Catchur - Catsup - Ketchup

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy folks,

I use ketchup in my cooking a lot. How far back does it go?  Tomatoes were suspect prior to the early 1800's in many places.  How available was it in the West post 1875?  How was it packaged?  Wasn't plastic squeeze bottles for sure.   Thanks.

[Delmonico]

What you want is Tomato Ketchup, in times past ketchup was a term for many sauces, I have recipe for graped ketchup, walnut ketchup and even mushroom ketchup.  The term comes from a Mayla word meaning "pickled fish sauce" not a sauce to put on pickled fish, but one made from it.

Heinz introduced store bought Tomato Ketchup at the 1876 Philly Expo, but this was on a National basis.  Smaller companies seem to have existed before the Civil War and sold to local markets.

Tomato Ketchup recipes seem to show up in at least the 1820's.  The tomato thing is interesting, because I think it is more a story than truth, folks however seems to have not trusted raw tomatoes, not as much because they thought they were poisionus, but that they were hard to digest. It was recomned that they be cooked at least 2 hours before eating.

The lack of tomatos in earlier times was most likely the fact that the original varieties were very small, more the size of a blueberry.  Selective breeding brought out varieties more worth dealing with.  This is still an area that I am researching.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy,

I should have proof read the title as well as the text!
Thanks Delmonico.  Found a history of ketchup site that gives the name of the original sauce as ketslap as the fish sauce brought to England by sailors in the 1600's. 

They say that the first published tomaote based ketchup was from Nova Scotia in about 1820. 

What was the availability in the west?  Would it have been only in towns near the RR?  Would it have been in the chuck wagon?

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[Delmonico]

I've never seen it mentioned as a chuckwagon item, but it shows up in recipes and lists of store goods fairly often by at least the later 1870's.  One of the items I consider more of a luxury item, but most of us fill that bill anyway.

[Mogorilla]

I will have to do some digging, but my German ancestors were making it on the Illinois farm in the 1880s for sure and specifically called it CATSup.   I am thinking it was strictly slow cooked tomatoes, lots of salt, some vinegar and sugar.   My sister has the recipe book that was written by my GG Grandma for my Grandma as a wedding present in 1908.  She doesn't like to share and doesn't think I can appreciate family info as most of these people were dead before I was born.

[Forty Rod]

I made some mushroom ketsup once from an old recipe.  Lost the recipe years ago, but I remember the ketsup...very tasty but a pain to make.

[Sisquoc]

The FDA considers catsup and ketchup to be two different commodities, with ketchup being the spicier of the two. 

[Forty Rod]

Sisquoc, my love,----------the FDA and the horse they rode in on.  The FDA thinks tomato ketchup is a vegetable.  Wadda they know?  They're a government agency.

BTW, how are you doin'?

[Delmonico]

Don't get me started on them poop heads at the FDA.  I read they are going to require big Warning Labels for foods containing any of 6 items folks can be deadly allergic to.  Not a bad idea, except none of the 6 are blue or similar cheeses that contain mold of the Pennicilum phylem, which me and both my daughters are allergic to and all 3 of us has had it sneek up on us in items of processed food.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Don't get me started on them poop heads at the FDA.

I agree with you on this for many reasons.

[Singing Bear]

Whoa, Del.  Never thought of that.  I'm allergic to P also, but do like my blue cheese dressing.  Have not had any ill effects.  Maybe the toxins got processed out?   

[Delmonico]

SB, there is some risk for you on the Blue cheese.  A lot depends on the degree of sensitivity.  Moldy bread will give me a bad case of the hives where I touch it.  Once I ended up grabbing a loaf out of the bread box that was real bad and washed my hands right away, but still made a trip to the ER.  didn't even think about the glass of tea sitting beside bread box.

We tossed out the bread box because anything that was in it gave me a mild reaction, it was contaminated.  Also some folks are only allergic to synthetic P and not the natural molds.  Allergies are complexed and not understood fully.  But these should be included for those who run this risk.

But then it might shock some folks to learn they are eating mold.

[Delmonico]

I was looking through the book "The Peacemakers" by RL Wilson and noticed on page 187 the copy of the Friday, June 20, 1856 copy of the San Francisco Herald, under the knives.  On Thursday 100 dozen pint jars of Tomato Ketchup were sold from goods unloaded off a ship.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy Del,

Thanks!  What kind of glass jar would have been used? Sealed by a cork and then covered with wax?  Thanks!

[Delmonico]

Sould be a zinc lid Mason type with a rubber gasket.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Thanks for reminding me about the "P" allergy, Del. I'm allergic to it too and never gave a thought to Bleu Cheese. Although the only bleu that I eat is in salad dressing and not much of that if I can get some other one that I like instead........Buck

[Delmonico]

Degrees of the problem vary, mine is very severe as you know.  The Granddaughter had an ear infection and was given Amoxacillian a couple of weeks ago.  I made them rinse the outside of the bottle after each use and wash the medicine dropper rather than toss it in the sink.