gun oil of the 19th century?

[nativeshootist]

Does anyone have a clear idea on what the gun oils in the 19th century contained or if they used any oil they got? what i googled suggested whale oil or sperm......

[Blair]

nativeshooter,

Whale oil is rather generic by Species definition. "Oil from any Whale!". Come from rendering down the blubber.
Sperm Whale oil is rather Special in that it only comes from one species of Whale. The Sperm Whale. Come from the large head dome of the Sperm Whale. It requires no rendering!

If you want something that is most like the generic Whale oil of the period, I would suggest going to the Drug Store and buying "Cod Liver Oil".
Newer methods of separating the oil from the Cods liver means it is less fishy smelling and tasting than the older methods.
Just a suggestion on my part.
My best,
 Blair

[Delmonico]

Cod Liver Oil has an iodine value 147.5 to 183.1 which puts it firmly in the drying oils class, great way to make a gummy mess inside a gun.   In fact it was used in the past as a base for paint and there still are some paints that are cod liver oil based.  A bad idea to use it as gun oil, may as well use linseed or tung oil.

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[Fox Creek Kid]

I have seen Sperm Whale oil mentioned in many primary sources as well as seen surviving bottles marked for guns. Ironically, chemists say jojoba oil is practically identical in its properties.

[Delmonico]

And the so called sperm oil was not the oil rendered from the normal fatty body tissue but was specifically rendered from an organ in the head that had to do with vocalization.   

Till the early 70's ATF contained sperm oil.   It is actually considered a liquid wax and is totally non-drying, one reason it was so usesful for delicate items like watches.   

Sweet Oil, aka Olive oil was also used sometimes, Olive Oil has a low iodine value and falls below the level for drying oils and semi drying oils. 

All interesting from a historical point of view but I will keep using modern gun oils.

[Grenadier]

I have read where people have had good luck with using jojoba oil (actually a wax) as a replacement for sperm whale oil.

[St. George]

What's the real purpose behind this question?

Go the Public Library and pull out the reprint catalogs from 'Sears, Roebuck & Co., and 'Montgomery Ward's & Co., and you'll see exactly what was available for purchase during the era.

Most of it's still being made - use that, or better yet - use the modern version that replaced it.

Scouts Out!

[RattlesnakeJack]

For what it may be worth, there is a relatively new gun oil product on the market which is all organic and purportedly formulated to closely duplicate the properties of whale oil - http://mobygreenproducts.com/products.html

I have not yet tried it myself, but have heard good things about it and hope to give it a try.

This chap used it as a bore-cleaner after firing about two dozen rounds from a Martini-Henry rifle (... not really its intended purpose, but perhaps a real "torture test" ...) and seems favorably impressed -

[Delmonico]

Most likely someone with fancy marketing for Jojoba, you can tack the "Green" name on about anything and charge more for it.

[Delmonico]

If you google Jojoba oil it is interesting the variance in prices, depending more on what they are trying to sell it to you for, if you buy it just plain with no mention of what uses it's for you can get it for about 1/10th what the Green Moby person gets for it and from his PDF description that is what it is.

[Blair]

OK, what would be a good modern alternative to a 19th Century gun oil?
All oils tend to dry out over time without cleaning and/or refreshing over time.
My best,
 Blair

[Delmonico]

Well if you read all the posts you might get the idea that the jojoba we've been talking about would be the thing to use since it closely duplicates the sperm oil (not whale oil).

[St. George]

'Break-Free CLP' - that's what the Army supplies and has for a long time, because it 'works' and it's been working in some austere environments as well as some moist ones.

This conversation is beginning to sound like one of those Civil War ones where everybody's trying to out-do one another in 'their' idea of 'authenticity' - as in:

"I'm more period-correct than you, because 'I' (bright little star that I am) lubricate 'my' firearms with sperm oil...'  (But I'll never mention that I shoot Ruger Vaqueros and Marlins and products of the entire manufacturing regions of Sunny Italy...)

Lubricants changed over time - each becoming better at both cleaning, lubricating and preventing rust - use them or don't.

I guarantee you that if it appears in print in some 'Old West' magazine, or any C&WAS rag that 'someone, somewhere's buddy's brother-in-law's high school kid's janitor's cousin knows a guy at the gun shop whose Great-Granddaddy only ever oiled his shootin' iron with butter, a man would be wise to stock up - 'or' argue that margarine spread was better...

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

So authentic you are no longer authentic, reminds me of a book I read one time, something about somebody in an attic.   I use one of his mistakes that is repeated in camps and on shows on the History Channel and the likes all the time.       

Heck most people don't even get the humor in this one.

[St. George]

That one's titled 'Confederates In the Attic' by Tony Horowitz.

An 'interesting' thing to read...

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

That one's titled 'Confederates In the Attic' by Tony Horowitz.

An 'interesting' thing to read...

Scouts Out!

Interesting yes, but the subject of it is one of those that tries so hard he goes over the other way and is still not that correct.   


This whole conversation is interesting because most CAS shooters will never go out and do a living history demonstration for the public where at least the knowledge of these little details are useful.   Few still will go to true period sources to find out it what a second or third person source has told them is really true.  Asking general questions on a board is not the way to be sure you are getting the true history of something, that requires pure dedicated research like you and I do.   

[Blair]

Well. I did read all the postings, along with others from other sites.
I also know that Jojoba get very stiff in cold weather. This info comes from people that have used it as an alternative to the whale oil of the period into the late 1860's time period.
I have not tried it because it comes from Spanish California and would have been very difficult to get prior to 1849 on the East coast of the US. There is also no mention of it's use within the US Military documentation as a lubricant.
However, whale oil was! (not specifically "Sperm Whale" oil but generic Whale oil)
I don't know if you have ever tried original Whale oil, but I can tell you from my experience with it that it is very 'fishy' smelling. Something that most folks wont like today.
How do I know this? I still have 1 and 1/2 quarts of real whale oil left of 2 gallons I bought from an old Blacksmith shop outside Thurmont, MD. Once you get over the smell... it is the best for lube for metal and for doing stock work.
My best,
 Blair

[Delmonico]

Read my above post, do you really go out and do Living History demos and teach people things or just sit at the computer thinking about things to worry about that has no relevance to anything?   

If you have show us some pictures of you doing it, because I doubt you ever really have.

[Blair]

Del,

You would be very much mistaken to assume such a thing.
But I also know your MO.
If you have no answer or reply you start to attack the persons integrity. Same old BS for you!

How about this... I'll put about two ounces of the whale oil I have into a small bottle and send it to you for you to try. (send me your mailing address) it is free for you to use as you see fit.

One last thing... How would posting pictures of this oils use let you or anyone else know just what the oils was being used?

[St. George]

Settle down guys, the poster who wanted to know about it hasn't been back.

I'm just happy someone's actually oiling something - that didn't happen a lot on the Frontier - their idea was to just oil and oil and oil and the Devil take the hindmost - given the detritus found on the internals of the many antique pieces I've cleaned.

Everybody take a step back.

Scouts Out!