H&R 38/55 Target Model Problem - Help!!

[38-72]

I am looking for ideas on how to fix a problem I have with my H&R 38/55 target model rifle.

I bought the gun new a few months ago.  I shoot lead bullets, so I slugged the bore, which ran about 379 to 380.  I had the neck area reamed out so I could shoot 380 bullets.

Loading data:  I use 240 grain, 380 diameter, Oregon Trail FN bullets, which are seated to an overall cartridge length so the bullet just barely touches the rifling.  I use 777 black powder substitute (enough to fill the case to the bottom of the bullet without compression).  I use a paper card (0.030 thick) between the powder and the base of the bullet.

Now for the problem:  At 25 yards, about half the bullets are going sideways thru the target.  The other half leave normal holes.  What the heck am I doing wrong?

[Adirondack Jack]

I'd guess the bullets are not engaging the rifling quite enough.  If there is a bullet available that is .001 bigger?  Carefully check for leading???

[Delmonico]

Go to a soft lead bullet to allow it to bump up.  If it slugs anywhere near 0.380 then a 0.380 slug is two small, 0.381 or even 0.382 would be none to big with a hard cast store bought type.  I run a 0.379 over Nitro powder in a bore that slugs 0.377 in a 375 Winchester and it does great.

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[Springfield Slim]

Bullets are too hard. Either go softer or bigger, if you can. Oregon Trail bullets are very hard, going by the ones I have seen.

[john boy]

38-72 ... suspect that you are crimping the cases?  If so - don't.  Use about 0.002 neck tension only
Here's my method:
... Use a Universal Decapper
... Take the pin out of the decapper that came your dies.
Take a fire formed case (do not resize them) and adjust the decapper so it sizes the neck of the case to the 0.002 to the depth of a seated bullet

I shoot my El Cheapo will excellent groups out to 300yds.  Mine has these actuals:    •   0.374 bore and 0.378 grooves.  So, we are talking shallow grooves which LIKE a harder Bhn bullet with the 1:18 twist.  I shoot no bullets softer than Bhn 12, usually Bhn of 14-16

Favorite recipe:
Cases - fire formed only ... never resized.  Yes, my chamber is reamed out also
Fed 215 Primer
40gr FFFg sifted
0.3 dry felt wad
Lyman 378674
1187 fps
SD - 8
OAL: in the leading bore - dependent on case length

[Howdy Doody]

Bullets too hard and you need a bigger diameter too. I put a good crimp on mine and it shoots pretty well when I do my part. I had issues with a 45-70 and hard bullets and learned there. I use 20-1 stuff now in long range.

[sundance44`s]

You aren`t the first person I`ve heard complain about the H&R Buffalo in 38/55 putting bullets down range tumbleing ..I`ve heard it more than once ...It scared me into buying the 45/70 model ... never had the 45/70 tumble the bullets // but before I found a bullet that works great in the 45/70 model it took a lot of tries . I finally ended up with a lee casting mold in .459 dia 405 gr hollow base bullet ... It fixed all my greif plenty of room for lube too .... made a real tack driver out of mine .
These H&R toppers are a good rifle for the bucks ..just can the sights and replace with some that work  ..and find the right bullet , and you`ll really enjoy shooting her . I think there is some older post on here about fixing the bullet tumbleing act your haveing .

[rifle]

you might check yer muzzle crown, check fer tight spot/spots in the barrel, use regular black powder or smokeless and get rid of the 777, try a 20-1 lead/tin alloy bullet.

[38-72]

First I want to thank everyone for your comments. 

And, second, I have some Great News!!! 

I tried a softer and heavier bullet, 380 diameter & 265 grains weight.  I loaded the case with 777 powder (just enough to touch the bullet base and loaded to the same over all length as before).  I loaded a few with standard rifle primers and a few more with standard large pistol primers.  I shot them at the same distance, 25 yards.  And, my final answer is:  NO MORE KEY HOLING.

I tried 2f vs 3f; there was very little difference between the two in the accuracy dept.  The big difference is in the primers.  For group size, the pistol primers ran circles around the rifle primers.  The loads with the rifle primers were grouping in the 3 to 4 inch range.  However, with the pistol primer loads, the group size was about 3/4 inch. 

I didn’t clean the bore between strings.  I wanted simulate a SASS match with lots of shots between cleaning.  The best groups came at the end of the testing.

I haven’t had the chance to test them at 100 yards, maybe this weekend. 

[sundance44`s]

Good to know there is a cure ...might make me pick one up at a gun show or something now ...thanks for the report .

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, 38-72!


Glad ya found a cure.

"Happiness is a warm gun"

 

[john boy]

I haven’t had the chance to test them at 100 yards, maybe this weekend.

38-72 ... Did you? And if so, how were the groups?

[Noz]

Sundance, I'm looking at the 38-55. I'll have it reamed. Where do you find acceptable sights for them?