12Ga Shotgun wads (Plastic and Brass), what size hole punches do I need?

[fourfingersofdeath]

I want to experiment with home made wads. The Circle Fly wads are great, but why ship wads half way around the world when I don't have to? Interested in making wads for 44/40, 45Colt, 45/70, 12Ga (need 11Ga for the Magtec Brass cases I'm told).

[Dick Dastardly]

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/shotshellloads.html

Howdy Four Fingers,

Here's a web site that will help you with scattergun bore, choke and wad sizes.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

4 digits of doom;  Try the following;  These are for use with a mallet.

3/8 inch punch for .38-55

7/16 "    for .44

Cut off a range pick-up belted Mag case at the shoulder and chamfer.  Drill out the primer pocket to poke out the wads;  works for .45 rifle & pistol.  At one point I sized a .308 case with a .38 neck sizer for .38.  You might find a .35 Marlin or .358 Win case.

I have a 3/4 inch punch that drops wads at .777, which is ideal for Magtech 12 ga.  (there is some tolerance and you might have to pick and choose.

For drill press use;                    
If you have a lathe, or a friendly machinist, a punch for anything can be made out of tool steel and doesn't need to be hardened.
- start with stock at least 1/4" over your size.
- drill a 1/4" hole right through.
- drill or cut a hole in the business end just to the chosen size, about one inch deep.
- Relieve the hole inside the mouth to allow clearance for the cut wads.
- Trim down the outside and taper to a cutting edge.
- Reverse the piece and cut the other end to a shank that will fit your drill press.

In use, chuck it in your drill press, drop it into your wad stock backed by end grain wood or some other backing material firm enough to allow a cut, but not hard enough to dull your punch.  After you cut a few, remove the tool and punch the wads out from the top.

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[john boy]

I want to experiment with home made wads. The Circle Fly wads are great, but why ship wads half way around the world when I don't have to? Interested in making wads for 44/40, 45Colt, 45/70, 12Ga (need 11Ga for the Magtec Brass cases I'm told).

Fourfingers, except for the 45-70 wads I'm going to be candid with you ...Your wasting your time and it will be more expensive and time consuming in the long run making your own wads.  Especially the ones needed for the brass hulls.  By the time you make your 1st wad, you could be loading the pre-cut ones
1.  No wads of any kind are needed and if used is an useless exercise for 44-40 and 45 Colt original powder reloads.  Just seat the bullet on top of the powder column.  But if you must persist, remember that a 44-40 case has a 40 degree shoulder and NO WADS are to be seated below the shoulder.  As for the 44-40 and 45 Colt, just measure the ID of the case mouth and start banging them out
2.  For 12ga brass hulls, where do you plan to obtain the proper materials for the hard fiber over powder cards, THICK greased spacer/cushion fiber wads and the over shot cardboard wads?  Good luck finding the proper materials because I don't know of the source.  And if you do find the source, plan to spend more money for the sheet material than if you just purchased the proper pre-cut wads and spacers to the tune of $24 for 2000 wads!  The shipping to Bathurst can't be much more
3.  But since you want to 'experiment' aka thinking this is the cheap-cheap way out, here are the dimensions:
***  Hard fiber over powder wad: 0.740 x 0.122
***  Greased fiber spacer/cushion wad: 0.749 x 0.518 (using the 1/2" ones, you can cut them to make the proper column height in the case)
***  Hard cardboard overshot card: 0.743 x 0.045
And have you cost out the punches you will need if you find the proper materials?

So that leaves the only wads you should be punching out yourself ...
*** 45-70 - just buy an Osborne #14 punch, 0.460 and punch out any material you want to use. 
Good luck with your endeavor!
 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

this is what I use for wad material;

O/P wad;    Go to a picture frame shop and ask to dig through their trash bin for scraps of backing card.  I've never found 1/8", but two 1/16" cards will do.

Cushion wads;  Here's where I cheat!  for paper or plastic shells I cut the petals off a plastic wad of relatively short length.  (Generally you don't need the shot protectors) place it in the shell upside down over the O/P wad, that is with the cup up. Drop the shot and cover with an O/S wad.  W.W. Greener in THE STORY OF THE GUN calls a hollow cup wad a "Swedish wad". They kinda work in Magtechs, but are loose.

If you can't get cushion wads, call DURO FELT for 1/8" felt.  I have also obtained 1/8" cork sheet gasket material at an auto supply store. It seems to work as well as purchased cushion wads.  (I haven't ordered any Duro Felt)

O/S wads;  I prefer waxed cardboard milk carton material.

For metallic BPCR wads , the best I've found are beer mats from pubs or taverns  (They seem to work better if you've actually drank the beer that sat on the mat! - or maybe that's just my beer clouded memory!)

For home-made wonder wads for Cap'n ball, I use paper pulp egg carton material soaked in melted bullet lube formulated for BP.

John Boy;  Getting stuff like wads at the far ends of the Earth ( I include Canada as export controls from the so-called "Land of the Free" choke things up to a degree that you might not appreciate!) is not a simple thing, and I've resorted to improvisation on quite a few things.                               

[fourfingersofdeath]

thanks for all the info! I don't intend to use wads in the 44/40 and 45 Colt as a rule when I use Big Lube Boolits. I have thousands and thousands of commercially cast bullets for these and intend to use them for practice. In these I have been using a wad and a dob of lube to ease things along. I should just sell the bullets, but in reality, not many shooters use the big bores any more as a special license if required and only staunch lovers of big bores like myself stick with them. A big percentage of big bore shooters shoot black as well. Every time I look like using up these bullets, someone digs out another thousand or two that they have had tucked away and give them to me.

My mate uses wads cut from waxed banana boxes which fascinates me.

I hadn't intended to cut the overpowder wads, but the framing cardboard is a good idea (I have a picture framing kit tucked away as well ).

[Judge Lead]

Mick, I might be able to help a little with the O/P cards if you will be loading black in the plastic hulls. I will bring a sample to Tamworth for you. With the plastic hulls, O/S cards not needed as you would be aware unless you shorten them and do a roll crimp.

These O/P cards are useless in brass hulls as they are too small, but I will be working on something for myself in the near future as I will be trying out my brass hulls in the '87 I have.

Using milk cartons for the O/S cards is not a bad idea as we can get them for nix (a litre of milk will supply quite a few). It's just a matter of finding the right wad punch, or having one turned up as has been suggested (will need to look at getting suitable steel for this).

Will speak to you about this one as well at the end of the month.

Regards

[fourfingersofdeath]

Thanks Judge, I have bought some 11Ga O/P wads for the brass cases and many other wads, I'll bring along a few samples. I'm looking forward to the shoot. I had better get weaving with my reloading and load development.

[Lucky R. K.]

If you want to make your own wads you can get the correct size punch needed from this web site.

http://www.circlefly.com/html/wad_sizing_chart.html.

There are arch punches available in sizes close to those you will need but it would be best if you could make the punch to the size you need.  If you are interested I will try to post a picture of one of the punches we have made.  The punches are run in a drill press and you can cut a years supply of wads in a very short time.

For the fiber wad material you can use a masonite type material used for the sub-siding on houses.  It is a wood fiber base three eights inches thick and comes in four foot by eight foot sheets from Lowes or Home Depot.  For less than $10.00 you get enough material to last for years.  This is the same material used by Circle Fly Wads.

For over shot wads I use corn flakes boxes.

There are several options for the over powder wad.  You can paste up several layers of corn flake box (or similar material) to a thickness of about .125.  Contact a book manufacturer and obtain scraps of the material they use to make the hardbound covers( it is available in several compositions and thicknesses).  The picture backing material would also be an option(which I have not used).

Soak the fiber wads with your favorite lube and you can shoot all day.

Lucky R. K.

[Howdy Doody]

Once again, John Boy nailed it. His library of shooting specs amazes me. I have at least three charts I printed out that he compiled and taped to

Although I do not use fibre wads and over powder and shot cards, Circle Fly is a great product and it would seem that using their products leaves more time to fool with powder and shot charges to get your shotgun to pattern like you want.

Me? I use plastic wads these days and get a lot tighter pattern that I needed for knockdowns and such, but I still do load some with over powder cards and fibre wads for the same shotguns and I substitute my load to #9 shot. These I use for poppers and fliers and for them the spread out pattern and more pellets per ounce helps me get 'em when I run into them at a match. Plastic takes a bit more to clean out of the barrel, but not too much. You will have no problem cleaning with fibre wads for sure.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Seriously good info guys, thanks.