BP fouling in '73

[PJ Hardtack]

I put some BP rds through my 1 of 1,000 yesterday. Great fun and good accuracy ay 25 yds off hand! Shot 'centre' as opposed to a little off as it does with smokeless.

I started out with smokeless loads - 13 grs 2400 and the same bullet as the BP loads. Accuracy was quite acceptable off hand.

Same with the BP loads, but after 20 rds or so, the accuracy dropped off. This has not been a problem with my '66 carbine using the same load - 33 grs FFg and Lyman 427666 sized .429 and SPG lubed.

I went back to the 2400 load (5 rds) and it too grouped poorly. Wha' happened ... ?

When I got home, I checked the barrel and it looked like I had been shooting only smokeless. It cleaned up pretty quickly with no signs of leading.

How many rds do you guys get with your '73's before fouling becomes an issue? I've only put 10 rds of BP through my 24" Henry so I don't know how it would have fared with more.

I think the 24" barrel of my '73 is telling me it wants more bullet lube in the form of a grease cookie.

[58cal]

Hey there. I had that problem once with my 429667 mold and the answer was not enough SPG.
I needed to run the bullet through the lubrisizer with 2-3 strokes.
Fill in those grease grooves! Should shoot at least 25rounds accurately.

Also, is your bullet sized to the correct diameter?

Cheers!

58Cal

[PJ Hardtack]

My Henry is happy with .427, .429 and .430. The '66 has no preference between .429 and .430 using smokeless or BP.

I haven't slugged the bore of the '73 rifle, but I presume that it's the standard Uberti .430.

In thinking on it, when I'm shooting the '66 in a ten stage match, I'll pull a bore snake thru' the barrel a couple of times at lunch break. That might be the difference, but that's still about 30 rds and no issues.

However, thinking on it again, it's damn hard to miss a 16" x 16" SASS target at match distances.

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[Lucky R. K.]

How many rds do you guys get with your '73's before fouling becomes an issue? I've only put 10 rds of BP through my 24" Henry so I don't know how it would have fared with more.

I think the 24" barrel of my '73 is telling me it wants more bullet lube in the form of a grease cookie.

I shoot a Uberti '73 in 45 Colt with a 250 grain Big Lube bullet,  a full case of 2FF Goex powder, and my home made lube. I can usually shoot six stages without any attention to the rifle.  I think the secret is plenty of lube and  and a charge big enough to seal the chamber at ignition.  Most bullets do not have grease grooves that will carry enough lube and squib loads will not provide the force to seal the chamber.

I don't remember the last time I had to clean my rifle during a match

Lucky

[Cliff Fendley]

Barrel length definitely makes a difference. The difference from the 24 inch barrel and carbine is your problem.

You need more lube or cleaner powder or both.

[PJ Hardtack]

Thirty-three grs of FFg is not a 'squib' load, and I can't get more lube into grooves that won't hold any more.

A grease cookie seems the only viable option other than a 'big lube' bullet. Where do I buy one?

I think the secret is plenty of lube and  and a charge big enough to seal the chamber at ignition.  Most bullets do not have grease grooves that will carry enough lube and squib loads will not provide the force to seal the chamber.Lucky

[58cal]

Hey there, in my previous post I mentioned filling the grease grooves for good accuracy.

This was with a Uberti Henry, 32 gr 2f Swiss or 29 gr 3f goex
Spg or lens lube. Lyman 429667 bullet. I run it through two or three times. No big effort.
The accuracy was less than 4 inches at fifty yards for at least 25 rounds, no cleaning, off the bench.

Check out that bullet on the Internet. I don't know how much lube it holds but it's enough.
I use lead that is 11 or higher for hardness.
Have used 100pc hardball and 50/50 hardball/pure. Both work.

My barrel slugged at 429 so I size to 429 or 430.

58cal.

[Lucky R. K.]

Thirty-three grs of FFg is not a 'squib' load, and I can't get more lube into grooves that won't hold any more.

A grease cookie seems the only viable option other than a 'big lube' bullet. Where do I buy one?

Check out Dick Dastardly and/or Big Lube bullets on the internet.  He sells bullet moulds that cast several sizes of bullets with huge grease grooves. With a good BP lube you can shoot a complete match without fouling problems.

Note to DD: Send money.

Lucky

[PJ Hardtack]

I may be missing something here, but once a bullet has passed thru' my sizer/luber, the grease grooves are filled. Running them thru' again isn't going to pack any more into them. Excessive pressure on the SPG lube (any lube) simply means you get extruded lube to mess things up.

My DC Lyman 427666 mould produces bullets with one fairly wide grease groove. I've got a Lee DC RN/200 gr mould with two grease grooves. I think I'll try BP with some of them and see if it improves the situation.

But - it sure won't hurt to have one of DD's moulds either!

[Cliff Fendley]

A grease cookie seems the only viable option other than a 'big lube' bullet.

or a cleaner powder, you didn't see where you say what black powder your using.

The Big Lube bullets are the ticket, they will allow you to shoot all day with the 24 inch barrel with any decent powder. I shoot the MAV44 sized to 429 and cant tell the difference from the first few shots to 60 shots later.

[PJ Hardtack]

Goex FFg. Happen to have several lbs of it on hand. My FFFG Goex I save for my cap & ball guns.

Just did some surfing on the Big Lube bullet moulds ..... one 'expert' is of the opinion that the .44/200 gr will not carry well for 'long range'. Long range for my .44's is 200 yds with open sights.

Anyone want to dispute this 'expert's' claim?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Goex has the old Enysford powder which is getting reports about being cleaner . And the best powder is Swiss for loading in the 44wcf . This powder is almost like shooting smokeless .

[Blackpowder Burn]

You can also try the Accurate Molds (www.accurate molds) 43-215C bullet.  Either that one or the Dick Dastardly Big Lube will run indefinitely before cleaning the barrel.  I shoot a 24" barrel Uberti '73 and a 24" barrel Pedersoli Lightning and can shoot a 3-day match without cleaning the barrel - no problems.

[PJ Hardtack]

Looks like I know what my next mould purchase will be .....  ;>)

[The Swede]

Couldn't help but mention that PJ, and myself for that matter live up here in the Dominion Of Canada. Swiss, and the other powder mentioned are near impossible to find up here in the Great White North. Lube, as mentioned is the answer (more of it that is).

Lots of great advice here though!

Swede

[Blackpowder Burn]

I also shoot standard Goex FFg and FFFg powder, with no issues with either of these bullets.

[Lucky R. K.]

I also shoot standard Goex FFg and FFFg powder, with no issues with either of these bullets.

I shoot the cheapest powder I can find for CAS. Recently that has been Goex.  I use 2F in my '73 and shotgun and 3F in my pistols (either C & B or  cartridge).  It shoots dirtier that Swiss but then again, everything does.

If do not want fouling problems during a match just make sure the round seals the chamber when it goes off and put plenty of lube thru the barrel.  Bullets designed for smokeless powder will not carry enough lube to control fouling.

Lucky

[Cliff Fendley]

Goex FFg. Happen to have several lbs of it on hand. My FFFG Goex I save for my cap & ball guns.

Just did some surfing on the Big Lube bullet moulds ..... one 'expert' is of the opinion that the .44/200 gr will not carry well for 'long range'. Long range for my .44's is 200 yds with open sights.

Anyone want to dispute this 'expert's' claim?

I had heard that claim and I suppose it could be true for "real" long range but the 200 yards you speak of is no problem at all.

I shot the mav44 in my Navy Arms Henry at the NCOWS Eastern Regional pistol caliber long range last fall and it was spot on. If those bullets tumble they sure as heck do it consistent. That distance was 217 yards according to the laser rangefinders.

I am going to order an Accurate molds 43-215C which is like a big lube version of the 427098 Lyman. I have tried a few of those bullets and while I can't tell in the ranges we are talking about that they shoot any better than the mav44, the 215C is more pointy and longer and should have a better ballistic coefficient.

I'll probable continue to use the mav44 for main match CAS since it packs the most lube.

[PJ Hardtack]

if God had intended men to shoot the 44-40 past 200 yds, He wouldn't have invented the 45-70 .... ;>)

[Cliff Fendley]

if God had intended men to shoot the 44-40 past 200 yds, He wouldn't have invented the 45-70 .... ;>)

I understand completely but 200 yards in silhouette shooting is not considered 'long range' so it could mean that any reports of the big lubes not shooting well at long range were talking about a much farther distance.

You asked and I do have first hand experience with the MAV 44 at slightly over 200 but not beyond that. It shoots great in my gun at that distance but how much farther I can't say.

As I said I'm ordering a 43-215C from Accurate, even though the big lubes have done well I'm always trying other things and feel like for the long range the 215C should be better. Mainly because of it's nose profile and length.

W44WCF has extended experience with the 215C and other similar versions based on the original 427098 Lyman bullet and he has shot them much farther distances with excellent results. Maybe he will see this and chime in with his experiences. You can do a search on this forum and find plenty of info on these bullets and range results.

I honestly think from my experience with both bullets, at the ranges you are talking about, either the MAV dutchman or the Accurate 43-215C will serve you well and solve your fouling issue.