If this is Wild Bunch, why can't I ........?

[Grizzly Adams]

.....shoot my Wiseinhymer model 98 go fast?  It was in the movie!

From the SASS Wild Bunch Handbook:

"SASS Wild Bunch Action Shooting is a combination of historical reenactment and
Saturday morning at the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to
wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century and early 20th century cowboy and
military. Emphasis is put on period US military from 1900 to 1916. Period western dress is
allowed such as Pike, Dutch, Lyle, or Tector in the closing scene of the Wild Bunch movie (e.g.,
Western style pants with or without suspenders, and long sleeve western shirt). Vests are
optional. Boots must be SASS legal. Hats must be worn and must be made of felt, no straw
hats. Mexican dress is also appropriate."

Note that it does NOT say that Wild Bunch is based on the movie.  The emphasis is on period military from 1900 - 1916.  The only mention of the movie (other than borrowing the name for the game!) is the western dress of the characters in the closing scene, and that is to provide an option to period military dress.

The discussion about what is, and is not, included in SASS Wild Bunch will be a never ending source of amusement for us - much like the unending discussion abut what should or should not be included in Classic Cowboy, or B Western.  "Why can't I use/shoot/wear my ______ in _______? - just fill in the blanks!  Wild Bunch is based no more on the Movie Wild Bunch, than SASS is based strictly on John Wayne movies.  Arbitrary decisions are made, and rules promulgated accordingly to establish and publish the guidelines for the game and the various categories.  It's as simple as that.   The primary goal is not to conform to the fine details of a movie, or specific time frame, but rather to insure consistency of play no matter where you go to play - the game is defined, just as GAF, SASS and/or NCOWs action events work off a known template.   
 
SASS Wild Bunch is a blast!  It's a big bore - no mouse loads need apply - affair!  It has an aggressive, edgy feel that is a bit different than CAS.   Gun up, gear up, and go have some fun!

Great new forum!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I watched someone go on and on about not being able to use a Model 87 on Wild Bunch shoots.

To keep it simple;

1.) It's their webpage

2.) It's their rules

3.) If they wish to have a competition snapping Tiddly -Winks at targets, refer to rules 1 & 2.

'Nuff Said.

[Dalton Masterson]

At your range, you can make the rules however you wish. But for a SASS Wild Bunch match, this is the rule...

The Sand Creek Raiders, in Colorado, has had a Wild Bunch match and posted rules long before SASS did. They have a huge list of firearms you can use. http://www.sandcreekraiders.com/  I wanted to adopt these rules for our club, but we stuck with the SASS rules, to keep it standard across the board.

Myself, I dont like the limiting factor that SASS has, but I can see the need to simplify the options, to make it an even playing field, without making a whole bevy of other classes to accomodate double action revolvers, autos, bolt actions, etc.

DM

[Advertising]

[Camille Eonich]

I watched someone go on and on about not being able to use a Model 87 on Wild Bunch shoots.

To keep it simple;

1.) It's their webpage

2.) It's their rules

3.) If they wish to have a competition snapping Tiddly -Winks at targets, refer to rules 1 & 2.

'Nuff Said.

That's it in a nutshell.

[Border Ruffian]

As long as it is safe it should be a go! 
restrictive rules are no fun!  That's what SASS is supposed to be about.

[Camille Eonich]

As long as it is safe it should be a go! 
restrictive rules are no fun!  That's what SASS is supposed to be about.

Nope, then it wouldn't be Cowboy Action shooting anymore.  It would be come and shoot whatever is safe shooting.  I can go to the range and do that anytime.  

[Grizzly Adams]

Nope, then it wouldn't be Cowboy Action shooting anymore.  It would be come and shoot whatever is safe shooting.  I can go to the range and do that anytime.  

+1

Yep, I play "shoot the contents of my gun safe" all the time - but not for CAS.

[Montana Slim]

That's all good-n-fine.

But, I know my local SASS club, which has offered a Wild Bunch for years, won't be following the latest SASS rules for club-level matches.

Regards,
Slim

[Camille Eonich]

That's all good-n-fine.

But, I know my local SASS club, which has offered a Wild Bunch for years, won't be following the latest SASS rules for club-level matches.

Regards,
Slim

LOL  Most won't.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Nope, then it wouldn't be Cowboy Action shooting anymore. 

Seriously Camile, the minute we strap on our 1911, the "Cowboy" quickly dissappears from Cowboy Action Shooting in my eyes.

I enjoy Wild Bunch matches as I am a fan of the movie and an even bigger fan of the 1911.  I view Wild Bunch as a peripheral fantasy event that rides parallel to Cowboy Action Shooting.

I really enjoy the clubs where Wild Bunch is a FUN side match where you can safely shoot your pencil barrel S&W's, your Broomhandle, your Luger parabellum, your Browning Auto-5, etc....  Many of us have gun cabinets with nice pieces from the early 1900's and it's nice to have a venue to safely use them.

SASS has formalized the "official" WB rules to regulate the competition.  So be it.  I still think the clubs with more inclusive firearm rules have the better Wild Bunch matches.

[Camille Eonich]

Seriously Camile, the minute we strap on our 1911, the "Cowboy" quickly dissappears from Cowboy Action Shooting in my eyes.

Well in my eyes the Wild Bunch was a Cowboy movie.  A cowboy movie with a twist no doubt but still a cowboy movie.

SASS has formalized the "official" WB rules to regulate the competition.  So be it.  I still think the clubs with more inclusive firearm rules have the better Wild Bunch matches.

I'll not argue with you about that at all.  I have no desire to shoot SASS's version of a Wild Bunch match.  I have shot a lot of Wild Bunch matches at other state and regional events before SASS created to new rules for EoT though and the common theme in each and every one of the was a 1911, a '97 and usually a main match rifle.


And the comment that you quoted me on was in reference to him saying that as long as it was safe it should be allowed.  My AR-15 is very safe as is my MAK, my Beretta .25, My Ruger No.1, my Ruger LCP....

[Will Ketchum]

I want to use a water cooled machine gun like the Maxim in the movie .

Actually I have a friend who has a water cooled Browning and we have talked about having a real Wild Bunch match.   We would need donations for ammo however.

Several of the scenes were with Winchester Model 12s and not 97s.  Oh well still one of my favorite movies.

Will Ketchum

[Texas Lawdog]

Bro. Will, We can come up with the ammo, we just need to link it up.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

I want to use a water cooled machine gun like the Maxim in the movie .

Actually I have a friend who has a water cooled Browning and we have talked about having a real Wild Bunch match.   We would need donations for ammo however.

Several of the scenes were with Winchester Model 12s and not 97s.  Oh well still one of my favorite movies.

Will Ketchum

Will,

We can use that fancy Barbary pirate knife of yours to reenact the scene where Malpache cuts the throat of Angel.

That's one nice looking piece of steel.

Pancho

[John Smith]

I want to use a water cooled machine gun like the Maxim in the movie .

That sure looked like a 1917 Browning to me.

[lethal larry]

I guess that it will not be long until we have Zoot Suit side matches at CAS events now. More guns, more gear, different set of clothes, etc, etc, etc.
I reckon that's all ok....another excuse to buy a Thompson, eh?

[Texas Lawdog]

LL, I just happen to be a member of the Zoot Shooters #28.

[Grigori_Storri]

Well Peckinpah was the man, with Wild Bunch shootout you have to think timeline. June 1910 was the official start of the Mexican Revolution but it is not really counted until 10 NOV 1910. This was the begining of the modern war watercooled machineguns, semi-auto pistols, boltaction rifles. Yes there is a lack of Cowboy to the whole thing Medena's Legion consisted of Boars from South Africa who were living in New Mexico, American merc's who were all named Slim who server in the Philipines together, Canadian Mounties, Swedish, Italians, and a Welshman. History only notes one COWBOY in the whole group was Edwin S Tex O'Reilly who was a known BS artist and a world class one at that. There was no record of his supposed exploits except for what came out of his mouth.

The timeline would say that older weaponcraft would be outdated but I can say that they were in use during the time moslty by the regular and irregular troops of Medena, Villa, and Zapada. The modern equiptment machineguns, artillary, explosives, motorbikes were more common to these foreign legionaires mentioned above. boltaction rifles were issued to the regular and irregualer locals who were supplied 1903 rifles by Taft administration and after him the German government with K98 rifles wich were supplied to both sides of the conflict at different times.

Sorry for the history lesson, but it is a timeline issue.

[Pitspitr]

I really enjoy the clubs where Wild Bunch is a FUN side match where you can safely shoot your pencil barrel S&W's, your Broomhandle, your Luger parabellum, your Browning Auto-5, etc....  Many of us have gun cabinets with nice pieces from the early 1900's and it's nice to have a venue to safely use them.

Check out the GAF EEM

LL, I just happen to be a member of the Zoot Shooters #28.

Me Too! I'm #16. I still haven't zhot a zoot match though

[Bat 2919]

Any time you guys want to shoot a real world Wild Bunch match, come see the Sand Creek Raiders an hour east of Denver at the Colorado Rifle club.   That's all firearms designed between 1892 and 1921 (yes, the Thompson is included) stop by on any fifth Sunday of the month during our shooting season (May 29, Jul. 31 & Oct. 30, 2011).  The Raiders as our alter ego "The First Precinct” will also be holding two Zoot shooters matches in 2011 as well (Apr. 10 & Sept. 11). 

The AZSA founders club is also located in Colorado and shoots an hour west of Denver in Dumont at the Clear Creek Sportsman's range on fifth Saturdays. Yes, that means that in July and again in October of 2011 you could shoot an AZSA match on Saturday and a SCR Wild Bunch match the very next day on Sunday.

Come on out and shoot with us some time.

Bat Masterson SASS # 2919
        AKA
G Man AZSA # 11