H&R rear sight

[Galen]

Greetings. I have an H&R trapdoor carbine with a Williams buckhorn rear sight. I purchased new in 1971. I am planning on installing a Pedersoli 1873 trapdoor rear sight. Can anyone provide the distance from muzzle to front sight screw hole? Also your thoughts on changing the front sight? Thank you

[Drydock]

On my Pedersoli M1873 carbine the distance muzzle to first screw center is 16 1/8".

If I remember right, the front sight on the H&R is a dovetailed post.  I'd leave it alone myself, maybe dress it up if its one that overhangs the dovetail.  I believe S&S has the correct front sight base if you want to go that route,  maybe mount one to a correctly contoured dovetail.

[Galen]

Oops! Need to know the distance from muzzle to rear sight front screw hole. Sorry for the mistake.

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[Drydock]

I knew what you meant.  16 1/8"

[St. George]

The front sight is a post on a dovetail.

The rear sight - if replaced with a Pedersoli or an original Springfield Armory rear - has a base that will require drilling and tapping, plus, it should be marked with a 'C' for 'Carbine' and the sight ladder should reflect the range.

They make replicas - re-worked 'Rifle' sight ladders, actually - but the original sight base bottom edge 'will' overlap the tops of the 'Harrington & Richardson' lettering once installed.

Scouts Out!

[Drydock]

I can say that the Pedersoli M1873 carbine sight is correctly calibrated for the .45-55-405 load, once the front sight is ground to the correct height.  Also, the original M1873 sights were NOT marked "C" or "R", that came with the later sights.

[Good Troy]

Does any one know if the hole spacing on the original rear sights matches that of the Pedersoli rear ladder sight?
My carbine had an original style sight marked "R", and I replaced it with a buckhorn.  Now, I'm wanting to use the Pedersoli style sight....as long as I don't have to drill it again.

[Drydock]

its the same

[St. George]

Yes, the original rear sights on the Model 1873 weren't marked - however, in reading what he wants to do and knowing what Pedersoli offers, that rear sight happens to be what replaced the Model 1873.

It's the Model 1879, and it's that sight that I was referring to.

As an aside, with regard to original rear sights...

The originals were installed at the Arsenal and the screws were un-slotted - being screwed tight by a fixture not unlike a collet on your drill press.

They could be replaced on earlier weapons, and were - and the replacement 'kit' consisted of the sight (marked with a 'C' or an 'R' accordingly) and two slotted screws.

The hole spacing remained the same throughout production of the Trapdoor, and any sight could fit any Trapdoor.

Spare Carbine rear sights were always in short supply, so many 'bad' carbines were robbed of them and were substituted with 'Rifle' rear sights by unscrupulous dealers over the years - today, legitimately marked ones can bring almost the equal of an average-condition Trapdoor - if not more.

As to H&R Trapdoors - many parts were, in fact, originals - most coming from W.Stokes Kirk and S&S Firearms - why they never added the Model 1879 rifle rear sight to the Officer's Rifle is a mystery - God knows they had plenty of them - and why they put the smaller metal pistol grip on the carbines is a mystery as well, since those never had them originally - but hey...

The H&R pistol grips are smaller than originals, because the wrist thickness of the originals is wider, by the way - even the current repro pistol grips reflect this.
(To eliminate this, copying the wooden one from Pedersoli and using American Walnut will fix that problem, because those H&R ones seem a bit hard to find, and I've been looking since someone walked away with mine.)

The last iteration was built by Navy Arms by using up the H&R spares when they bought up the inventory, and that's when those Williams rear sights showed up.

Scouts Out!

[Drydock]

Pedersoli uses the M1873 sight, not the M1877 or 1879.

[Galen]

My H&R is the Calvary model 171, and came equipped with a Williams buckhorn rear sight. Very well made. The quality of this carbine is equal to an M14 I was issued while in the army.

[St. George]

The sight Pedersoli offers for sale on their website is the 1879.

If they offer a different one, it wasn't shown.

Scouts Out!

[Galen]

Purchased my H&R trapdoor carbine in 1971. Way before Navy Arms was offering them.

[Drydock]

Ahh!  I assumed (always a mistake) that Pedersoli only offered the 1873 that comes stock on the rifles and carbines.  But I see now that they also offer the M1879 rifle sight on the optional sights page.  Been a long time since I've been thru that website.

I'd still want the carbine sight out of replacement parts, but its nice to have the option. 

[Pitspitr]

Yeah, all the Pedersoli's I'd seen had the M-1873 (or a somewhat off copy of it) rear sight except their long range model which has a vernier tang rear sight. Looking at their website it does appear that some of their current offerings do indeed have a copy of the 1879's.