348 Win vs 50 AK cases?

[Dirty Brass]

I've been trying to work up some loads of 777 vs Pyrodex RS and RS Select. I reformed both cases mentioned above, and I notice that the 50 AK holds quite a few more grains of powder than the 348 Win. See pictures below.  It's been un-nerving 'cause my 60 gr. spout fills the 348 cases to near the top, and the 50 AK cases are much lower level with 60 gr. In either case, no way can I stuff 75 gr. into either case and seat a bullet. This particular powder shown if Select RS, which is supposed to laod volume for volume with BP. Is this normal with these cases? Does anybody know? Has anyone else tried both cases, and tried to get 75 gr. into them? Looks like a fair amount of compression already with the 348 cases at 60 gr. The 50 AK obviously has room for more powder and still will compress OK. Any thoughts or feedback is appreciated - I know there are a lot of 45/75 guns out these now! 

Could this 60 gr. spout be off that much? I tried a 30 gr. spout x two and it was pretty close to filling the 60 gr. one - within 1/6" or so......  My son has my graduated measure - maybe I'll run to the store and get another one if they have any.

[ndnchf]

Have all cases been fireformed yet?  if not ,the capacity may grow after the first firing.  Since the .348 and .50AK start out different shapes, its not unusual for their capacity after initial forming to vary.  Also brass thickness, and thus capacity vary from one manufacturer to another.

I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle about getting 75gr into the case.  The old balloon head cases had greater capacity than modern solid head cases.  After fireforming and first resizing, determine what the ideal capacity of your cases are and go with it.  If it still varies between the .348 and .50AK, then just keep each grouped and loaded together.   

[Mad Dog Jack]

Using a drop tube of , say, 18" might get a little more powder in, you did not say whether or not you used one. The BPCR shooters use them, gives more uniform powder density and accuracy.
But we never get the same amount of powder as in the old days, as ndnchf says

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[Dirty Brass]

Good points fellas - after I signed off I did a little more thinking too. The 348 cases I'm loading now haven't been fire formed yet, where the 50 AK cases have been shot at least once. That is probably one good reason for the big difference. I also thought about the older balloon cases that no doubt held more powder. I haven't used a drop tube - that would get a little more in. My concern was more about the difference in volumes than getting in 75 full gr. of powder. This all came about because I've been experimenting with Triple Seven and working up reduced loads as recommended. That powder seems to give very inconsistent loads if weighing out the powder for setting up the powder thrower - variances as much as .8 gr. per drop.  I also found that the amount of T7 was almost 13 gr. different than the 15% reduced load volume, which got me concerned. Then I noticed the fact that no matter what powder I used, none came close to the specified volume recommendation by the loading manuals and manufacturers. I'm keeping a written log of what I'm doing, so I'll be checking once fired and twice fired cases, by manufacturer, to see any gain in volumes.

I have fired about 100 cartridges from my 45/75, both in smokeless and triple seven, and they all worked well and functioned fine, with no sign of over-stressing the gun. My BP sub loads were all close to 50.0 gr. of T7. That is well below the 15% reduced load of 63.75, so no worries. Like you said - that might go up as cases are fired more and stretch into the correct chamber shape. All this relates to the bottleneck cases for sure - as my 45/60 seemed a lot easier to get a consistent load for. 

As always, thanks for the feedback.

[ndnchf]

I'm not big on using subs, I really prefer holy black.  That being said, I did try some American Pioneer Powder (APP) .50-95 loads in my '76.  They worked pretty well, but I've only tried it once so far.  That stuff shoots real clean, smokes a lot and you don't have to be concerned with over stressing anything, including your shoulder 

I use a 36" drop tube in all my loadings, it makes a big difference in capacity and consistency.

[larryo_1]

Here I go with my two bits again.  I use both 50AK and 348 brass in my 45-75.  One load that really put a knot in my knickers was 76 grains of Swiss1½ under the 350 grain bullet.  Besides alot of bang and smoke, it had a pretty good recoil.  This load was in both brands of brass.  I haven't had a chance to chrono it yet but it is damn accurate.  When I put this much in, I also put a card on top of the powder.  I didn't use a drop tube but rather just clinked the side of the case with a pencil to get the powder down.  The distance left over, on both cases, was damn near the same.  But--these cases have been used several times so I suppose that the capacity is pretty much the same.  You want to check on case capacities, put a piece of tape over the flash hole and weigh the case then fill it with water and weigh it again.  There is a noticeable difference in capacities between just a fire formed case, a used case and a new case.  I don't know if any of this blab is worth paying attention to but maybe it may help a bit.  By the way, that 76 grain load was one that was measured out of an original factory loading instead of the 75 grain load so thought I'd give it a try WOW.

[Dirty Brass]

Thanks Larryo_1. You can "blab"anytime to feel the urge - I've read some of your posts and appreciate them. In fact I followed a some of yours and Hobies suggestions when choosing and reforming my cases.

I'm pretty sure (99%) my findings were due to new unfired 348 cases. I looked over the cases and pics, and it is obvious the 50 AK cases are expanded to a much greater degree, thus holding more powder. None of my cases have been fired more than once each, and this last lot contained once fired 50 AK vs. reformed but not fire-formed .348 cases. I learned a lesson, which is good. Learning something new each day is always a good thing!

I'll shoot these as they are loaded, and I have about 65 more .348 cases I'm going to fire-form next time out, just to get them expanded some. As much as I like shooting these rifles, I like to keep a good supply of loaded ammo on hand  My ultimate goal is to get one load that works well for hunting, and one load for just fun shooting (target). I've never used Swiss1½, but that sounds like a great load! Have you ever used 325 gr. bullets? That is what I've loaded all mine with - got 'em from BA.

Thanks everyone  for the input and replies.

[larryo_1]

Dirty Brass
Naw!  I started using 300 grain bullets as that was what I had alot of.  Then when I got some 350 grainers from BACO, I started using them and then I got my Hoch mold and there is where I is now.  I really like that Hoch mold.  Using the 20:1 alloy, it casts 350 every time.  A little lighter using the old time alloy of 16:1 but not enough to make any difference.  Besides, it is just plain fun to shoot either alloy.