46 Buffalo taken with Henry Rifle.

[Grizzly Adams]

I had seen a post on the BROW site regarding the use of lever action rifles during the hay-day of the great buffalo hunts.  Did a search and came up with this interesting fact:   In the famous hunting contest between Bill Cody and Bill Comstock, in which they were competing to see who would win/retain the name "Buffalo Bill", Bill Comstock used a Henry Rifle, and another Winchester. ( I believe an 1866 or 1873.)  Cody shot 69 animals and Comstock killed 46 with the Henry.  Cody won the contest and rights to the name.

Kids, don't try this at home! !

[Books OToole]

Bill Comstock used a Henry Rifle, and another Winchester. ( I believe an 1866 or 1873.)  Cody shot 69 animals and Comstock killed 46 with the Henry. 
Kids, don't try this at home! !

Since Comstock was killed by Indians in 1868, the other Wichcester had to be a 1866.

Books

[Grizzly Adams]

Since Comstock was killed by Indians in 1868, the other Wichcester had to be a 1866.

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Har! Yep, that would do it!

[Advertising]

[Coffinmaker]

Stop and think for a moment.

We know how big a Buffalo is.  At least I do.  I've been within an arms reach of one (they smell bad).  They aren't just big, their HUGE!! 

Now, knowing just how little and comparatively underpowered .44 Henry Flat was/is.  THINK ABOUT how close they had to be!!!!  TWO TONES of Buffalo with a .44 Henry Flat.  Those guys had cajonies the size of beach balls!!!  Or, they were just plain nutz!!!

Coffinmaker

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Hoiwdy Pard,

Initially I was thinking the same as you.  Then I remembered that I knew someone who poached dozens of deer (if you call it poaching when you are poor and trying to feed a family) with a 22 Short single shot rifle! The butcher who came and killed and butchered our hog last year (300+lbs) used a 22 LR

29 grain 22 short-200 lb deer, 215 grain Henry-Buffalo.  Probably shot placement.

In his book "Buffalo Runner" Frank Meyer (who was a buffalo hunter himself) refers to Buf being taken by others with 44 Henry and 44-40 Winchesters.  He preferred to use a  .45-120-550 3 1/4" Sharps!

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

My grandfather shot deer with a .22 long rifle til he aquired a .35 Marlin 336. Shot placement!
He killed his hogs with one also. Til he misplaced one, thus the .35 if memory serves me correctly.
 I chat with a fella on another board that hunts elk and has for years with a bolt action .243 with something in the neighborhood of a 60 grain bullet. Of course hydrostatic shock is a big factor due to bullet velocities. I personally cannot confirm this but have read other posts from other hunters using the same round with the same results...dead in their tracks.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Many deer of all sizes have been and still are taken with factory 200 grn JSP 44-40, which in the factory smokeless loading only has  about 1220 fps (100 fps or less than the old BP 200 grain Henry round).  AT least my BP (actually 37 grn volume 777) 44-40 have about 1375+ fps from my 24 inch Henry.

SOme day I will take a deer with my Henry and with my 56-50 Taylor's Spencer.  In the past I have taken them with .303 British, 30 M1 Carbine (110 JHP), 30-30, and 30-06.  THe one I killed with the little 30 Carbine was just as dead as the ones I killed with the 303 and 30-06!  The M1 carbine kill was a broadside heart-lung shot at 75 yards, and left a hell of an exit hole.  It didn't make it 50 feet before it dropped dead. The dear field dressed at just under 200 pounds.

Eskimos use 30-30s to kill Polar bear, Moose, etc. so I guess folks killed lots of game including buffalo with their 1860 and 1866 lever guns.  You use what you have.

[Grizzly Adams]

Eskimos use 30-30s to kill Polar bear, Moose, etc. so I guess folks killed lots of game including buffalo with their 1860 and 1866 lever guns.  You use what you have.

True indeed.  I lived for 23 years in Western Alaska, working  in Yupik Eskimo villages.  Neighbor of mine shot and killed a 11 foot Brown Bear with a 30-30.  I knew that he also carried a 7mm mag on his snowmobile during the Spring, so I asked him why he did not use it instead of the old 30-30.  He said, "Too many people out, ...it goes to far."   Bear was grave yard dead with one shot to the neck.   

By the way, the rear sight on that 94 was attached with black electric tape!

[James Hunt]

Yellowstone Kelly purchased a rare Henry with short barrel (carbine) upon his discharge from the Infantry. He then made a living as a hunter and trapper. Later he was photographed with an 1866. In his biography written when he was still alive, he reported killing buffalo and never made a comment that the .44 rf was underpowered. I agree it takes a set to walk up to a buffalo and pop that baby with a Henry - of course east Kentucky hunters 100 years earlier were killing buffalo for food (they considered the hides not worth taking - it was the "red" deer they were after) with .48 - .60 cal firelocks (try reloading old betsy while running thru the woods with a ticked off beast on your heels). I think these guy's all had shot placement down.

Today we suffer mag'itis. Hunting mule deer in Wy it amazes me (and the locals with their .270's and 30-30's) how many guy's from the east show up with 7mm, .338, .300 etc, mags to shoot a deer. I think that we have lost a-lot of hunting skill with our urban lifestyle - never had to grow up shooting all the squirels and rabitts you could eat, or you didn't eat. We make up for it with more velocity and Cabella's finest apparel.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Amen!

Most of my early game (deer and wild Black Russian Boar) was taken with a $75 sporterized No. 4, Mk I .303 British I picked up in 1973.  No scope, iron sights.  distances were 100 to 300 yards. Small stuff (about a zillion rabbits) were taken with a Ruger 10-22 obtain the same year. Still no scope. I have also used a Marlin 336 30-30 (same vintage) and an IBM M-1 Carbine built in 1943 for deer.  I would regularly go hunting with guys who would have a 7MM or 30 Win Mag and a 3x9 (or 16 power) scope.

I understand big guns for the open Wyoming plains, but for 100 yards give or take in the Siearras or Cascades, it doesn't make sense.  My carbine killed the deer just as quick and just as dead as my pard with the Browning BAR 7mm Magnum.  He would be suffdering carrying it, and I was smiling carrying either my Carbine or Marllin 30-30.

Now I wouldn't want to hunt Moose or Elk with a 30-30 like the Eskimos, but a 30-06 with a Nosler partion or Speer bulllet about 200 grains or so would do nicely <g>

[Maverick3855]

I have always thought there was some testosterone thing regarding hunters and high powered rifles.
I see guys with black powder rifles pumping 125-150 grain black powder loads at deer and guys using 7 mags.
I have shot 11 deer with a 357 magnum and 8 with a 44-40 and 6 with a 40 caliber flintlock and 55 grains of 3F.
All were one shot kills.
I always catch crap from folks for using underpowered guns but I have never had to shoot one more than once and never lost one.
I have shot close to 70 deer in my life and have used a 30-06 but prefer a lighter caliber.
My 45-70 does entirely too much meat damage so I go for head neck shots on deer when I carry it and save the body shots for elk.
When people give me a hard time about a 40 flinter with 55 grains of 3F I always point out that tens off thousands of deer and elk have been killed with 44-40's and my 55 grain podwer charge is heavier than that.
It just happens to be the most accurate load for that rifle and I prefer accuracy over power.
They just shake their heads and walk away.
Doesn't seem to make much difference to the deer as they are just as dead as with a 30-06.

[Grizzly Adams]

Now I wouldn't want to hunt Moose or Elk with a 30-30 like the Eskimos, but a 30-06 with a Nosler partion or Speer bulllet about 200 grains or so would do nicely <g>

Why not a 30-30?  I have seen lots of moose taken with the old 30-30.  Does a nice job actually, and you can eat right up to the bullet hole!

An 06 makes lots of nasty black jelly!

[Delmonico]

A lot has to do more with the performance of the bullet rather than the caliber and velocity.  Modern bullets in the form of Nosler Partitions, Barnes X Bullets and the likes have finally made it possible to not destroy a bullet with velocity, this also destroys meat.  For years my "I'm gonna kill meat" deer rifle has been a 99 Savage in 243 with a 1X 3.5 power scope.  the rifle will do slightly over 1 moa with a 90 grain Barnes and it mostly lives on 1X.  You do have to watch yer time because you can see to shoot long before and long after proper time.  But then the G&P wants a lot of deer killed and this is perfect cause I can turnit up and pick that spot out through the brush.  95% could be killed with a 30-30 or a 44-40, but then I still want that extra one or two cause if the G&P wants me to kill them, fine, I'll also eat all I can get.   Oh and yes with that you can eat right up to the bullet hole.

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pards,

There was a story I saw in Field & Stream or somesuch about an Inuit woman who was chased up a food platform by a Brown Bear.  It was getting dark and the bear was shaking the platform, BAD!  All she had was a Colt's Woodsman in .22 rf.  Got too dark to see, but the bear was nearly throwing her off the platform.  She poked the gun down and fired blindly.  There was a tremendous ruckus...and then all was quiet.  When the sun finally came up next morning, she looked down and saw the bear laying there stone dead! She'd hit it in the eye and the bullet penetrated into the brain cavity, killing the b'ar DEAD!

But, somehow, if I ever got to go Brown Bear hunting, I don't think I'd take a Colt Woodsman in .22 rf!  As the ol' mountain men used to say, "Ya gotta tetch th' life!"

[Grizzly Adams]

But, somehow, if I ever got to go Brown Bear hunting, I don't think I'd take a Colt Woodsman in .22 rf!  As the ol' mountain men used to say, "Ya gotta tetch th' life!"

No guts, no glory!

[Will Ketchum]

Trailrider, I read a similar story about a wildlife photographer in Africa.  He was being stalked by a lion.  He retreated into a stream but the lion followed him.  He only had a 22 pistol besides his camera.  He fired one shot and hit the big cat in the eye killing him dead.  I wouldn't hunt lions with a 22 any more than you would bears.

Will Ketchum

[Delmonico]

Peter Capstick killed a lion with a O/U 12 ga. with 1 1/8 oz of #8's or rather he gave it both barrels at a few feet.  Nope ain't using one of them either.  Nothing wrong with using more power than needed as long as you use a proper bullet that don't ruin the eatin' part.    Have only killed one deer that a 30-30 or 44-40 would have not worked on and I was not the one who messed up the first shot, but a flat shooting accurate rifle with a good bullet saved the day, way further than I had ever planned to shoot but nothing to lose since it was a cripple.   BTW the bad shot was the deers fault, it moved just as the trigger was pulled, I saw it all.

[Books OToole]

I think it was Jack O'Connor who said:  "A .270 Winchester is adequate for big bear, but if you feel more comfortable with a .375 H & H magnum, by all means use one."

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[Delmonico]

Jack was a wise man.   

[Books OToole]

Jack was a wise man.   

Indeed he was.  I will have a copy of The Big Game Animals of North America for sale at the NCOWS convention.

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