oal for 40 60 uberti

[Roosterman]

having some feed issues.... everything I have tried jams.

[Abilene]

What do you mean by 'jams' ?  Jams in the action trying to feed?  Jams in the chamber (bullet hitting the rifling) ?  The max OAL for any toggle link gun is the same as the length of the brass carrier.  Turn the rifle over and measure the opening for the carrier.  That is your max OAL, minus maybe 1 or 2 thousandths for wiggle room.  Minimum OAL depends on the ramp location on the carrier but these rifle rounds are probably never too short.

[Roosterman]

Jams in the carrier. Looks like I'm going wat to short. Thanks!

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[Abilene]

If the round is too short, then loading a single round into the magazine will feed fine, but if you load two then it will jam.  If it is too long, then a single round loaded into the magazine will jam and not allow the carrier to rise.

[Black River Smith]

Two sources I have state the 40-60 Win OAL is 2.10".  They come from a Cartridge Conversion book and the Cartridges of the World manual.

A third source is the safety manual from Chaparral that came with my 45-60.  It states the OAL for a 40-60 is 2.25".

Maybe Dusty will come in and give you the final length of his 40-60 cartridges that he makes with his original Win loading tool.  Quit honestly that would be the best reference to work off of.  They made the tools to make cartridges to work in their rifles.

Hope this gets you somewhere.
BRS

PS -- Come to think of it you have that Uberti from Buffalo Arm.  Abilene stated elsewhere that all the brass lifters are the same length in Uberti rifles, so what length do you load to, in your 50-95 or 45-60.  That same length should be what your 40-60 could handle.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Well, for what it may be worth, all of the four original cartridges for which the Model 1876 was chambered were, supposedly, of exactly the same length …



Most references seem to indicate that the Model 1876 action was designed for cartridges "up to 2.25 inches" in over all length, while it would seem a lot of loading data show an maximum over all length of 2.255 inches, and a minimum of about 2.15 inches … so there is really only about a tenth of an inch allowance to play with there ...

OAL of the cartridge is, indeed, quite critical in the original Winchester toggle-link actions (1866, 1873, 1876)  - and also in reproductions which follow that design without modification - because, as I understand it, none of them incorporate any sort of mechanical "cartridge stop" at the lifter end of the magazine tube. 

Rather, it is the cartridge sitting on the lifter (i.e. next to be elevated and chambered) which operates as the "cartridge stop": the nose of its bullet is in direct contact with the base of the next cartridge in line.  If the cartridge on the lifter is too short (such that the rim of the next cartridge in line in the magazine tube is allowed to protrude out over the front edge of the lifter) that too will prevent the lifter from rising - jam ! On the other hand, if that cartridge on the lifter is too long (such that its nose protrudes past the front edge of the lifter and into the magazine tube) that will prevent the lifter from elevating that cartridge - jam again! 



It is for this reason that a good crimp is important on cartridges used in these toggle-link action rifles … even if you are loading your cartridges to correct OAL, if the combination of magazine spring pressure and the jostling of cartridges in the magazine from recoil act to force your bullets back into the case ... thus reducing cartridge OAL … you'll end up with the same problem!

Although bullets working their way outward - i.e. thereby increasing cartridge OAL - is not likely to be a problem in tube-magazine rifles, but recoil can cause that to happen with improperly crimped bullets in revolvers … which in turn can interfere with cylinder rotation … more jams!

For these reasons, I am a very big fan of "factory crimp" dies …   

[Roosterman]

Thanks for all the info guys, greatly appreciated.  I have all my brass and bullets loaded up so I'll have to go shoot it all up before I can fiddle with this again.
BTW, I shot this rifle for the first time last weekend.  It's an incredible performer.  I shot the best 50 yard target of my life off hand with the first 5 shots out of the gun
 I'll post some pics.

[DrummerBoy]

Howdy Roosterman, DrummerBoy here.
Thanks for the 40-60 update! I just picked up mine from the local FFL shop, so I’m very interested in your posts! As you know my spare barrel slugged at .406 , like yours I think, and this one probably will too…somewhere I missed what you are using for bullets. I’m thinking I’ll get the 350 gr in .409 from Montana and the dies from that alphabet soup place, R2 D2 or thereabouts…the way things are I’ll probably have to make primers  out of stuff from Toys R Us and Hobby Lobby! Graf really came through with the Jamison Brass so I’ve got a start. Congratulations on piecing everything together AND Bravo Zulu on that offhand string!

[Roosterman]

I'm using an ACCURATE  mold 41-240D. It drops at 249gr. And .406. I have also tried a RCBS 41-260-FN that weighs 270-ish and drops at .406.
The lighter bullet shoots far better. I don't think  .409 is going to work for you.  Your bullet may be a bit too heavy too.

[DrummerBoy]

Howdy Roosterman,
THANKS for your informative reply!
Confession time: I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to absorb all the posts here on the several 1876 forums…the sheer volume of experience and information is astonishing, not to mention the length of time that the great majority of members have been posting, points to several lifetimes of dedication to the 1876. There’s always going to be neophytes like me and it seems that the “Bright Idea Fairy” always knows just where to alight. Thank you and all the other veterans for your generosity and patience!
Semper Fi

[Roosterman]

Howdy Roosterman,
THANKS for your informative reply!
Confession time: I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to absorb all the posts here on the several 1876 forums…the sheer volume of experience and information is astonishing, not to mention the length of time that the great majority of members have been posting, points to several lifetimes of dedication to the 1876. There’s always going to be neophytes like me and it seems that the “Bright Idea Fairy” always knows just where to alight. Thank you and all the other veterans for your generosity and patience!
Semper Fi

I'm in the same boat as you
 I've only started buying these uberti guns since late last fall. I have many hours of reading everything  on this forum to get to where I am at the moment.
 I've been distracted by a m1893 marlin made in 1896 for the past couple weeks. 38 55 and its a great shooter with a like new bore. Once I get over that I'll be back at the 40 60.

[DrummerBoy]

Roosterman,
Thanks! That 1893 sounds like a real prize!!
DB