Is CAS fading into the sunset??

[Russ McCrae]

Yep that's the deal with me. Between duck hunting and CAS that's about all the hobbies I can afford. But when we get into turnaround/shutdown season I can afford more stuff then go back to shooting when we're on 4/10's

[Jeremiah Jones]

My first exposure to CAS was about 15 years ago.  My boss took me to a shoot one Saturday.  It was great, laid back, fun and I started saving up for a pistol.  I was in the Army and was sent overseas.  When I got back, I was stationed in an anti-gun urban area, then back overseas.  I finally came back, retired and thought about getting that pistol.  Then, I went to some shoots.  Now, to get started, I would have to buy four guns and a cart.

If I want to do anything other than come in last, I’d need to dump more money on having the guns tuned/short stroked/etc.  What I see now is IPSC in a cowboy hat.  The bar (dollar wise) to entry is so high, I moved on to other more affordable interests.  I did buy a Rossi M92 in .45.  So I put on a cowboy hat and boots when I go to the range.  That is as close as I’ll get to CAS.  Though I still think about what might have been.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

I disagree with that! Our kids have different priorities for their money, monster pickup trucks, I Pads, Blackberrys, etc, etc. Any family that I have seen compete together mom and dad generally pay the freight for the kids to shoot. I live in oilfield country and the rigpigs around here make more money than they can or will responsibly spend.

My step son is a welder, building rigs, he makes more money than his mother and me combined, in excess of $150,000 a year. In the past he has flown across the country just to attend a hockey game, or flown to Vegas to party on the weekend.  I know another rig welder that dropped $6,000.00 on an IPSC pistol and can't find the time to shoot it more than once a year if that.


Also at our average age, we have a more stable lifestyle than they, we are generally employed in occupations that allow us our weekends off. When you look at cost, consider other hobbies, skydiving, muscle cars, para gliding, etc, etc, I think you will agree in the big scheme of everything after the basics are purchased with the exception of the cost of travel we have a relatively cheap hobby.

What you state sounds great and might include 10% of the younger folks.  I know that my kids are struggling to feed their kids and keep the roof over their heads.  One of my sons would love to shoot SASS or some form of, but cost is a HUGE factor.  For my part at 66, there are other cost, such as mortgage, insurance and taxes that eat up my small retirement.  The amount I could put aside for gun purchases might be $100 a month as long as nothing unexpected happens.  So I then would have to decide on using that to save toward a $1200 dollar rifle or purchasing ammo.  Cost is a huge factor for a lot of folks.

There is also realism in what we do.  Most "Cowboys" owned a revolver.  Most farmers owned a shotgun and there were some folks that owned a revolver and a shotgun or rifle.  Realistically, a fellow could purchase 2 Cap and ball revolvers and a shotgun even if on a limited income.  One cap and ball and one shotgun would be even better.

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[Major 2]

"Most farmers owned a shotgun and there were some folks that owned a revolver and a shotgun or rifle.  Realistically, a fellow could purchase 2 Cap and ball revolvers and a shotgun even if on a limited income.  One cap and ball and one shotgun would be even better"

This was my very reason to petition  The NCOWS 32nd Congress for Sodbuster approval

Sodbuster = one pistol & 1 shotgun
currently the class is under testing in several posse's

[Billy Bristol]

The cost is a big factor.
I myself am on a very limited income. I already have 2 c&b revolvers and a used shotgun that I can use. But the rifle would take me close to a year to save up if nothing happens before that. And I will also need a holster setup for 2 guns. I don't even know how much that will set me back.
Also here in CT I noticed not one person shooting c&b pistols at both shoots I went to. When I mentioned it to someone at the last shoot. I was told they take too long to load so they frown upon them as it holds things up. So now I am not even sure what is going to happen this spring. I know I will go to watch. But not sure if I will shoot.
My neighbor might also be interested but I know he would rather I was shooting along with him.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

"Most farmers owned a shotgun and there were some folks that owned a revolver and a shotgun or rifle.  Realistically, a fellow could purchase 2 Cap and ball revolvers and a shotgun even if on a limited income.  One cap and ball and one shotgun would be even better"

This was my very reason to petition  The NCOWS 32nd Congress for Sodbuster approval

Sodbuster = one pistol & 1 shotgun
currently the class is under testing in several posse's

Sod buster and Working Cowboy are great ideas.  Unfortunate the travel distance for me to any NCOWS event or shoots would be a might to far.  I just feel that SASS is going to suffer if they do not consider the same thinking.  The economy is getting slowly better in some area's but other area's are still going down.  The next jump is coming this year and that is inflation. It will get harder and harder for folks to spend money on hobbies.

[Major 2]

I saw what you speak of years ago when you wrote...

" Also here in CT I noticed not one person shooting c&b pistols at both shoots I went to. When I mentioned it to someone at the last shoot. I was told they take too long to load so they frown upon them as it holds things up"

My question is ...What's the hurry? Are we not there to enjoy the shooting ?
I shoot to relax and enjoy the comradery. That why we started an NCOWS Posse' in Florida.

I saw the attitude, chase a nice fellow away, who shot two C&B's, a Henry & a SXS.
"They" complained about the smoke, about the fact he spent more time loading, than picking up brass they spent.
He was always there to tear down and put targets away, after "they" (others) left.
This fellow shared the Henry & SXS with his brother, when he also came out.
Sadly they are both history.

You just might be suprised to find several like mind folks like yourself in New England
and NCOWS could have new posse'.... 

[Billy Bristol]

I think for now I will just be a spectator until I learn more about the few posses we do have here in the northeast. I don't know of any NCOWS posses here in the northeast. Also from what I read in NCOWS tally book it would end up costing me even more to start. So for now it will be CAS if I do decide to shoot.

[Major 2]

I don't mean to be argumentative....

I have to ask what in the NCOWS Tally Book has you saying.
"... Also from what I read in NCOWS tally book it would end up costing me even more to start"

Would it be the...

wardrobe ? 
guns ?   
leather ?
Membership itself ?

I think you may have misinterpreted what you have read 

I'm asking because I am the NCOWS National Judge, and sit on the Executive board.
I'd like to help clear up any misconceptions.

[Billy Bristol]

well from what I see it would be wardrobe and leather. The holsters I have are on the not approved list. And the wardrobe is more to period correct so i would need almost everything.
Being on a very limited budget would make it costly for me.

The rifle I know I would need for either. And that is going to take me months to save up for anyway.

I am not one to borrow anything more than 3 times. If I need it more than 3 times it means I need to buy it. Just the way i was brought up.

That's why i will be a spectator this coming year. If all goes well maybe will be able to start shooting either by years end or for 2014.

If I can sell my trike this spring maybe will be shooting this spring though. I figure I can get$7000 for the trike so that would give me way more than I need for everything. And maybe a few new pistols also.

[Major 2]

well from what I see it would be wardrobe and leather. The holsters I have are on the not approved list. And the wardrobe is more to period correct so i would need almost everything.
Being on a very limited budget would make it costly for me.

The rifle I know I would need for either. And that is going to take me months to save up for anyway.

I am not one to borrow anything more than 3 times. If I need it more than 3 times it means I need to buy it. Just the way i was brought up.

That's why i will be a spectator this coming year. If all goes well maybe will be able to start shooting either by years end or for 2014.

If I can sell my trike this spring maybe will be shooting this spring though. I figure I can get$7000 for the trike so that would give me way more than I need for everything. And maybe a few new pistols also.

Ok...

let me address your concerns ( accually it is to clear up these as much for others as youself ,as I know there is no NCOWS Posse' in your area   )

"well from what I see it would be wardrobe and leather. The holsters I have are on the not approved list. And the wardrobe is more to period correct so i would need almost everything.
Being on a very limited budget would make it costly for me."
In SASS (unless you were wardrobed as "Silver Screen costuming )
you will most likely would be well with in level 1 for NCOWS and there is no pressure to excede to the next level less you wish to.  
As to leather ? Buscadero Holster I assume ?, NCOWS posse's allow you a year to come to the approved Kit, at least a the Local posse' events.
Now, if you were to compete at the Regionals or National events NCOWS asks that you conform to the Kit, however Level 1 is just fine.

" The rifle I know I would need for either. And that is going to take me months to save up for anyway.

I am not one to borrow anything more than 3 times. If I need it more than 3 times it means I need to buy it. Just the way i was brought up. "

I understand I feel the same ( I care not to borrow )

However, we have  2 classes for just two guns only ( WC or Working Cowboy one pistol & one Rifle , it is our most popular class )
and Sodbuster ( this is not a National Class , at least not yet )
one Pistol & one Shotgun. It is a class at the local level and one several posse's shoot...
Our NCOWS Posse' here offers it and has seveal entrants every shoot.

Some offer it as Team Class ( 1 WC & 1 SB ) to complete in the standard 4 gun course of fire.


Good Luck in 2013  





 

[Blair]

Rodger,

Very nice reply.
Thanks!

[Major 2]

Thanks Blair...I felt it need be said....

NCOWS is not everwhere, you well know the trials to get it started here in Florida.
Add that to a Gent with no mentor, the Tally Book can be daunting.

NCOWS is a fine place to join in and enjoy your shooting passion and our history.

[Johnny McCrae]

Our SASS Club shoots the second Saturday and Sunday of each month. We set up on Saturdays and afterwards shoot a regular match. On Saturdays we have a separate Posse for new shooters. This is never a large Posse. We take our time going over safety rules, gun handling and stage procedures in detail. This takes some of the pressure off of new shooters and it does not slow down a regular Posse. We have had a good response to this.

I would like to see SASS have a "two gun" class similar to the NCOWS "Working Cowboy" class. IMHO it would be easier on the pocketbook for new shooters.

"well from what I see it would be wardrobe and leather. The holsters I have are on the not approved list. And the wardrobe is more to period correct so i would need almost everything.
Being on a very limited budget would make it costly for me."
In SASS (unless you were wardrobed as "Silver Screen costuming )
you will most likely would be well with in level 1 for NCOWS and there is no pressure to excede to the next level less you wish to.  
As to leather ? Buscadero Holster I assume ?, NCOWS posse's allow you a year to come to the approved Kit, at least a the Local posse' events.
Now, if you were to compete at the Regionals or National events NCOWS asks that you conform to the Kit, however Level 1 is just fine.

Well said Major

[GunClick Rick]

When ya go take young folks with ya a few times or everytime you go and let them see if they would like to learn.Then it will not fade away.

[Major 2]

Both above are very good ideas ....

[Cliff Fendley]

My first exposure to CAS was about 15 years ago.  My boss took me to a shoot one Saturday.  It was great, laid back, fun and I started saving up for a pistol.  I was in the Army and was sent overseas.  When I got back, I was stationed in an anti-gun urban area, then back overseas.  I finally came back, retired and thought about getting that pistol.  Then, I went to some shoots.  Now, to get started, I would have to buy four guns and a cart.

If I want to do anything other than come in last, I’d need to dump more money on having the guns tuned/short stroked/etc.  What I see now is IPSC in a cowboy hat.  The bar (dollar wise) to entry is so high, I moved on to other more affordable interests.  I did buy a Rossi M92 in .45.  So I put on a cowboy hat and boots when I go to the range.  That is as close as I’ll get to CAS.  Though I still think about what might have been.

Jeremiah, see if there is an NCOWS posse in your area or consider getting some like minded folk together and organize one. You only need one pistol and one rifle in working cowboy.

[Green River Powell aka RonC]

A big issue for me is that the nearest Single Action club is at least a 45 minute trip with no traffic, and typically takes me almost an hour.
I belong to an outdoor range, and I have seen groups there with their 1911s, Tommy guns, and striped suits, but I have never seen a SASS group.
I already have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt (with spare 45 ACP cylinder), an EMF 1892 rifle and a replica Colt 1851 Navy. I also have a 357 cartridge belt and 2 holsters for the one Blackhawk.

Ron

[Cliff Fendley]

I think for now I will just be a spectator until I learn more about the few posses we do have here in the northeast. I don't know of any NCOWS posses here in the northeast. Also from what I read in NCOWS tally book it would end up costing me even more to start. So for now it will be CAS if I do decide to shoot.

NCOWS would cost less if you don't have the guns. You would only need one pistol and a rifle for working cowboy (the most popular class). That means only one holster to start. Even a custom period correct belt and holster from myself or many other makers cost about half of the second pistol. You just add that second holster later if you wish to get the second pistol.

If your worried about an outfit forget all the things you've may have been told about the clothing police myth. Sure NCOWS requires the clothes to be pre 1899 appearing. Many SASS shooters are doing that already.

Hamilton dry goods generally has the cowboy special where you can buy pants, shirt, suspenders, and socks for 69 dollars. Throw on a pair of ropers or rounded toe wellingtons without stitching on the toe and you'll be good to go. If you wish to add to the outfit that can be done later.

I don't know how it is so misunderstood about everyone thinking someone is going to spend a bunch of money on an outfit to shoot NCOWS.

The ONLY class in NCOWS where the outfit is judged is the Originals class. That is a whole other level of the game if ones interest leads them there.

[John Smith]

In this and various other forums there are repeat posts about why someone "can't" participate in CAS.  Would like to join in, but don't like having to wear western dress and use an alias:  would like to shoot but think I should be able to use my 870/1100/glock/1911/ etc.  it costs too much to get outfitted.  No matter how many posts explain that a costume can be a pair of jeans, a colored button shirt and a pair of lace up shoes/boots people apparently want to shoot in running shoes, t-shirt, and ball cap and complain when they are told they can't.  The cost of firearms can be excessive, mainly because newcomers have the idea (probably from reading online posts) that they must have $1500.00 short stroked slicked up '73s, Browning BSS shotguns, and a pair of slicked, short stroked revolvers.  Add 5 or 6 hundred dollars worth of name brand leather, it would seem to be out of sight.  No matter how many posts about inexpensive ways of getting into the game, the same complaints reoccur.  NCOWS is even more misunderstood.  I shoot NCOWS matches in the same clothing, and with the same firearms I use in SASS.  I've yet to meet any "stitch counters" in either game.  I have friends who ride Harleys, I can't afford to buy one, but probably have as much invested in my CAS gear, gear that I've acquired over the 15 yrs or so I've been shooting.  My point is, in my experience, if you really want to do something, you will find the wherewithal to do it.