Dirty Dan Dawkins...the cap'n ball outlaw

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

I am new to CAS and have really gained a multitude of wealth from this site. Being new to the world of cowboy action this is such a great benefit for me. Thanks to all who participate and help out the ignorant like myself.
I shoot with the Mule Camp Cowboys in Covington ,GA. These guys are great! The Southeast regional on Memorial day weekend was the first big match I have been to, unbelievable!!!! Evil Roy, Lead Dispencer, Ozark Az, Holy Terror to name a few, all great shots, a pleasure to watch. The vendors all had lots to offer as well. And the entertainment was fantastic. Jim( or is it Joe) Bowman was my favorite. At 81 still quite a hand with a gun and quite a gentleman.
 This activity affords me to step into another frame of mind...and time....now I just can't wait til August and my 2 week trip to Wyoming ( 7 days on a pack trip) YEEHAW!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways.... I do have one topic to address......I had the opportunity to shoot a High Wall of my bud Rebel Icon. Ok, so now I am hooked. I am looking at some reproductions and Italian is my only option. I am looking at Pedersoli. I have narrowed it down to that. I might hunt, but in all likelihood do just target, possibly silhouette. I am leaning towards the 1874 long range target model. It comes with a tunnel with inserts and creedmore, also built by Pedersoli. I know there are better sights, but call me a glutton for punishment , I just would like to have as close, now matter how crude, of a setup as in the old west. A tunnel being my only luxury...astygmatism. I am thinking maybe 45-90, just in case I do silhouettes, but how about 45-70? What kind of range  and accuracy can I get in these two rounds with a long range sight? 600 yard class will probably be my limit ( no abundance of yardage in Ga. Too hilly and too many trees) Will the 45-70 suffice for elk ,moose and black bear? I have seen these guns on several sites under different part numbers per manufacturer. Their  specs are the same, but are they the same?Are all importers alike? Do the importers spec their models differently form other importers or is a Pedersoli a Pedersoli, no matter where ya buy it?  How about Dixie gunworks? I found a great price on the model mentioned above in 45-90. Are their Pedersoli's of a good quality and how's there service?( As well as Taylor's, I have dealt with Cimarron and like those guys in Texas).
Well I guess that'll do. Sorry for being so long winded and thanks for any info you can share.

[Bristow Kid]

Dirty Dan,

If your seriously looking for and old Buffalo gun.  You should read "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" by Mike Ventrino.  Its a very good book with lots of informstion.  A .45-70 is big enough to take any game animal in the United States plus many other places.  I personally have a Pedersoli Rolling Block replica(bought used from a pard)  that I love to shoot its chambered in .45-70.  I personally have hit a Ram silhouette at 500 + yards with it and it will shoot much farther.  From what I know about the Pedersoli's they are all good guns of fine quality.  But like I mentioned before I would get that book its a wealth of information and should help you decided.  Go to www.brownells.com and look up stock number 7K24A10.  Thats the book its $30 plus shipping but well worth it.

Bristow Kid

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Thanks I'll do that. I  have a lot of technical questions that need to be addressed as well. mainly about actions. I was able to hold some of the Sharp's replicas vendors had at Mule Camp. They were just awesome to hold, but I did like my bud Rebel's High wall and I have examined some Springfield trapdoors. But ya know all these action types are still foriegn to me. Not really sure about the differences in strength quality and barrells. I would hope gunmaking technology has advanced enough in the past hundred odd years to of made them better than the originals. So, I'll defintely order that book.....Who knows, it could very well  lead me to a gun style I have not even considered, or even knew about, but much more suited for me.

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[Brazos_Jack]

Dan,

Regardless of action type, you will be happiest with a shotgun butt, pistol grip stock and set (preferably double set) triggers. The Winchester Highwall was the best rifle of the period by a great margin. Lightestest action, fast lock time, strongest, best ability to seat stubborn cartridge, best ability to extract a stubborn cartridge. If you load quality ammo with black powder or equivelent pressure smokeless loads, then only issues 1 & 2 matter.

Lock time is only really an issue in offhand shooting but many good offhand scores can be shot with Sharps 1874 of Rolling Blocks if you do your part, in spite of thier slow lock time.

Action weight means you can put a heavier barrel on a Highwall than others and still stay under any weight limits, but again, many win BPCR silhouette matches with legal weight Sharps or Rollers.

Stay away from trap doors and others that can't be cleaned from the breach.

The rifles seen most in serious silhouette competition are Sharps '74, Highwalls, Rolling Blocks, and Stevens 44-1/2.

For what you want to do 45-70 is better than 45-90 in a number of ways. It's a better ballistic balance with less recoil for matches up to 600 yds and components and ammo are way easier to come by.

Pedersoli barrels are great, they compete with the best semi custom guns from Shiloh, C Sharps etc.

Pedersoli currently makes Sharps and Rollers, but is just starting to plan for it's production of a highwall. Uberti makes highwalls, but I haven't seen them advertize one with the right features as I outlined at the beginning of this post. C. Sharps, Meacham, and Ballard make excellent, though expensive, highwalls. Actually the C. Sharps is not priced too high, though more than Uberti.

I started with a C. Sharps highwall. It's the easiest gun to shoot well that you can imagine. However, I just couldn't see going through life without a Sharps, so I bought a Pedersoli Sharps in spite of any design limitations the Sharps has. I'm sure that sooner or later I'll have to have a Rolling Block too.

For serious silhouette competition the only front sight to consider is the one Steve Baldwin makes in Oklahoma City. If you don't have a spirit level beyond 200 yards you are seriously handicaped. Any other spirit level front sight will sooner or later end up reflecting a blinding beam of sunlight directly into your eyes as you are about to shoot, as I found out the hard way at a match in Arcadia, Oklahoma a few years back.

For combination hunting and less formal/shorter range target shooting a replica of a Beach combination front sight might be what you want.

The best competition rear sights are the Soules from MVA, Baldwin, and a few other US makers. The Pedersoli's are a little crude. The earlier style sights with simple vernier windage adjustment are harder to use, but more accurate to the buffalo harvest period. I don't think the Soule came along until the mid to late 1880's.

Most parctical hunting tang sight is probably a Marble's.

Hope this helps,

Brazos Jack AKA Lost in Arabia

[TAkaho kid]

You can't go wrong with either 45-70 or 45-90.
However if your shooting smokeless thats a diffrent story. While the 45-90's bigger case capacity gives it clear advantage over the 45-70 when loaded with BP it looses that advantage when loaded with smokeless.

With that said, either cartridge will perform wonderful out to 1000 yrds given careful loads and good sights and of course a shooter doing his job correctly. However I would stick with the heavy weight bullets beyond 200. i.e. 500 gr.

As for hunting elk etc. check out the monster elk on Republic's front page. It was shot with a 45-70-405 from a 1886.
www.republicmetallic.com

There is a smaller one their rifle ammunition page that was taken with a 45-70-550 paper patch load

If don't have it already get a copy of Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" its a darn good read.

45-70, 45-90 you wont be disapointed with either.

Best Regards,

T.K.