What is the worst western movie that you've ever seen?

[Bugscuffle]

Irrespective of what perspective you view the "settling" of the west and the kill off of the buffalo, any depiction of these occurrences will be judged to be biased from one side or the other. I speak now ONLY of the Plains Indian, not because they were the only Indians, but because they were the most numerous and the biggest threat to the white man’s advance into the West.. I absolutely am NOT demeaning Native Americans. I am sure that there are some that may believe that what I am about to say is demeaning, but what I say here is simple truth and history will bear me out on this. The facts are that the white man and the Indian could not possibly peacefully coexist under the conditions that existed at the time of "first encounter" considering the nomadic hunter gatherer existence of the Plains Indian versus the stationary agrarian lifestyle of the white man. The buffalo by their numbers posed a severe hazard to the farmer in the West. You can imagine what a herd of 5,000 buffalo would do to a crop. The territorial nature of the Indians, developed over centuries of boundary wars with neighboring tribes made the peaceful coexistence of the Indian and the fenced off farms and pastures of the white man. Even among the white men those fences cause numerous deaths and range wars. The huge technological advantage that the white man had in the beginning made the outcome of the encounter inevitable. When the technologically advanced civilization, meaning the metallurgy, the plow, the gun, the various mechanical devices that the white man had, met up with the stone age civilization, meaning that the Indian knew nothing of metallurgy, iron, mechanical devices, the wheel, a written language, it was inevitable that the Indian would perish. The Native American did adapt to the modern weaponry of the white man and used it quite effectively, but by the time that they had these weapons in  numbers the white man had encroached so far into the Indians' territory that the Native Americans were surrounded and outnumbered by the white man.

Do you really believe political or social data shown in entertainment movies to be correct?

Bill

[Delmonico]

DWW, besides Costner, they got the tribes mixed up as to who was friendly and who wasn't, I know a Lakota who would like to hang Costner's scalp on a tepee pole.  Never met a Pawnee that was to hip on the screw up either.

As for Fort Sedgewick and the BS about it, lets just say you don't want to open than can of worms with me, but it was Camp Rankin at the time, not what the movies says it was.  I had distant relatives who served there and they didn't abandon the post like in the movie.  Let's just say for people in my region who understand the history of the area think it's a big an insult as making a movie where the guys abandoned the Alomo, don't think it would rate real high in Texas, have Costner come save the place in the movie and,,,,,,,,  Yeah it don't take much of a genius to figure out how that would fly. 

Anyone need any other reasons to hate the movie?   The fact they were stupid enough to give it awards also burns my but, next thing you know Costner will be given a Nobel Prize for something.

[Delmonico]

Did I mention I can't stand Costner ad any other gun grabbing Liberal like him?

[Advertising]

[Stillwater]

The fact they were stupid enough to give it awards also burns my but, next thing you know Costner will be given a Nobel Prize for something.

Butt is spelled with two t's...

Bill

[Stillwater]

Irrespective of what perspective you view the "settling" of the west and the kill off of the buffalo, any depiction of these occurrences will be judged to be biased from one side or the other. I speak now ONLY of the Plains Indian, not because they were the only Indians, but because they were the most numerous and the biggest threat to the white man’s advance into the West.. I absolutely am NOT demeaning Native Americans. I am sure that there are some that may believe that what I am about to say is demeaning, but what I say here is simple truth and history will bear me out on this. The facts are that the white man and the Indian could not possibly peacefully coexist under the conditions that existed at the time of "first encounter" considering the nomadic hunter gatherer existence of the Plains Indian versus the stationary agrarian lifestyle of the white man. The buffalo by their numbers posed a severe hazard to the farmer in the West. You can imagine what a herd of 5,000 buffalo would do to a crop. The territorial nature of the Indians, developed over centuries of boundary wars with neighboring tribes made the peaceful coexistence of the Indian and the fenced off farms and pastures of the white man. Even among the white men those fences cause numerous deaths and range wars. The huge technological advantage that the white man had in the beginning made the outcome of the encounter inevitable. When the technologically advanced civilization, meaning the metallurgy, the plow, the gun, the various mechanical devices that the white man had, met up with the stone age civilization, meaning that the Indian knew nothing of metallurgy, iron, mechanical devices, the wheel, a written language, it was inevitable that the Indian would perish. The Native American did adapt to the modern weaponry of the white man and used it quite effectively, but by the time that they had these weapons in  numbers the white man had encroached so far into the Indians' territory that the Native Americans were surrounded and outnumbered by the white man.

The above pontificating didn't answer the question about the way movies try to influence history, and events, in movie goers minds.

There willl never be a meeting of the minds, in modern times, about the expansion or settlement of the west. Manifest destiiny means something else today, than it did one hundred and fifty years ago. Modern man wasn't around to see, and participate, in the dynamics of western living, so modern man has a hard time understanding the dynamics of civilization in the mid to late 1800's.

My grandfather, (1850 - 1950) who arrived in Montana in 1866, used to tell me stories of Indian atrocities that were done within a week after any treaty was signed.

What the Army, and The early iterations of the modern BIA, didn't understand, was just because one Indian, such as Red Cloud was an acknowledged chief, he didn't have complete authority over every body in the tribe.

The Indian tribes were very democratic in that a consensus of action was developed around their council fires. This consensus still wasn't obeyed by everybody in the tribe.

Young warriors wanted to go out and build reputations for themselves, which usually meant lifting the hair of white settlers. This would bring punishment from the Army and the whole circle of treaty and depredating violence would start all over again.

Bill

[Shotgun Franklin]

Whites are continually blamed for breaking treaties but If you read accounts of the time it was usually the natives that first broke'm. A lot of history, as taught, is pure bunk. Did you know that the very first Indian War started when friendly Indians launched a surprise attack on Jamestown? If not for the fact that a ship with a couple of cannon happened to be there Jamestown might have been wiped out.

[Delmonico]

Butt is spelled with two t's...

Bill

If that is all you have to whine about, take it to the grammer Nazis and tell them to kis my as.

[Stillwater]

Whites are continually blamed for breaking treaties but If you read accounts of the time it was usually the natives that first broke'm. A lot of history, as taught, is pure bunk. Did you know that the very first Indian War started when friendly Indians launched a surprise attack on Jamestown? If not for the fact that a ship with a couple of cannon happened to be there Jamestown might have been wiped out.

I have a book, written at about 1900, that attempts to record every incident between the Indians and the White man. While is is true that the Indians broke most treatys almost immediately, a lot of blame must also be attached to prospectors. The prospectors were usully in the mountains prospecting before any treaties were signed.

I agree with you about how history has been used and abused in our school systems.

Bill

[PJ Hardtack]

Yup, them damn Injuns just hadda go, one way or t'other. Just like the Armenians, Jews and Serbian, Croatians, et al that were part of an ethnic cleansing program to make way for the 'new order'.

Nothing new about it, it's been a recurring theme throughout history, played out in several cultures throughout history. The Bible is full of stories about wars of annihilation where every man, woman, child and head of livestock was put to the sword.

In the case of the Indians, they were a paleolithic (stone age) culture until first contact with Europeans who had steel, horses and guns and germs. The wonder is that any of them survived at all.

[Bonnie_blue1861]

Getting back to Western movies that were not so hot...I had been really bored a while back and Encore Westerns was showing "Calamity Jane"

The movie is called a "Wild West"-themed film musical released in 1953, loosely based on the life of Wild West heroine Calamity Jane and explores an alleged romance between Calamity Jane and Wild Bill Hickok in the American Old West. The film starred Doris Day as the title character and Howard Keel as Hickok.

It was just too over the top and hokey, especially Doris Day's acting...My review is don't waste your time watching it...instead cut your grass or take the wife grocery shopping.

The movie was of course considered a musical and I guess I have to think about in that context...but I still don't know how I made it past the first 10 minutes, let along the whole movie.

Also...the real Calamity Jane AKA Martha Jane Cannary Burke, didn't look anything like Doris Day.

[Bugscuffle]

The above pontificating didn't answer the question about the way movies try to influence history, and events, in movie goers minds.

How is the stating of facts “pontificating”? There are no opinions in my posting, only facts.

There willl never be a meeting of the minds, in modern times, about the expansion or settlement of the west. Manifest destiiny means something else today, than it did one hundred and fifty years ago. Modern man wasn't around to see, and participate, in the dynamics of western living, so modern man has a hard time understanding the dynamics of civilization in the mid to late 1800's.

You are right about this, but it will only be because people in general do not view the situation from both sides.

My grandfather, (1850 - 1950) who arrived in Montana in 1866, used to tell me stories of Indian atrocities that were done within a week after any treaty was signed.

And??? Just what does this have to do with the discussion? Or is this jut an excuse to vilify the Native Americans?

What the Army, and The early iterations of the modern BIA, didn't understand, was just because one Indian, such as Red Cloud was an acknowledged chief, he didn't have complete authority over every body in the tribe.

I disagree. They understood the problem perfectly; they just didn’t have an answer for it. What they ended up doing was very close to genocide.

The Indian tribes were very democratic in that a consensus of action was developed around their council fires. This consensus still wasn't obeyed by everybody in the tribe.
Young warriors wanted to go out and build reputations for themselves, which usually meant lifting the hair of white settlers. This would bring punishment from the Army and the whole circle of treaty and depredating violence would start all over again.

I personally agree with your view on how the hierarchy of the Indian community worked, but it just reinforces my view that the melding of the two societies was impossible under the conditions that existed at the time and we will not understand why it was impossible until we can see the situation from the Indian point of view. When we do see it clearly we will understand that we should have reacted differently. How? That is a question that is too late to answer and would be completely hypothetical.
Bill

[Old Doc]

The most recent worst western was The Assasination of The Outlaw Jesse James, the Brad Pitt stinker. Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid is the only western I ever walked out on but I may have just been in a bad mood that night .

[Stillwater]

The most recent worst western was The Assasination of The Outlaw Jesse James, the Brad Pitt stinker. Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid is the only western I ever walked out on but I may have just been in a bad mood that night .

I bought the movie, watched a little bit of it, and returned it the next day... It was so damned bad it left me gunshy of any more modern (revisionist) so-called western movies.

Bill

[c.o.jones]

THE TERROR OF TINY TOWN...............A WESTERN WITH ALL MIDGET ACTORS

[Russ McCrae]

'Texas Rangers', it was supposed to be based on McNelly's Rangers. Historically it stank to High Heaven.

It moved the punk'ed goober up to the top of my list of people to whack like a surly bartender list first time he opened his mouth

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I don't know about worst, buy Yul Brynner as Sabata in that ludicrous out fit and gun-that-never-was has got to come close ...

TTFN,

[Stillwater]

Hi,

I don't know about worst, buy Yul Brynner as Sabata in that ludicrous out fit and gun-that-never-was has got to come close ...

TTFN,

I just watched that on the Encore western channel. It was almost unwatchable. I kept waiting for something interesting to happen, but nothing interesting ever did.

Bill

[Old Doc]

I just watched tht on the Encore western channel. It was almost unwatchable. I kept waiting for something interesting to happen, but nothing interesting ever did.

Bill

Quite a come down from The King and I .He probably needed the money to treat his lung cancer.

[Stillwater]

Quite a come down from The King and I .He probably needed the money to treat his lung cancer.

Brynners Sabata movie, was a monster come-down from the "King and I," and the "Magnificent Seven."

Bill

[GunClick Rick]

The movie "Delmonicos" the popcorn sucks too~