Help with identification

[mpaczyns]

Am currently an active duty army cavalryman.  Walked into the gun library at my local cabellas the other day and found an old cavalry gun.  Bit of an impulse purchase, but just had to have it.  I'm trying to learn more about it and would love to fire it one time if possible.  It is a model ???1965 1865 serial number 1601.  Has a 20 inch barrel.  On upper side of the receiver it has additional markings that I can partially read.  I will mark ##s for characters I cannot read.  It is says spencer repeat##, rifle company.  Boston ###, pat'd march, ####.  Looked at the bolt face and confirmed that it has no firing pin in the center.  It has a bar that would strike the round on the extreme right hand side of the shell case.

Any info on the gun would be great.  Any info on ammo would be beter.

thanks

Maj Mark Paczynski

 

[Two Flints]

Hi Major Mark,

Photos of your Spencer Carbine would be nice to see. 

And now for my very "wordy" disclaimer:

Some time ago I acquired the four volume set of the Springfield Research Service (SRS) Serial Numbers of U.S. Martial Arms. I purchased the set so I could help SSS members identify which unit their original Spencer Carbine or rifle was issued or assigned to during, and perhaps, after the Civil War.

Unfortunately, not all the Spencer serial numbers are listed in the four volume set I own. And, there are gaps between indicated serial numbers. This paragraph is a DISCLAIMER of sorts. As a courtesy to SSS members, I am happy to reveal to you the information I have regarding the serial number of your Spencer carbine or rifle. But, please remember, I am just regurgitating what I read in my SRS volumes with some "unscientific conjecture" on my part . What I do is the following: I take your Spencer serial number and try to place it in between the two closest serial numbers to yours listed in my SRS volume. In most cases, if the serial numbers for the Spencer before and after your own serial number were issued to the same unit, I assume your Spencer went to the same unit. Or, if your Spencer serial number is very, very close to another Spencer serial number, I assume your Spencer went to the same unit. I call this the “Two Flints guesstimation”  .  I’m guessing and estimating at the same time on what I believe to be correct information based upon the information I find in my four volume set of SRS.  And that is the best that I can do for you.

Having written all the above, the best information I can give you is that your Spencer carbine serial # 1601 may have been issued or re-issued to a member of Company C, 19th Pennsylvania Volunteer Cavalry, on or about January 10, 1865.

Hope this helps and look fdorward to you joining SSS

Two Flints

[Arizona Trooper]

Your Model 1865 Spencer Carbine is chambered for 56-50 rimfire ammo. That round hasn't been loaded in almost a century and probably wouldn't go off if you found any. Most of us convert to centerfire by replacing the rimfire breechblock with a modern made conversion block. If you reload, cases, bullet molds and dies are available, or you can cut down 50-70 cases. There are a couple places loading centerfire 56-50 ammo, but it is usually made for the Italian reproductions, so it won't always shoot well in originals (due to bore size variation) or extract reliably. Search through the old posts here and you'll find a wealth of information on the centerfire conversion. Be sure you have your Spencer checked by a gunsmith that specializes in antiques before shooting it. 

Your serial number is unusually low for an M-1865 carbine. Most of the first 2000 are rifles. Your carbine would have been delivered around the end of March, 1865. It is generally believed that M-1865s didn't make it to the field before Lee's surrender in April. However, the M-1865s were very much anticipated, so the first ones may have been issued in late March. They did see service in Texas during the buildup in mid-1865 to prevent a southern invasion via Mexico, and in the US regular cavalry until being replaced by Trapdoor Springfield carbines in 1873-'75. A lot of them were sold to France for the Franco-Prussian War, and found their way back to the US afterward.

Spencers are great fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate with the right ammo, and within about 200 yards. Enjoy your piece of history!

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[Herbert]

you may have one of the early hybrid 1865s measure the barell if it is 22 inches it is a hybred one and much scarcer,you may have got lucky

[dsaylor]

Just fishin' but from what I've read here, can I surmise that my Model 1865 Spencer, SN#1793, would fit into the same "niche" as Major Marks' Spencer?

I know this is an old post but I've been trying to locate information regarding my Spencer.

Regards,

d

[Blair]

dsaylor,

Unfortunately there is not much SS# info available on the Spencer or Burnside contract M-1865 models.
These come out shortly after Wars end. Some of this comes from Government changes and/or alterations in the previous M-1860 models.
Barrel length from 22 inches to 20 inches, caliber change from 56-56 to either 56-50 Springfield or the Spencer designed 56-52, addition of the Stapler cutoff to allow for single loading, and the spring loaded knife extractor, all during the development stages.
These types of Governmental changes/alterations almost caused the Burnside Co. to loose their contract because they were falling behind the original proposed delivery date.
Both Spencer and Burnside started a new SS# range with #01 on the M-1865's.
Considering Burnside made and delivered something just over 34,500 Spencer type arms between April and October of 1865. is only slightly amazing! Spencer produced 18,959 (+or-) during the same time period.
My best,
Blair