick with the tube is: the shorter the better and I always have a shot off my water bottle before I blow.

I will sometimes wet wipe between shots if it really hot and depending on the type of match I am shooting.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Great discussion, pards. Thanks. 

Slim

[Delmonico]

The reason I don't use a blow tube more is that it takes about the same amount of time to run that patch down it.  The patch removes most of the fouling so it's gone from the barrel.  Even with a soft fouling it's got to damage the bullet a little bit. 

I get real close most of the time to m.o.a. I think my Pedersoli sights need replaced before I can do better. 

I don't remember if I've mentioned it, but I carry my patches in 2 of those little brown yeast jars (Ok, I'm a cook)  I fill both with white flannel patches and I pour all the windshield wiper fluid the patches will absorb in on jar, the other is kept dry. 

The windshield fluid evaporates quicker than other solvents because of the alcohol in it.  The quicker it evaporates the more it cools the barrel. You can just run several throungh on a hot day and get it cooled quickly if desired.  It is cheap, 99 cents a gallon when on sale.  And it will not freeze like a lot of black powder cleaners.  This can be important if you live up north and hunt with yer gun. 

[Singing Bear]

Del, Tangle Eye, I don't shoot long range yet, but interested in felt wads.  Musta missed something earlier about these wads so what's the scoop on Hobby Lobby?  Are they the only hobby store that sells the "proper" size felt for wads?  Finding the proper felt for wads, here, is impossible so any leads on a source would be greatly appreciated.   

[Uncle Eph]

if I am shooting a match standing or sitting,  like the "Q" at Forsyth I use my blow tube if I am shooting prone I tend to sometimes use a rod with a wet patch, matter of fact I don't remember in all the years that I shot the "Q" that I have ever seen anyone use a rod between shots.

this last summer I was shooting at a range off sandbags at 200 yards and it was up in the nineties and to prove a point to a modern shooter I shot 10 rounds just useing the blow tube with him spotting and I kept all 10 in the black.  I had already fired at least 60 rounds earlier and had only wet wiped the barrel once when the range was cold.

now here is a trick question for you folks: why do we use wads anyway?

[Delmonico]

Singin Bear, this is just the cheap polyester felt like Sunday School teachers use for their felt boards, any craft store including W-Mart seems to carry it.  The last one  bought was like 25 cents a sheet.  Exact color is optional.  I cut these with a 45 caliber wad cutter and dip them in my mix of 50/50 deer tallow/beeswax, I then sandwich them between to milk carton wads.

Uncle Eph,  I have read, don't know if it is true, but anyway the wad is to protect the base of the bullet from being damaged by the unburned powder in front being pushed into it's base, the same as a gas check on some smokeless loads.  Even though the powder burns hot, the time is not long enough to melt the base like most folks think.   I tried a few with out the wad, the acaruccy was not real bad at all but not as good as with just a milk carton wad.  This was tried with the 457122..

[El Peludo]

Del,

Have you noticed any odd type of residue from the polyester material?  Seems to me it would melt, and leave some sort of stuff like a plastic wad in a shotshell does.  'Course, with it bein' sandwiched between two cardboard wads, maybe not.  ?-??

[Delmonico]

No residue in the barrel, wads from down range are unburned and unmelted.

[Uncle Eph]

right you are Del, the wad is there to protect the base of the bullet and to contain the exploding gases, so if that is the case why bother with anything more then a simple dry fiber wad.

I want things simple when I am on the line; blow tube, enough ammo to shoot, my water bottle, and my sticks, if I set up in some cow pasture I don't want to worry about my rod laying in a cow pie or jars of patches getting broken, and I don't want to crowd the shooter next to me with my range box.  Now I am talking mainly about gong and buffalo matches, sillywets and LR paper is a different critter all together.

here is a trick that I just thought of and as soon as I am thur pecking this I am going to go to my gun room and fiddle with, and that is draping my bore snake over my shooting sticks in such away that it will pad my barrel while shooting but still be easy to run thur the barrel if I feel the need.

I will report back to you folks on that one.

[Singing Bear]

Thanks Del!    Shucks, I thought maybe these were "special" by way of being thicker and denser.  Been using the crafts stuff for years in my c&b by glueing 2 together for a thicker wad.

[Uncle Eph]

well boys, the bore snake idea was a dumb one (just like I figgered) but, I did make me a set of shootin' sticks with speedolope hooves on them just like the ol' boy in "Lonesome Dove" had.

[Marvin Hughes]

I've shot a good number of felt wads, and never noticed anything even remotely looking like melted polyester.  I don't believe the retention time in the barrel is near long enough to do much damage to the felt from the heat.