Need help on loading Blackpowder for my SxS

[Cuts Crooked]

Yup! 3" chambers in the SxSs, but not in the 97s.

[T.J. McSuds]

 Sorry, I missed the line about the 97.

[Two-Bits]

Cuts Crooked:
I got my Norinco '97 back and checked the barrel markings.  It DOES say 2 3/4 Shells.  The SxS says 3" Shells.

I patterned the SxS yesterday.  I'm not sure what I should be looking for but the target was a piece of cardboard shaped like a person's head and torso.  The shot was evenly spread throughout the target.  I'm guessing it was about 10 to 12 yards from me.

After looking at the pattern, maybe I'm just a crummy shooter with a SxS during a match.

PRS:
When I said "If I push the wad further down to eliminate air space between the bottom of the wad and the powder, won't I need a longer shot cup at the top of the wad", what I should have added in there some where was "after loading less powder"

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[Cuts Crooked]

Howdy Two Bits,

The "art of scattergunning" can get pretty esoteric when it comes to patterns and how to improve them. There are lots of tricks to get better patterns out of a gun, both tighter and more open. Turkey hunters want a pattern that is tighter than blazes! If they can get a soft ball sized pattern at 25-30 yards they are in Heaven! Quail hunters on the other hand, want as open a pattern as they can sqeeze out of a gun....and still get a smooth shot spread with no holes in it to speak of.

"Choke" is determined by how large or small the patterns are at given ranges, I cain't recall exactly what percentages of shot are supposed to be in a 30" circle at a given range to determine what the choke is. I hope someone will jump in here with that information.

However, at CAS ranges, most of that stuff is not very important! What you are trying to find out by patterning your gun is, much like rifles and pistols, exactly where is it shooting too! You need to draw a 30" circle on your pattern paper and AIM at a dot in the center. Then examine the paper and take note of your shot pattern in relation to that dot. Is it throwing the shot swarm high? Low? right or left? Then you can adjust you aiming point accordingly when shooting at targets. Usually any problems in "point of aim/point of impact" are not revelvant enough to worry about, but once in a while one finds a gun that throws way off and either needs the services of a smith or the shooter can correct by aiming to make allowence for the difference.

Regarding what PRS wrote about air space: The golden rule of shooting BP in any gun is "No Air Space in the Cartridge"!!!! Leaving air space does a couple of things, It makes the powder burn less effceciently, and it it creates a condition that could leave a ring in your chamber or even cause a ruptured barrel! That's not very likey to happen in your gun designed for 3" magnums....but it could happen. As to your question about how to avoid that: In your case, you could add extra shot to the shell. It won't hurt anything, with black powder loads, if the shot goes above the plastic wad within the confines of the cartridge. And in building BP shotshells it is always better to go in the direction of more shot than powder in order to fill up the shell. Another route to go would be to put more cushion wad in the shell to take up the extra space. The fibre cushion wads can be split so as to add a bit more to take up the space in a shell by adding a partial wad on top of a full wad. This also has the effect of creating a better seal to help prevent blowby as the shot column passes through the more open area of the forcing cone.

Finally, I apologize if this isn't very clear & concise. I'm not a very good writer...and I'm certainly NOT an expert about this stuff. I'm just a pard who has struggled with the same things you are learning about now! There are some very good books out there by guys like Doc Shapiro and Mike Venterino about loading BP cartridges for CAS but I don't know if there are any that are tailored for scattergunz and BP. If there are, Would some of you pards pass the information to us here? PLEASE!!!

[Delmonico]

I'm gonna say a bit about choke, first of all what is marked on the gun is a guide and only a guide.  Used ta help a friend from time ta time at a gunshop, my friend owned a barrel mike and we miked fer customers fer free.  You would be surprised how many would come in with the trap gun of they're dreams they were thinkin' on buyin, mike the choke constriction and decide from there with out ever patternin' it. 

Constricion makes the choke work, but patterns will still vary with the load used.  As an example, many know my birdgun is an 870 Remmy 28 gauge double barrel.   Ye it has two interchangable barrels, marked mod and skeet.  By playin' with the load I can shoot more open than cylinder or close to modified with the skeet choke.  From skeet to a very tight full with the modified barrel.  And yes just fer referance I run the mike down both one time.  0.005 and 0.025 constriction.

But yet they will vary.  There are many ways to pattern a shotgun. most use a stupid percent number or somethin' like that.   Numbers on paper never killed anything except accountants.

Figger out what the minimum and maximum range you will shoot targets are.  fire the gun at at least 3 differt patternin' papers and max and minimum range.  Will the point of aim kill the target with out destroyin' the meat if it is a bird.  If so it'll work.  Clay targets, never too dead.  Fer knockdowns, how many does it take.  I leave this to someone else cause I don't know and smaller shot will take more.

As fer screw in chokes if yer gun has them, find on that works well fer ya and leave it in till ya clean the gun.  Other wise you'll always have the wrong one in the gun (in yer mind)  I don't want ta see ya out there with a possibles bag full of chokes and a cordless choke srcewer in and outer.  You'll just look silly.

Now I must clean the froth off'a my keyboard and get more coffee.