Movie myths

[PJ Hardtack]

In the current James Bond flick "Sky Fall", Daniel Craig places 12 ga. shotshells under a floor board for the bad guys to step on. Horse hockey! You've seen this ploy in other movies as well.

Google the SAAMI-produced film I mentioned on the 'reloading' forum to get the REAL facts surrounding sporting ammo and what happens when you try to ignite it individually, collectively, explosively and by fire.

If you've got a copy of 'Hatcher's Notebook', you already know what happens - nada. That's why surplus and deteriorating military ammo is burned in an incinerator. Explosive rounds are first deactivated.

At a club work party, I collected a handful of rifle and pistol ammo and threw it into a fire. All of a sudden, I was alone, standing there while it cooked off. Later, someone else threw a partially filled spray bomb with a plugged nozzle into the fire and I hit the dirt!
It went off like a grenade and blew out the fire.

I've no idea what would happen with BP rounds ..... anybody wanna try it and let us know the results?

[Major 2]

Let me tell you first hand...

Olustee, Florida circa 1982-3 Battle of Olustee....

We (units) were given Powder rations to expend in the event.... course this was loose powder "if" your unit was small ),
And everyone pre rolled their own cartridges.
Now it seems, the size of the unit dictated the poundage, 10 = 1 pound, 20 men =2 pounds  ( somthing along those lines )

Anyway there was Confederate unit, small maybe 6 men and their ration was given in styro coffee cup complete with styro lid
and a tin of musket caps.....

It was delivered to their camp I thing Friday evening.... no one claimed it or I guess need it so it sat
out all night ( this capped Coffee cup and tin of caps )

The next morning, this DARWIN of the guard, decided to say " Hey boys watch this ! "
and dropped it in the coals of the overnight fire.....
Complete with cast iron pot w/ legs..... he was expecting a WHOOSH  

I heard from about 100 feet away a " NOoooooooooooo !" from a close bystander  and  BOOM
and I mean BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM !

the results was 3' foot Crater clear of any coals, ash, wood, I mean a clean white sand hole !
and a Shrapneled cast iron pot.... one piece passed through the baggy pants crotch of the closest Reb
Drinking coffee ... never contacted his family jewels  

Two pup tents were peppered with coals and cast iron pot adding much air cond. to both.
the coffee pot was butterflied and strattled over a pine bow 25 feet up !

Firewood shards rained down 100 feet away......

after a safety meeting....

As I recall.... Darwin and his pards were invited to leave the event post haste by the Park Rangers.


Moral , BP and Campfire coals are a NO MIX !

Oh and they don't issue loose powder any more !

[PJ Hardtack]

Major 2

Thanks for sharing - now I don't have to find out what will happen.

I am puzzled as to why there was such a violent reaction, as the powder wasn't tightly contained as it would be in a cartridge case.
We've all lit a trail of BP or fired up some in an ashtray to see what would happen and all we got was a bright flash.

Methinks our Reb done something he didn't own up to; like making up a 'bomb' to waken his troops.

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[Will Ketchum]

PJ, smokeless powder needs to be tightly contained such as in a cartridge.  Black powder on the other hand doesn't, it is self containing.  I'll tell you it just explodes.  It doesn't detonate like high explosives but it is a force to reckon with.  The trail of black powder you see in the movies is another one of the movie myths you talked of.  It doesn't burn slowly but rather pretty darn fast.  If you contain black powder it gives more oomff and will be more efficient.

[PJ Hardtack]

Will

Yes, I found out (along with a lot of others) that BP doesn't make that dramatic fizzle on the way to the rest of the keg. It had to be smokeless to get that effect.
I'd still like to see SAAMI do a similar test with BP cartridges and powder canisters. I'd like to know if propagation would occur or if it would be more localized as it was with smokeless.

[The Elderly Kid]

One of my favorite movie myths is the effectiveness of a thrown knife. Not only do they stick every time, I don't think I've ever seen a knife thrown in a movie that didn't kill the victim instantly. To the best of my knowledge, this has never actually been done in the real world. Expert knife throwers can often seem to do almost magical things, but they always throw at a known distance, usually at unmoving targets or at least targets moving at a known speed. And knives don't have enough mass to penetrate a human torso effectively at hand-thrown velocities. A lucky hit on a jugular might do it, but real luck would be involved.

[Major 2]

It was contained within the enclosed topped-off styro cup , it was full and I asume some settling. and having sat out all night, I think dampness (not wet) had an effect.

If it had not been so scary, it would have been funny !

The Dude with the hole through his baggy crotch, was worth the biggest horse laugh 

[Don Nix]

A 2x4 a nail, a piece of pipe and a 12 ga. shotshell makes a hell of a mine.Also using a big rat trap a 2x4 and a 12ga shell and you've got and instant booby trap.
I spent quite a few years raiding dope fields and other illegal enterprizes and you would be surprized at how simple it is to get maimed by an idiot with some shotgun shells or a pound of black powder and some medicine bottles.
 Also a medicine bottle ,a piece of cannon fuse and some black powder will guarantee an successful fish fry.
Black powder is volatile and dangerous. 

[PJ Hardtack]

Don

A 12 ga. shell in a pipe is a different proposition. That's a gun barrel and things are going to be a lot different that a similar set up without.
I well remember an Army training film and the associated manual that described all manner of booby traps which were ingenious in their design. They may not have all been fatal, but from a military point of view, a wounded soldier is more of a liability than a dead one.
Some I remember were:
- a typewriter with one seldom used key wired
- a stove with a wired oven control
- a rain barrel with an acid solution to make it a battery wired to charge
- a ball point pen
- something heavy holding down a pressure release device

Made you think twice about any souvenir pick ups. This was long before the widespread use of IEDs in combat.

[Mogorilla]

Just my $0.02, what the Major described was enclosed, had a lid.  Big difference in that BP burns real fast, no where for gasses to escape because of lid, even a styro lid, Big boom.  Lid not on, an big scary whooosh.  I have heard a half full toilet paper tube of BP folded over on the bottom, open on top will give a big scary whoosh.  Fold over the top, Boom.   Not sure if true, but I respect the guy who told me and have no plans of finding out unless the MAyan's were right and things hit the fan.

[PJ Hardtack]

I'll repeat some of what I just posted on the 'reloading' forum ....

A Dr. of my acquaintance threw an unopened plastic 1 lb. canister of powder into a 45 gallon burning drum. He got a 3-4 second "Whoosh!"; no boom.
He got violent reactions from an 'empty' spray foam can and split the drum open with a partially filled lighter fuel container. In his opinion as a man of science (and a shooter), we all have many things in our homes that constitute much more of an explosion hazard than BP.
I'm trying to influence him to try it again with a metal can of powder with a screw top - and video tape it.