Replacing the loading lever on a Remington New Model Army (Pietta) C&B

[Mad_Dog]

So I've been enjoying my new Pietta Remington "1858", but sometimes the balls are difficult to load.  I mean *very* difficult.  I haven't verified yet that they're pure lead, nor mic'd them to be sure they're really .451, but it was suggested to me that given the effort I was having to put in that they are either oversized or not pure lead.  I also noticed though that sometimes the plunger seemed to "catch" on the edge of the cylinder rather than fitting smoothly into the chamber.

Unfortunately this past weekend at my second NCOWS event, the loading lever snapped off while I was loading for the 4th stage .  I was surprised and disappointed to have my gun break after only loading 45 rounds, but I should have stopped when it became so difficult to load and assessed what was wrong rather than "forcing" the rounds in.

I have a new loading lever assembly enroute, and I'm hoping to do a little kitchen-table gunsmithing when it gets here.  Is it really as simple as removing the pivot screw, taking out whats left of the old assembly and putting in the new one, then replacing the screw?  Should I replace the screw while I'm at it?

Also, how do I ensure this doesn't happen again?  I'll be looking up the "pencil test" for lead today and plan to test my lead balls tonight.  I'll also bring one in to work and have one of the mechanikers mic it for me.  If those both check out, though, how do I ensure that interference between the face of the cylinder and the plunger doesn't wreak havoc again?  Will boring out the chambers to slightly larger (something I plan to do anyways) help?

thanks,
 Mad Dog

[Billy Bristol]

It is that simple to change. I would look at the screw first to see if it was bent or damaged before replacing it.
Why would you want to open up the chambers?
The lever should fit into the chamber with no problem unless you are not lined up properly. When I load mine I put the loading lever onto the ball lightly then give the cylinder a slight wiggle with light pressure on against the ball to make sure I am alined properly.
If you are having too much trouble pushing the balls in then they are probably too big or lead is not soft. I have seen people selling harder lead online. You should be using pure lead which is soft.

[pony express]

Where did you get the balls? If they are Hornady, I've never had a problem loading them. If they're cast ones, they may have used too hard alloy. If it's soft lead, youy should be able to dent it with a thumbnail. I've even used .457 balls in my 1860s without that much effort. Maybe they're WAY wrong size, like .490 or something?

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[Thumper]

If you're having trouble loading after firing, whether it's the second cylinder or the twenty second, your problem is fouling build up, otherwise you would have had the same problem with the 1st cylinder !! Clean the chambers between each set and you'll never have the problem again. Cleaning recommendation:
1. 44 cal wire bore brush, action like you're screwing it into the cylinder
2. Light spray of Windex on a dedicated felt bore swab, same screwing action
3. Dry with one or 2 wipes with clean patches

[pony express]

I've never had to do all that cleaning just to be able to load the cylinder, I routinely shoot my 1860s full five or six stage matches with nothing but wiping off the exterior maybe once. Of course a Remington may need a bit of attention to the base pin sooner than a colt, but that has nothing to do with loading the chambers. A fouled chamber isn't going to cause a broken loading lever. My guess is either balls WAY to hard, or WAY too big, or maybe both.

[Mad_Dog]

Why would you want to open up the chambers?

Everything I've read indicates that generally the chambers on these italian clones are smaller than the bore, and I was planning to remedy that after I measure both to verify whether this is the case with my revolver.

The lever should fit into the chamber with no problem unless you are not lined up properly.

I was not impressed with the way the lever fit into the chamber.  When the cylinder "clicked" into place under the loading lever, it was slightly off-center.  To the point where even without a ball sometimes the plunger would hang on the edge of the cylinder rather than slip into it.  When I was loading and I suspected this was happening I would pull the pin in order to have a little more leeway moving the cylinder around to get it centered.  This may have been a bad idea though.

Where did you get the balls?

I got them from a friend who cast them.  I had a similar problem with the .454 ROA-DD Big Lube Bullets that I got from Springfield Slim.  I specifically requested those be pure lead, but they're .003 larger than these balls (the box they're in is marked "cast .451").

I'll report back with more info when I'm able to test the lead hardness and mic the balls.  In the meanwhile I give Pietta Two Thumbs Up in the customer service department for sending me a new part to fix the gun .

-Mad Dog

[Billy Bristol]

MD,
When I load my remmie I do it with hammer at half cock. this allows the cylinder to rotate freely to get better line up. If you are going full cock then your timing may be a little out and that is why the loading ram is catching the edge of the chamber. At full cock or with hammer down the cylinder is locked by the lug and does not move. So if timing is off so is loading lever.

[Mad_Dog]

MD,
When I load my remmie I do it with hammer at half cock. this allows the cylinder to rotate freely to get better line up.

I do the same, but my cylinder only rotates freely in one direction.  There seems to be some sort of ratchet mechanism preventing me from rotating it "Backwards"

-Mad Dog

[Billy Bristol]

MD,
It should allow you enough backward rotation to line up the chamber just as you are under the ram before stopping. I know mine is under the ram just before the pawl clicks to stop it from backing up. If I go too far then I can't back it up and have to either rotate to next chamber or rotate all the way around again. If you go til it clicks then you will be rubbing on the chamber which will create a lot of drag. That's what it sounds like to me. It's hard to tell without having the firearm in my hands. But that is what it sounds like.

[The Trinity Kid]

This probably isn't very helpful, but I fired seven cylinders Sunday afternoon without a problem.  I do have a couple questions for you, what size powder charge are you using, and are you using an over powder wad, or a filler?


--TK

[Mad_Dog]

I do have a couple questions for you, what size powder charge are you using, and are you using an over powder wad, or a filler?
--TK

All shots were fired with ~25g 3F Goex (using a 45ACP empty brass cartridge on a popsicle stick as a measure), no filler, no wad.  The first 25 shots were lubed conicals (DD-ROA Big Lubes).  The second 20 shots were with .451 round balls, no wad, but with moose-milk and a swab down the barrel between every cylinder.  (Gander Mountain was out of wads when I went to pick some up )

-Mad Dog

[The Trinity Kid]

Okay, just wandering if there possibly was too much in the chamber.   Guess not though.  Maybe the old loading lever didn't get completely finished and had a burr?
 Just in case you want it, here's the load I use.  30gr 3FG pyrodex with 2/3 of a 40 S&W case full of Cream Of Wheat, 451 round ball, seat and cover with a little Crisco. 

--TK

[The Trinity Kid]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. On the SCORRS website there are dis-assembly instructions for the New Army which should help if you want to take it apart.  It has a fairly thorough description of removing/replacing the loading lever.  It's under "Gunsmithing" and Dis-assembly Instructions for 1858 New Army Pietta.  Hope it helps.

www.SCORRS.org

--TK

[Mad_Dog]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. On the SCORRS website there are dis-assembly instructions for the New Army which should help if you want to take it apart.

Thanks, TK!  Looks like I've got some reading material while I wait for my part .

-Mad Dog

[The Trinity Kid]

Glad I could help.    Actually, I just took mine apart for the first time Monday.   They are easy to understand, and the Remington revolver is quite simple in design, which is nice. Have fun with your gun smithing .

--TK.

[Mad_Dog]

Boy howdy do I feel like a doofus.  I fingernail-checked both my conicals and my balls.  I was able to put a dent in the conicals with my fingernail.  I was able to mark, but not dent the balls. The balls are definately harder than the conicals, so I'm guessing they're wheel-weights .

Are these balls a complete loss, or would an off-gun cylinder loading stand render them usable?  At this point I'm paranoid about breaking the lever again and am contemplating such a loader even after I find some pure lead balls.

-Mad Dog

[Billy Bristol]

The seperate loaders are nice. I have one I made because I have 4 cylinders I load up. They do push the balls in a lot easier than with the lever.

[Mad_Dog]

My new loading lever got here today
And my screwdriver didn't fit as well as I thought, and I boogered up the loading-lever screw something fierce .  That's one soft screw!!!  I'm thinking I may have to buy a new screw and drill the old one out, but I'm worried about making it worse.  I might be able to cut a new slot in the top, but i doubt that's going to work much better .

Also, is there an affordable "gunsmith" screwdriver that fits this screw?  I thought about buying one, but didn't know how to tell which one would fit, and didn't really want to sink the $$ into a big set.  Guess I should have!

Would a "professional" smith charge very much for a salvage operation in a case like this?

-Mad Dog

[Pettifogger]

If you shoot much at all you need a good set of hollow ground screwdrivers.  As you have discovered the .39 cent screwdrivers from Ace ain't gonna do the job.  You are shooting C&B which are taken apart a lot more than smokeless cartridge guns.  Buy a basic set from a variety of vendors and your life (and guns) will be easier.

[Mad_Dog]

If you shoot much at all you need a good set of hollow ground screwdrivers.  As you have discovered the .39 cent screwdrivers from Ace ain't gonna do the job.

Yup, live and learn.  Now I get to buy a good set of screwdrivers AND a replacement screw.  Not a terribly expensive lesson, but getting the screw out now is gonna be a PITA.

-Mad Dog