Powder Selection

[Johnny McCrae]

I need to ask a basic question. When I started reloading in 2007 I did a lot of reading and pretty much taught myself how to reload. I bought the "Complete Reloading Guide" by John & Robert Traister. I've read most of it several times but I go to the powder manufacturer's websites when looking for load data. I usually start around the minimum load specified by the manufacturer and go from there. Is the powder manufacturer's recommendations the data to use?

For the first three years I used Trail Boss for everything. Now that I'm trying several different powders I want be sure I'm looking in the right area for load data.

[Coal Creek Griff]

Generally, powder maker's data is a good source. IMR, though, lists its lead bullet loads under "cowboy action data", which are reduced loads.  Data from other sources, like Lyman, can offer more substantial loads. I try to compare  sources and pay attention to listed pressure levels. I note that IMR has CUP levels in the 9500 range for lead bullets and 14000 range for jacketed bullets. The goals of those loads are clearly different.  I prefer full-power loads.

CC Griff

[Lumpy Grits]

9.0 of unique will be a 'hot' load.
Back it down to 6.5-7.0 and use a firm crimp.
I use Unique for all of my SASS/CAS loads including shotgun.

LG

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[Johnny McCrae]

Just got back from the range.

I tried three different powders all with 200 grain RNFP bullets (5-rounds each) in the following order:

1) UNIQUE: 7.0 grains then 8.0 grains then  8.5 grains then 9.0 grains. I had some with 9.5 grain loads that I did not shoot.
These rounds were definitely cleaner then Trail Boss. Lumpy was right on. 9.0 grains is a hot load.  7.0 grains felt very close to the 5.7 grain Trail Boss loads I've been using.

2) W231: 5.9 grains  3) CLAYS: 4.6 grains
Both W231and Clays were somewhat cleaner than Trail Boss. Both of the above loads felt close to 5.7 grain Trail Boss loads.

I finished up with some of my usual 5.7 grain Trail Boss loads which were dirtier. I'm going to try some more Unique with 7.0 grains.

[Lumpy Grits]

In the .44 mags I shoot in SASS/CAS. I'm run'n 6.5 Unique w/240rnfp and this load shoots very, very well.
With your .45 Colt, I would up the bullet weight to 220-230gn and try 6.5-7.0gn of Unique. Remember to use a firm crimp. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die.
LG

[Kent Shootwell]

Mr McCrae, here's some data that you may find interesting. 45 Colt chronograph results for a 5 1/2" Colt.

230 grain cast 6.9 grains of Winchester 231, 150 fed primer.
781 fps   extreme spread 115.1 fps

230 grain cast 5.3 grains of Hodgen Clays, 150 fed primer.
720 fps   extreme spread 83 fps

[Lumpy Grits]

WOW That is allot of ES.
How many rounds did you fire?
All the same make of brass?
How fresh is the battery in your crono?
LG

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy Gents,

Thanks again for all of your input.

I picked up a Lyman #49 Manual today at Cabella's. There was a line to the checkout counters almost the length of the store. It was worth the wait. Lots of extra information in the Lyman Manual.

I have a few 250 grain RNFP bullets on hand that I will try with my next lot of 200 grain bullets (Unique powder). I use a LEE factory crimp in every round I reload except for the .38 Specials in my LEE Pro 1000.

I'm going to consider getting myself a Chronograph.

[Kent Shootwell]

LG
I shoot 10 rounds over my Pact for any new load. The 45 colt is loaded in Winchester brass and I use a Lee factory crimp as a seperate op. Battery is fresh and I've learned years ago to keep a spare handy. An example of black powder use in a Sharps came out like this.

50 X 2.5"
88.5 grains 1FG GOEX compressed,  657 grain round nose cast 1-25, Bell case, CCI 250 primer, .060 card
1060 fps exteme spread 19.9 fps
45/70 gives simular results
 
With smokeless I generaly see bigger spead then black powder. Another example is 22-250 with every thing the same but powder.
36 grains 4064 powder e.s. 42.1 fps
35 grains 4895 powder e.s. 117.0 fps
 
Johnny
Concider the Pact chonograph. I've had mine for near 20 years with no problems and it has some dandy features.
You'll fine the 250 grain bullets hit higher but you problely know that already.

[Shotgun Franklin]

The ES on smokeless powder is why, until very recently, you could get better groups shooting BP than smokeless at long ranges.

[Cliff Fendley]

That plays a huge factor in accuracy from what I've found. I'm convinced that is why my CAS guns are more accurate with BP loads and why the C&B revolvers are so accurate. I have noticed my smokeless cowboy action loads do have a lot of ES.

When working up loads for hunting rifles and handguns ES is one of the things I pay closest attention too.

[Johnny McCrae]

Here is an update of my working with Unique powder. I'd like to mention a few things first. Although I've reloaded just about 40,000 rounds since 2007, I do not consider myself an expert or authority by any means on reloading. I taught myself how to reload and most of my reloading has been pretty straight forward. Up until recently all of my reloads have been for Cowboy Action Shooting (.38 Special, .44-40 WCF, .45 Colt, .45-70 Govt. etc.). The only powders I used were Trail Boss for the cartridges and Clays for my shotgun shells. Several months ago I started using W231 for my 380. I've found all of the recipes for the above on the IMR website

I'm sure glad I made this post on this Forum and here is why. What I was looking for is a cleaner burning powder than Trail Boss for my 1873 Uberti Winchester (.45 colt). When I went to the Alliant website to lookup the charge for Unique in .45 Colt for a 200 grain bullet, it said 9.5 grains for a 200 grain LSWC bullet and 8.5 grains for 230 grain RCBS mold #82308 bullet. I purchased a Lyman 49th Edition manual and it said 8.6 to 9.6 grains for a 200 grain #2 Alloy bullet. I took the advice given to me here on this forum and went to the range with the following rounds to test: 7.0 grains, 8.0 grains, 8.5 grains, 9.0 grains and 9.5 grains of Unique and a 200 grain RNFP bullet. I did not fire the 9.5 grain loads as IMHO they would have been too hot. IMHO 7.0 grains seemed to be just about right as these felt close to my Trail Boss rounds. Yesterday I went to the range with (50) rounds loaded with 7.0 grains of Unique. They worked fine and the accuracy was comparable to my Trail Boss rounds. One thing I did notice is that when the round fired I would feel some type of grit hitting my forehead lightly. This happened on my initial tests also. I then fired some Trail Boss rounds and did not notice this. I'm wondering what this could have been? The Unique does appear to be a cleaner burning powder but for now I'm going to stick with Trail Boss for my .45 Colt Cartridges.

I did try some Unique in my 1911 yesterday also. I tried (50) rounds with 5.0 grains and a 230 RN .45 ACP lead bullet. Alliant’s website says 5.8 grains for a 230 rain LRN Speer bullet. Lyman says 5.5 to 7.3 grains for a 225 grain #2 alloy bullet. There seems to be a fair difference between Alliant and Lyman. 5.0 grains seemed to be just about right IMHO. Does anyone use Unique for .45 ACP? How would Unique work in a 9mm round? My son just bought a 9mm for his wife and I want to do some reloading for him.

When I say a round feels similar to another or hot, it's just by my own feel. I'm seriously considering a Chronograph..

Again I'm sure glad I made this post. I learned some valuable lessons about powder selection and selecting powder charges to try. To me its looks like the best source of information is a Forum like this from people who have actual experience with these various combinations.

I’d like to thank everyone for their excellent help and advice given to me.

[Southpaw]

Personally I load 7.3 grs of Unique and found that perfect for me with 200 RNFP for rifles and pistols......

[Southpaw]

I use Bullseye in 45 ACP.............

[pakm]

I tried 6.5gr.s of trail Boss in my .45 schofield spencer. it's all right with either a 200gr rifle bullet or a 250-260 gr rifle bullet. they were pretty accurate, today i loaded the same bullets with Titegroup I did a few with unique and they worked just fine also.  anyone else reloading the .45 schofield in a spencer. and how do you tell if there is too much pressure in a spencer??flat primer or when you come home wearing the lever and loading block?

[Johnny McCrae]

I've been shooting .45 S&W (Schofield) rounds in my pistols for the last two two years. I use 4.2 grains of Trail Boss with a 200 grain RNFP bullet and Starline brass. IMR's website says 4.0 to 5.0 grains and Lyman says 4.2 to 5.7 grains. 4.2 grains seems to work pretty good  IMHO.