New Uberti Stallion - pics and a few questions....

[Jimbo45]

Hi all!  First post here, but I have been doing a lot of reading here for a while.  Great place to learn about SAA's!

A little backround on me:  I have been shooting for 25 years, mostly semi auto pistols and AR15's since I am a firearms instructor with my PD.  I did have a Ruger Blackhawk .357 way back, but never shot it much.  But, now my seven year old is obsessed with guns and westerns, so I began looking into single actions as a training possibility, mainly for safety and ease of use over auto pistols.  Well, and I must admit, the old 1873 SAA has always had a soft spot in my heart, and the closest I ever had, was that blackhawk.  Until now....

I picked up this Uberti Stallion in .22LR today.  I have to say it looks and handles great.  I did notice that the front sight appears to be cut off and refinished!?  Every Uberti Stallion I have seen a pic of, has the normal round front blade.  This one is flat.  I have read about some owners complaining that the Stallions shoot very low...I wonder if this is a hasty factory fix for the low POI?  Also noticed that there is no crown cut on the muzzle? 

Also, upon receiving it at the dealer, the cylinder was very snug in a spot, when rotating it, and a few times I had the hammer cock all the way to the rear (past the 4th click stop, at cylinder index), and fail to index the cylinder properly.  It was not purchased from this dealer, he only did the transfer.  So, I took it home, and checked it out a bit closer.

It was apparent that the cylinder was dragging at a spot on the rear, on the rear of the frame, at the firing pin hole.  This gun was very tight.  I few careful strokes of a fine file on a few high spots, took care of that issue.  But, when cycling the action, I did have it fail to index the cylinder properly a couple more times.  I would notice it when cocking it, the hammer comes back farther than it should, and bottoms on the inside of the frame housing.  When it does this, you can rotate the cylinder further, and it locks into position where it should be. 

Anyone know what I can check, to fix the occasional failure to index issue?

Anyone seen a cut off (kinda roughly done too) front sight on a Stallion?

Is is common for these to not have a crowned muzzle?

Anyway, thanks for having me, I am going to fire it tomorrow.  This won't be my last post, either.  I have plans for a few more SAA's, and a lever gun.  Maybe some CAS in me and my sons future too!  Here are a few pics.....







 

[Pettifogger]

"It was apparent that the cylinder was dragging at a spot on the rear, on the rear of the frame, at the firing pin hole.  This gun was very tight.  I few careful strokes of a fine file on a few high spots, took care of that issue.  But, when cycling the action, I did have it fail to index the cylinder properly a couple more times.  I would notice it when cocking it, the hammer comes back farther than it should, and bottoms on the inside of the frame housing.  When it does this, you can rotate the cylinder further, and it locks into position where it should be."

What you are describing generally indicates the hand is not engaging the cylinder ratchet teeth..  The Stallion has a coil spring and plunger hand spring setup.  Make sure both are in the frame and that the plunger is not sticking.  Also check that the hand is not dragging.  Lots of handguns have flat muzzles, so don't worry about that.  The front sight has been modified by the previous owner.

[Jimbo45]

Thanks Pettifogger!  I assumed it had to do with the hand's spring. As I rotate the cyl, I can hear the plunger spring sqeaking as it moves back and forth.  I will take it out and make sure its working smooth and also make sure the hand sides are smooth.  Thanks again.

About the front sight....this gun is supposed to be brand new from the factory, according to the dealer I bought it from.  I know, though, it looks like an aftermarket mod.  Thats the reason I asked...it seems odd Uberti would be making them like this.   

 

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[Jimbo45]

I had about a half hour at the range today and fired 36 rounds through it.  5 of the 6 loaded cylinders resulted in malfunctions, with one load it occurring twice.  I think it may not be a hand issue now, though.  It appears to be over clocking, as if the cylinder stop isn't snapping up all the time, and the cylinder spins past the notch, and then it pops up.  That is why the hammer is going back too far...the hand is pushing the cylinder around too far because it isn't being stopped when it should, by the cyl stop.  I hope to have some more time to check it out tonight or tomorrow.

What does it take to fix this condition?  I assume I am SOL with Stoeger or Uberti, and even if they would look at it, I bet the shipping would be a small fortune and huge hassle.  I emailed the dealer (out of state) to ask about his return/exchange policy and am awaiting a reply.

Any help, guidance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I am not against trying to fix it myself, if I am otherwise stuck with a paper weight.  I am very mechanically inclined, and have some fab skills, and have built and fitted 1911's in the past.  This SAA stuff is new to me, but I like to learn!  Thanks in advance.  Jimbo45

[Pettifogger]

Front sight may be original.  They might have changed it since the last one I looked at.  Take the cylinder out and cock and release the hammer to see if the bolt is going down and coming back up smartly.  Put your finger on top of it to see if it has definite positive up force on the bolt.  If you have "built" 1911's you can surely fix a single action.  There are only four parts in there.  The trigger, bolt, hand and hammer.  Cylinder over rotation like you are describing can still be the result of a stuck/broken hand spring.  The hand acts as a brake lever on the cylinder ratchet teeth.  If there is no pressure or not enough the cylinder spins too fast and can over rotate before the bolt has a chance to come up.  Nice gun.  If you are the least bit mechanically inclined I wouldn't worry about it.  They are very easy to take apart and inspect and repair if necessary.  Could be something as simple as a burr keeping the plunger from moving properly.  (Could be they forgot to put the plunger in.)

[Jimbo45]

Took it apart last night.  You are right, it is simple to work on these things. I was able to determine that the hand and its spring are working correctly, with no binding. After completely disassembling the gun and seeing how all the parts interact, it really is pretty simple and i can see that the bolt stop is being released just before the notch in the cylinder is over it, instead of snapping up, hallway up the cylinder notch ramp, like it should.  I also saw an online article on a gunsmith having to modify the stop cam on the hammer for this very same issue. This looks well within my capabilities, so i plan to take a little off the cam at a time, until i can get the stop to snap up on the ramp like it should instead off doing so, so late.  Wish me luck luck, and thanks for the help.

Edit: silly smartphone 

[Pettifogger]

Always remove metal from the cheapest part.  Don't remove metal from the hammer, remove it from the rear surface of the bolt leg.

[Jimbo45]

Always remove metal from the cheapest part.  Don't remove metal from the hammer, remove it from the rear surface of the bolt leg.

Ah, very good point.  I considered that since that would be easier anyway.  I'll do it.  Wonder why the Smith ground the cam instead of the stop leg, in this link? : http://www.hobbygunsmith.com/Archives/Oct04/Interview.htm Thanks for the tip, I will let you know how it turns out!

[Pettifogger]

Might be one of the old "D" cams Uberti used a few years ago.  Never seen anyone adjust bolt timing by grinding the cam.

[sack peterson]

My educated guess is a D cam hammer was never used on the Stallion.

Don't do any thing to the cam other than polish it.  If cylinder rotation is lagging bolt engagement, you either need a bolt with longer cam leg or a longer hand.

1st thing to ascertain is that this gun goes into battery with 100% reliability.

[Jimbo45]

Shortening the leg on the bolt worked great and now it snaps right onto the ramp as it should.  I also discovered that another cause of the timing and lockup issue, was the bolt is way too tight in the cylinder notches.  Fitting it into a couple of them and it would actually stick!  , II got a little carried away and took too much off one side and its a bit loose for acceptable cylinder play for my liking.  I have a new bolt on the way.  Anyone have any suggestions for a method of shaving a couple thousandths off the bolt side, when you dont have a machine shop?

[Mossy Pops]

I use a set of honing stones from Brownells that are made to fit the slots in the SAA.  Even on my USFA revolvers, I've had to slick up the sides of the bolt.  These stones work perfectly.  They also let you hone the hand slot.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9628/Product/COLT-SINGLE-ACTION-HAND-SLOT-STONING-KIT

They aren'r real cheap, but I've had mine for a couple years and they will last many more with care. 

[Jimbo45]

I use a set of honing stones from Brownells that are made to fit the slots in the SAA.  Even on my USFA revolvers, I've had to slick up the sides of the bolt.  These stones work perfectly.  They also let you hone the hand slot.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9628/Product/COLT-SINGLE-ACTION-HAND-SLOT-STONING-KIT

They aren'r real cheap, but I've had mine for a couple years and they will last many more with care. 

Thanks!  I do need to get some stones someday.  I was under the impression that the stones don't really remove much metal though.  I will need to take a few thousandths off the width of the bolt, at the very top, where it engages the cylinder notches.