Armi Jager Dakota cylinder slip

[trevorw]

Hi - I'd originally posted this over on Coltforums but they sent me here because my pistol is a clone. I'm just gonna copy the post, though. Call me lazy.

I have a 1970s Armi Jager Dakota, .357 cal, that I got from my uncle (although it once belonged to my grandfather as well). It is a SAA clone that appears to be part-for-part quite similar to the "real" thing, so I'm hoping the same knowledge applies.

The lock up on this gun has always been very tight but several months ago it developed rotational play, to where the cylinder would not catch when the hammer was cocked all the way back. It was as if it was overshooting the locking bit deal (that is a technical term). If you turned it either way with your hand it would click in place and lock up fine. This problem got worse and worse until one day the pawl snapped and the entire gun stopped working, complete loss of spring tension in the whole mechanism... so I sent it to a gunsmith who is a personal friend of a friend and had it repaired for fairly cheap. My guess was that the pawl had become worn and was responsible for the play - but now with a new pawl the cylinder is still doing the thing, so in fact I think it was the cylinder which broke the original pawl.

The finish around the notches is quite worn so I'm not sure if that is a sign that the timing is off or if that's natural with these guns. Additionally, the ridges the pawl interacts with seem 'peened' or worn away. The gun is fairly old and was run very hard in its past life as a quick-draw gun, so I wouldn't be shocked if it needs a complete rebuild.

Here's a picture of the cylinder.



If it needs to be worked on - is it work I can do myself or should I definitely see to it that it's received by a specialist? If it's the latter, this gun will be out of commission for some time, which is an awful shame because it's so much fun to shoot, but I can't afford another trip to the gun doctor when I've got a Mauser C96 on the way.

Thanks!

[pony express]

I can't guess without looking at it what exactly is wrong, but I can tell you that as a fellow owner of an Armi Jeager, Colt, or the currently available Colt Clone parts won't just drop in, and some may not be able to be made to work easily. I know for sure the hammer and trigger are different, and the trigger/bolt spring can be modified from a Pietta BP one. I haven't had any problems with the lockup on mine, only that it came to me with a dangerously light hair trigger, which I was able to improve, but not as much as I wanted to, since I had to work with the parts that were in it.

[trevorw]

The trigger on mine is a featherweight, too! But it didn't scare my uncle or my grandfather, so I'll shoot myself with it before I admit in front of them that it terrifies me.

The paper I got back from the gunsmith had it marked as a Uberti rather than what it actually is, so I'm wondering, and hoping, that perhaps the pawl he installed in it is just the wrong size part, and there's nothing irrepairable going on here.

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[pony express]

Mine was light enough to cause accidental discharges from just touching the trigger as I cocked it, I don't have a guage, but I'd say it was just ounces. Laid out the parts next to Colts parts, trigger was longer, notches on the hammer were in different locations, so I hade to make do with just deepening the notch and re-shaping the end of the trigger. But I don't remember what , if any, differences there were in the pawls.

[sack peterson]

Blueing wear on the cylinder notches and ratchets might be plain to see, but these generally accrue in amounts of say thousands or ten thousands over the course of 30-40 years with these things.  Even if revolver was used sort of hard, I think burrs will dress off with a file and gun will time up with fitted parts.  Maybe cylinder bolt head is worn, and is reason it won’t catch assertively during rotation, maybe that needs to be replaced.  Examine sear and bolt spring also, maybe it’s gotten soft and sloppy.

I use the late model Uberti hand with spring and .150 pin for the Jagers .  Sometimes I have to take the height down, sometimes not.  I usually have to widen the opening between the primary and secondary finger just a little.

The universal SAA sear and bolt spring from Brownells will work, minimal fitting if any.

Trigger, I don’t know.  Jager trigger is of the Colt pattern, but it rides on a trigger screw that is of a metric width.  If the Uberti trigger has a small hole, I can foresee that you could use it if you opened up the hole to proper size with the proper metric bit.

Cylinder Bolt – very much of the Colt or late model Uberti pattern also, but the screw it rides on is metric.  Same deal.

Yes, it can all be done but it is very much the labor proposition for a gunsmith to figure it out.

[Coffinmaker]

The fault you describe is commonly caused by a bolt that doesn't fit the cylinder notches.  Or a bolt that is worn.  Or a trigger/bolt spring that has seen better days.  The wear on the cylinder leads, as shown in the photo, would indicate bolt rise has been/is a little early which causes wear on the bolt as well as the cylinder.
My first step would be to replace the trigger/bolt spring and test
Next test is to see if the bolt rise is enough to fully engage the cylinder notches (look they the window as the cylinder rotates and watch the bolt rise)
Next test is to check the fit of the bolt into the cylinder notches.
Actually fixing these things gets very involved.  Takes a book.  I recommend Kunhausen's book.
Replacement parts availability is a problem.  Correct new parts need to be fit.  Making parts from "others" fit is a real groan.
Think about a new gun.  I'd recommend a nice GW II from EMF

Coffinmaker

[trevorw]

Thanks for the tips, guys. At the very least I've got some new information to share with the smith. This gun is the only one I own that intimidates me when I start taking it apart, so maybe the book will help if I choose to do it myself...

The bolt does engage the cylinder notches, usually, but maybe one time out of ten it'll miss and the cylinder won't lock. I agree that it's probably worn out. The edges that engage the cylinder seemed softened and slightly beveled last time I looked at it.

The gun is sentimental as it belonged to both my uncle and my grandfather (and it was free by extension) so I don't mind putting the money in, though I certainly wouldn't mind if it broke less often. In the meantime, I'll stop shooting it so I don't subject the cylinder to more needless wear.

I'd definitely like to own another revolver at some point, but I think the next one I buy will be a cap and ball. I've recently taken a liking to the 1851 Navy...