Dupont No.1 Rifle Powder "Wrapper" load data sheet

[Bryan Austin]

As many of you may know I have been diving deep into the archives for information on the old early smokeless powders. This search is mainly to relate to the 44-40 cartridges but I have and do have interests in other cartridges like the 30-30 and the 45-70.

Following closely to some of the 45-70 topics paralleled my path to such powders. Finding Dupont's early rifle powders lead me to available powders for handloaders. One popular powders was Dupont's No.1 Rifle Powder. Much resembling Fg granulars but Blonde in color, this powder was used in large case capacity black powder cartridges like the 50-100-450, 45-70, 40-82-260, 38-72-275....but also down to the 22 Winchester Single Shot. Dupont No.2 Rifle Powder was better adapted for the 44-40 and Revolver calibers like the 45 Colt, 41 Long Colt...38's and down to the 32's.

On the labels on the bottom of the kegs it says to "READ INSTRUCTIONS ON WRAPPER". Well, I have never seen one of these "wrappers" until a week ago when I spied one for sale. I jumped on it and below are some photos.

On one side it shows the load data and on the other side is the "Label". I copied the sheet that is 14 5'8" x 8" and demonstrated what it would look like wrapped around the keg.

The date on the wrapper is a form date...Form 57, 8-22-99

Well, I am having issues uploading photos.....I will see if I can fix this problem....always something!

[Bryan Austin]

The load data is located on the back of the wrapper. Below is a photo of the front which is what would be seen as it sat on a shelf of a store. What caught my attention was the wrinkles in the paper. When I guessed at measurements, they fit perfect to the Dupont round kegs. The person that was selling this had no idea to it's history but it still wasn't cheap!!

[Black River Smith]

This is great.  I have always been interested in the original Dupont Bulk Powder but never researched it like you have.

Thank you for buying, owning and Sharing a piece of history like this.

BRS

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[Bryan Austin]

This is great.  I have always been interested in the original Dupont Bulk Powder but never researched it like you have.

Thank you for buying, owning and Sharing a piece of history like this.

BRS

Thanks Black River Smith! 

I never intended to collect anything but I soon discovered that in order to get a good look and document certain items in detail, one must purchase most items. I do not want others to have to go through what I have been through so I am sharing everything I find!!! History is being lost, hiden in dark closets in the name of "a name" and $$$. 

Regards

[Dirty Dick]

Was this used in the same volume as black? I had a full can with no labels looked like what you described. I wish one of the powder makers would bring back something like this again. Sixty years ago I had great results using Dupont SR4759 in .25-20, .44-40, .40-65 and .45-70, it became hard to find as they would only run a batch every five years or so. The more recent 5744 seems to work almost as good as SR4759. I remember reading The Schuetzen Rifle by Major Ned Roberts, he described how some shooters would sift the bulk smokeless into separate more uniform grain sizes in search of better accuracy. I believe the famous Rowland group shot at 220 yards used bulk smokeless?

Cheers,
DD

[Bryan Austin]

Was this used in the same volume as black?

Yeap, it's right there in the data if you can zoom in enough to be able to read it.

This might be better.

[Dakota Ike]

What a great piece of history.  Thanks for posting.

[Black River Smith]

Bryan,

I have finally had the chance to fully review the list of charges for the listed calibers.  First post was right before we went out to lunch and errands.

I have an observation for you concerning the powder in 45/70.  About three months ago I loaded my 45/70's with smokeless and 405 grain bullet, rather than standard BP loads.  Because of the case volume I decide to use Accurate 5744 for the bulk.  I normally only load to factory equivalent velocities.  I found that 27.5 was close enough for my use and I see that 28 gr is there recommendation.  I think the 5744 could be a good modern substitute, at least for this caliber.

I have a few questions also.
First - is concerning the 30/30 like you are interested in, also.  Since, it was first loaded with smokeless and they do not list a load weight for it on the label do you assume that the load would be 30 grains or am I missing something?  (editted - I went back and reread that label and then REALIZED that they are advertising a totally different powder for the 30 Caliber cartridges).
Second - is slightly off this topic but does concern your work with 44/40.  I ran across a video (over on Cast Boolits site) you did back in 2011 using a set of 310 dies.  Can you tell me what expander number was supplied with that 44/40 set?  Or did you change to a different size?  426, 427, 428 or 429?

[Bryan Austin]

...I decide to use Accurate 5744 for the bulk.  I normally only load to factory equivalent velocities.  I found that 27.5 was close enough for my use and I see that 28 gr is there recommendation.  I think the 5744 could be a good modern substitute, at least for this caliber.

I am not familiar with those powders but I would certainly think it must be close for that combo. Lyman lists 26gr to 29gr for the Trapdoor Springfield and 32gr to 36gr for the leaveraction...so it would be plenty safe for the lever actions. What I don't know is if those loads are case capacity loads (both Dupont No.1 and 5744)

[30-30]Since, it was first loaded with smokeless and they do not list a load weight for it on the label do you assume that the load would be 30 grains or am I missing something?  (editted - I went back and reread that label and then REALIZED that they are advertising a totally different powder for the 30 Caliber cartridges).

Correct, ".30 caliber smokeless" was prefered for those "High Powered" .30 cal rifles. see attached photo

1. No.1 Smokeless Rifle Powder for rifles
2. No.2 Smokeless Rifle Powder for rifles and revolvers
3. .30 Caliber Annular Smokeless Rifle Powder for "High Powder" rifles


Contrary to popular belief the 44-40 is a rifle cartridge!

[44/40]  I ran across a video (over on Cast Boolits site) you did back in 2011 using a set of 310 dies.  Can you tell me what expander number was supplied with that 44/40 set?  Or did you change to a different size?  426, 427, 428 or 429?

Mine are #429 but mic at .428"

[Black River Smith]

Thank for the new info.  Very interesting.

Yes, I did stay with the Trapdoor load (of 5744) for the 45/70 so that I could use them in any of the rifles without concerns.  Most of the 45/70's I have are originals.

BRS

[wildman1]

I have shot an original factory load of Dupont #1 and a 255g bullet. It's pretty fast and smokes almost as much as BP. The case was filled to the base of the bullet and the powder was a light tan almost white in color.
wM1

[Bryan Austin]

I have shot an original factory load of Dupont #1 and a 255g bullet. It's pretty fast and smokes almost as much as BP. The case was filled to the base of the bullet and the powder was a light tan almost white in color.
wM1

That's great Wildman! John was the only other person I know that shot original powders. The 255gr was that 45 Colt? I have powder samples but not enough to dry out and shoot.

[wildman1]

NO, it was a full factory load in an original 1886 sporting rifle 38-56 manufactured in 1891. I had taken the roiund apart because I figured the primer was probably no good. It wasn't, so I replaced it with a new primer and reloaded the round, took it to the range and fired it. The Dupont volume for volume ways considerably less than BP.
wM1

[Bryan Austin]

Ah yes, makes sense now.

Yes, John Kort would dissect his cartridges. He would dry any powder to make sure it was at it's peak performance and not "water logged". That powder absorbed moisture. Then he would add a new primer, put it all back together and enjoy!!!