Where is everyone?

[nativeshootist]

Where'd did everyone go?  kinda boring around here now.

[Major 2]

Might be the really annoying , intermitment slow CAS City BB, been that way about a week now...

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Well, we could talk about how much I loved my 38-40 1866, now that I replaced the loading ladle with one from Track of the Wolf!  I shot clean at the local match, including tin cans and clay pigeons at 25 yards (off hand, standing).  VERY sweet.

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[Tuolumne Lawman]

On a more serious note, I think it also about the changes in the sport.  We on the 1860 Henry, SCORRS, and STORM forums are inclined to historical period type firearms, especially in the early West, and Western History in general.  We like stages that challenge our skill and accuracy with firearms.  The vast majority of the sport (or what remains of it) is now tuned race gun six guns with lowered hammers, 1.5 pound triggers, and rifles with "Lightning Links" aluminum followers, and titanium firing pins.  All of the above shooting minimum mouse f@rt loads....  They like Pistol target you can touch, that are 24" x24", and rifle targets that would have been considered too close for pistol targets in the old days...We are becoming an anachronism, just like the old guns we love.

On the Ghost Riders forums (for those of use that were on the original CAS-L bulletin Board list pre-1995), there is almost no one left.

[Abilene]

I was on CAS-L but not til '99.  I remember hearing about how the founders of CAS didn't want it to become a race gun sport.  But when they approved that first short stroke rifle, the floodgates opened and the sport continued in that direction.  Last year I even caved in a little and shortstroked my .357 '73 that I shot stock for 17 years.   Fortunately we still get to play with our cool stuff and matches are still fun if different.  Still a shame it went so far that way.  When I retire I'll be able to travel and will start shooting some NCOWS.

Oh yeah, this is the Henry forum.  Well, mine is an improved Henry in .44 spcl.  To date it has 7226 rounds through it.  It has a great patina from BP but I mostly shoot smokeless through it now since I have 32wcf and 44wcf for BP.   This season I used it to shoot "sharpshooter" a new category at the Texican Rangers.  You shoot your pistols at the rifle targets, and shoot the rifle at Cody-Dixon targets, which are 60-100 yards.  I shot a 240gr bullet with a light load of Clays.  The TO and some spotters behind me said several times they could see the bullets arc to the targets.  But I didn't miss often.  I have Ruger 10-22 sights on that rifle, a folding leaf rear (which cost me a clean match once when I forgot to fold it up), and a very small brass bead up front.  The SASS trend is big giant (and stupid looking) front sights, but I like this little one for distant targets, and fortunately I can still see it.

[Coffinmaker]

I would really like to argue.  Jump up and yell NOT SO.  But I can't.  When I started playing this game, looking at the loading table, most of the players were in their 20s and 30s with a good smattering of Young folks.  Those early players are still mostly the same players.  WE have all become a little more "seasoned."  We all got old.  When you look at a loading table now, we're all Old Guys, with very few young players.  So, here is the bottom line, like it or not.

SASS/CAS is dieing.  Snarling, biting, kicking, scratching but croaking.  Those of us whom grew up on "B" Westerns, Saturday matinées, and now extinct TV westerns have all gotten Old and there are no more of those entertainments.  Nobody comming up behind us.  So we're "it" and as we quit, so dies the fire.

CAS didn't start to fail at the first Short Stroke.  The equipment race was inevitable.  When the founders brought out the first Stop Watch, the game became one of ever increasing speed.  The Bigger, Closer targets and gun modifications became a natural evolution.  The Game has evolved to the speed game we see today.  Except for a bunch of us Old Codgers.  The only reason most of us are no longer in pursuit of speed is cause we're ....... Old.  The vast majority of the old guard shoot modified (Short Stroke) rifles, modified shotguns, (funnels for the breach) and modified hand guns (Short Stroke +) and even the older guys whom are just getting a start seem to think it's the speed parts that make one a winner.  Practice??  Naw, not me, just lower my hammers.

I could stay here on my soap box all afternoon, but I won't.  It's nap time 

[Buffalo Creek Law Dog]

As PJ has mentioned several times on this forum, that SASS/CAS has unfortunately become IPSIC in cowboy boots.  I totally agree.

[Blair]

I have been involved in some sort of historical firearms shooting for a very long time. 99% of it has been with BP loads.
Some folks simply like shooting the weapons, but care nothing for the historical aspect. I have always felt that this was there lose.
One of the things I have seen over the years is that it tends to run in about 5 year cycles. F&I War, Rev War, 1812 War Civil War and so on and on.
I think that this is perhaps what maybe going on with Cowboy Shooting like what has gone on with many other forms of Historical time periods of reenacting/shooting? I truly hope so. After all is said, It is a great shooting sport.
my best,
 Blair

[Tuolumne Lawman]

The youngest competitor at our matches is in his mid to late 50s!  I am 66, and in the younger half.  When I started in 1994 (I was 42), it was about having fun and shooting cowboy guns, with some history thrown in.  The SASS rule book was a 3.5"x5" pamphlet, and the main test was "The John Wayne Test"  They stopped referring to that about the time short stroke kits and mouse f@rt loads became popular.  I saw the progression begin back in the early to mid-2000s.  Over the ensuing years, it has gotten worse instead of better.

[Professor Marvel]

.......
 When I started playing this game, looking at the loading table, most of the players were in their 20s and 30s with a good smattering of Young folks.  Those early players are still mostly the same players.  WE have all become a little more "seasoned."  We all got old.  When you look at a loading table now, we're all Old Guys, with very few young players.......

There is the first problem - no new young guys.

I myself am unsure exactly how to attract them. As you said, They are not interested in cowboy stuff ( let alone history) .
 
They are all into the video games on cell phones and tricked out  PC's that could run NASA.
Or Black Ops shooting games. Remember the guy trying to promote the paintball/airsoft game? I STILL don't like
any "game" that has you shooting realistic weapons at other live humans.

And then there's the cost.
guns:
          2 antique style Single actions, @ $500
          an antique style lever gun  ~ $500
          and an antique style shotgun. ~$500
     retail about $2k
costume: boots, shirt, hat, gunbelt & holsters: entry level close to $500

ammunition: store bought 45 Colt at $45 a box?? oh crap drop $500 quick.

membership fees......

a guy has to drop almost $3k to come play.

and remember - very little of the above translate well to use in the "modern world" any more than Rondyvoos gear does.

We were all anachronisms to start with, and in this crazy fast-changing internet world it's only getting worse/stranger/crazier faster....

yhs
prof anachronism

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[Mogorilla]

yup, no young shooters.  At 52, I am on the younger side for our group.  I will happily say that we had a 14 year old at the last NCOWs Shoot and the one in June had 3 in that age range.  4H is doing some western shooting.   I also have to say, much like on line gaming, I was schooled royally by those young'uns.   I also am involved at shoots at the Jesse James Farm in Kearney Missouri (last one this year is September 15).   There are always a couple of shooters in the younger range there as well.  Unfortunately, like me they are shooting cap and ball, so I am taking to school again!     

Real issue to me is, society does not have kids playing with toy guns.  We all grew up with cap guns.  Secondly, we all grew up watching westerns on TV.  No regular western series on anymore.   At least some of the channels designed for non cable users are showing reruns.   I have not seen Alias Smith and Jones since it went off the air, all caught up now!

[Johnny McCrae]

And then there's the cost.
guns:
          2 antique style Single actions, @ $500
          an antique style lever gun  ~ $500
          and an antique style shotgun. ~$500
     retail about $2k
costume: boots, shirt, hat, gunbelt & holsters: entry level close to $500

ammunition: store bought 45 Colt at $45 a box?Huh? oh crap drop $500 quick.

membership fees......

a guy has to drop almost $3k to come play.

In an effort to attract new Shooters we have a "Two Gun Class" (Rifle and Pistol) at our monthly SASS Matches. We also have a full set of Club guns for new Shooters to use. Attracting younger Shooters is the challenge.

I shot my first match in 2007 at the age of 66. I wanted to buy a Henry to start with but ended up with a Uberti 1866 Yellowboy. I still hope to get a Henry someday. Several years ago I just missed an opportunity to buy a new Henry for $550. A non Shooter won it in a raffle and just wanted to get rid of it.

[Major 2]

"...And then there's the cost.
guns:
          2 antique style Single actions, @ $500
          an antique style lever gun  ~ $500
          and an antique style shotgun. ~$500
     retail about $2k
costume: boots, shirt, hat, gunbelt & holsters: entry level close to $500"

 2 antique style Single actions, @ $500  ....maybe each !

 an antique style lever gun  ~ $500 .... maybe a Rossi 92

I go along with you on an antique style shotgun. ~$500      that's doable 

But your right, no argument start up is costly , if your starting from 0

and if you don't reload....    down right prohibitive ...

There are way to skirt costs , as Johnny said  2 gun (as in NCOWS)
but then you'll have to travel, cause NCOWS is rarer outside to corn belt.

If SASS would adopt a 2 gun class ...I believe there would be a influx of shooters, but not Huge rush of younger shooters , as stated little interest in the youth generations .

[Coffinmaker]

Nah.  Unfortunately, a "Two Gun" category would only draw a few more Q-Tips.  Lets face the reality.  If the "game" can't be played with an electronic controller, displayed in 4G Colour on a 52 or larger big screen, youth is just plain not interested.  Not even on their radar. 

I remember ALL of us neighborhood kids, and I mean ALL, girls included, running all over the neighborhood shooting each other with our fingers.  Today, parents don't let their kids outside into the neighborhood.  Fear.  The kids that do run the neighborhoods are what the other parents "fear."

HOWEVER;  The foregoing does not excuse all us older Recliner Potatoes for ignoring our Forums.  Somebody out there just HAS to have a question.  Someone else just has to provide some quality abuse.  No excuse to be just spooning the Ice Cream.  Let's get with it all you old farts.  We need something to talk about or better yet, someone to abuse!!!

[Professor Marvel]

HOWEVER;  The foregoing does not excuse all us older Recliner Potatoes for ignoring our Forums. 
Somebody out there just HAS to have a question. 

I will endevour to generate a plethora of argumentative topics!

yhs
prof marvel

[Major 2]

" ...We need something to talk about or better yet, someone to abuse!!!"

Do you need the list again ?  


I have to agree.... parents are in a paranoiac state...and I'm sorry to say with some just cause.

It is no longer the era in which we grew up.  

A Kid was expelled just the other day by a School System, for biting his whitebread/cheese sandwich into an L shape, pointing it at another kid and saying BANG !  EXPELLED !  
Kids are disciplined or suspended for pointing their fingers and saying BANG !

I understang the fear of a gun in school, all too well , but a "CHEESE SANDWITCH"  

Howabout a School resourse officer tazing a kid just because he was asleep in class !  that happened just this last Wed. !

[PJ Hardtack]

In Kanuckistan, a guy was stripped searched and his home ransacked because his daughter drew a stick man with a gun at school.

She said - "That's my dad protecting me from the bad guys."

The cops found a NERF gun in the home. There was an out-of-court settlement.

The handicapped son of friends was taken down at gun point by the rcmp for playing with a Star wars pistol near a highschool. Again, there was an out-of-court settlement.

A Cosplay type was similarly taken down in Torono for getting on public transport with a plastic AR15 look-alike on his way to an event.

We live in a gun-paranoid world. Those of us who remember playing cops & robbers and Cowboys & Indians thoroughout the neigbourhood are a dying breed.

Instead our kids/youths are playing violent video games in their homes. At least we got fresh and and outdoor exercise and we didn't grow up to be gang-bangers.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

In Kanuckistan, a guy was stripped searched and his home ransacked because his daughter drew a stick man with a gun at school.

She said - "That's my dad protecting me from the bad guys."

The cops found a NERF gun in the home. There was an out-of-court settlement.

The handicapped son of friends was taken down at gun point by the rcmp for playing with a Star wars pistol near a highschool. Again, there was an out-of-court settlement.

A Cosplay type was similarly taken down in Torono for getting on public transport with a plastic AR15 look-alike on his way to an event.

We live in a gun-paranoid world. Those of us who remember playing cops & robbers and Cowboys & Indians thoroughout the neigbourhood are a dying breed.

Instead our kids/youths are playing violent video games in their homes. At least we got fresh and and outdoor exercise and we didn't grow up to be gang-bangers.

This!

[Coffinmaker]

A REALLY REALLY LOUD "PLUS ONE" to PJ.  Spot On.  Whom was "Spot" anyway??  A weak mind wants to no.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Anyone else remember that Mike Venturino article titled something to the effect "What Would Wyatt Say?" that was written about 10 - 12 yrs. ago? I considered that a watershed moment in the hobby/sport that predicted the spiral. Nonetheless, I have learned a lot from some of you ol' coots. I remember shooting my first BP cartridge gun in 1982 and believe you me there was next to nothing at hand to help one do that then!! There was one journal that ran for a couple of years "Black Powder Cartridge Rifles" that was manna from heaven. Nowadays, a new tyro can read in an hour or so on the Internet what took us YEARS  to learn by trial & error!!    

Regardless, there have been some great threads on this forum through the years. I just wish someone would have made a '66 "Flat Side".    That was my only unfulfilled wish to see someone do on this sub-forum.