12ga powder and wad compression?

[Mad Mucus]

After dumping ffg and seating a nitro card in a brass case, how much compression is required, 1/16-1/8"?
Should the 1/2" fibre wad be compressed before dumping in the shot?

Got everything to start reloading except the wads from CircleFly(in the mail)..... and a new Stoeger Deluxe coachgun, deposit down and awaiting a permit to aquire from Qld Police Weopons Licensing Branch. 

MM   

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I don't load brass shells but I do use Circle Fly wads in plastic STS hulls.

Despite the fact that I always recommend 1/16"-1/8" compression in a metallic cartridge, I doubt I am compressing the powder that much in my shotgun loads.

I dump in the powder, then seat a Circle Fly 1/8" card wad over it. I have a ten inch long piece of 5/8" wooden dowel rod that I use to 'compress' the powder. I pull the hull off my press and place the dowel against the card wad. Then I lean on it until I hear the powder crunch down inside the hull. I have never actually measured the amount of compression, but I doubt it is very much. Just until I hear the powder crunch*. Dunno how well you will hear it in a brass hull, but in a plastic hull I can hear it well enough. Then back onto the press to seat my 1/2" cushion wad. No, I do not compress that, that would defeat the purpose of the cushioning effect of the wad. I just drive it in with my MEC Jr and allow the handle to bottom, fully seating it against the card wad. Then I dump in the shot, and I top it off with a thin Circle Fly over powder shot. This last card is not completely necessary, the only reason I add it is that my particular load is a little bit light and does not completely fill the hull. If I formed my crimp without the over shot card I would get a slightly concave crimp with a hole in it. The card just levels out the crimp and keeps any shot from escaping.

You can use as much or as little of this information as you like for your brass hull loads.

*Safety Disclaimer*

When I lean on the dowel rod, it is pointing right at my chest. Be sure you have positioned the hull so the primer is not going to contact anything that might possibly cause the primer to fire. A remote possibility if at all possible, but I just wanted to let you know.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy MM,

The same amount of compression works for all brass hulls as for plastic hulls.  Simply set the compression so that the indicator reads around 80 pounds on a MEC 600 Jr. Mk-V loader and you're good to go.  FWIW, MEC now sells an all brass hull decapper and primer mod for their 600 Jr presses.  They even made me one for my 20ga all brass hulls.

So, regardless of the press or process you are using, the same amount of compression that works well in plastic hulls will work fine for all brass hulls.  You won't, however, be as able to measure compression in fractions of an inch but will do fine with pounds of compression.

That clear as mud now?

DD-DLoS

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[Noz]

I don't use quite as much pressure as DD. I set my old VERSAMEC for 40 pounds. They all go boom!

[Mako]

I don't use quite as much pressure as DD. I set my old VERSAMEC for 40 pounds. They all go boom!

Forgive me but if you want to be trechnically correct about it... the amount of compression is really dependent upon the load for star crimps.  Volume of shot, powder, wad and Compression sets the column height which in turn controls the crimp.  

If you have ever spent much time with serious clay shooting you will find ideal conventional smokeless loads by shot weight match wads to the propellant and hull.  Then there is a specified wad compression to set the column height to affect a perfect crimp.

The same is true with BP loads whether they use plastic or fiber wads.  You can adjust fiber wads and card heights to get the ideal column height, it is a bit trickier with plastic because they have been designed for a low volume propellant.  We are relegated to a couple of short compression zone wads with short petals for most of our loads.  Then it's just a matter of getting the volume of powder right to set the column height .  Or you can simply add some addtional shot until you get that perfect crimp.

Now if you are using roll crimps or brass hulls then you have a lot more lattitude.  If we are speaking about these two then I tend to agree with both Dick and Noz then.  Anywhere between 40 and 80 works well.  

~Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

Just to make sure we're on the same page here. .  .  I was talking about the amount of pressure I use on my over powder card.  I only seat my 1/2" lubed fiber wads firm enough for good contact and so that the compression squeezes out enough lube for a real good seal in the hull.

DD-DLoS

[Lucky R. K.]

Hey Dick,

I understood exactly what you were saying.  That is exactly the same way I load them.

Lucky 

[Mad Mucus]

Thanks..... I'll be be reloadin' Aussie brass with Tassie oak dowel and hand tools.

Cheers

[Montana Slim]

I use plastic shells + fibre wads.
I compress the overpowder wad with rather heavy compression....around 80 lbs.
Then seat the cushion with very light pressure. just touching the overpowder card.

As Mako points out, the sum of all your components needs to end up at the approximate height for the crimp to close snuggly.
Therefore you may or may not ned to compress your cushion wad, based on the rest of your recipie.

BTW, I use 80 grains of 2F gunpowder, overpowder, cushion and 1 1/8 oz of No. 7 1/2 shot.
This loads-out exactly the same for me using common Remington or Winchester low-brass hulls.

Regards,
Slim

[Wildcat Will]

Mad Mucus
I load brass shells, 12 and 10 gage and I do it all by hand.  I will drop my powder in and then the nitro card.  I use a dowel with a round wooden ball attached to the end.  I will push the card down with arm pressure and hear the compression.  I then put the lubed wad in with enough pressure to feel it seat against the nitro card.  Next I clean the top inside of the shell with alcohol to clean it and then place the shot in.  I use two over shot cards (probably one would work but if it aint broke don't fix it).  Those get pushed in until they feel snug.  I then seal the whole thing with a hot glue gun.  Been doing it that way for 4-5 years now and it has been working just great. 

Hope this helps.

[Pony Racer]

MM

My loading process mirrrors that of my smokey Pard Wildcat Will!

I do not do the alcohol swab during the process - only before (ie before I reprime the brass hull) if I think it needs it.

V/r

PR

[Fairshake]

Mako, The OP stated that he was using brass cases and not plastic. If you read up on the loading of brass shotgun hulls you will find where it is not a big thing with the wad pressure as it is in the loading of other types of hulls. I have always loaded my brass hulls by hand using a dowel rod for the seating of all wads. I have never had the first problem using this style of loading SG hulls.

[Mad Mucus]

Received CF wads in the mail today.

Spent 10mins on the phone with a very helpful chap at Weopons Licensing today, whom processed my permit on the spot, so I should have the new Stoeger in two weeks or so.

Thanks again for your input.

  MM