10 gauge/shotgun reloading question

[JL McGillicuddy]

Alright, I finally got a press to load my 10 gauge shells with and was working on it last night.  I found that I can get a pretty decent roll crimp on my load in both Federal and Winchester 3.5" once fireds, but ran into a touch of trouble with trying to star crimp on the same hulls.  I guess my wad column isn't tall enough to quite fill out the whole shell, but they would crimp nicely if I put an overshot card under the crimp.  If I didn't the crimp was so deep that it almost reopened the hull inward.

The actual question is whether putting an overshot card under the crimp would cause the pressure to rise appreciably.  I am planning to sit down tonight and mess with the crimp adjustment and see if I can get it to clean up, but if I end up loading shells and putting an overshot card in with the shot, am I going to be endangering myself?

I am loading with 2f powder.  114gr under 2oz shot is the load that I was working with last night.  I am using card and fiber wads.  I am working up a second, hotter load that is closer to an actual square load and don't want to damage me or the gun if I have to put an overshot card in those loads as well to get a clean crimp.

Thanks!
Jack Lee

[Dick Dastardly]

You are using a "jam" crimp.  It's safe.  To adjust your load column, vary the thickness of the fiber wad.  You want no less than 3/8" of fiber wad for pattern uniformity and choke performance quality.  Shoot some paper and do some pellet percentages to assure the performance given is equal or better than the standards for those choke sizes.

Hope I've helped.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dick;  I thought you'd ring in!  Thanks for the reference to my Jam-Roll crimp.

JLMcGillicuddy;  I have some questions.  How heavy is your piece, and what will you be using the load for.  That sounds like a pretty skookum wildfowling load.  If you are using it for CAS I believe that shortening the shell and/or using a bit lighter load might do the job, and still light up the night - or day!

2 things to remember;
-  The shot load should be no more than 1/96 the weight of the gun  (1 ounce for each 6 pounds of gun)
-  A "Square Load" means the height of the shot column is the same as the diameter of the bore

Good shooting!

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[JL McGillicuddy]

By square load, I was referring to shot and powder equal.  By my calculations, 2oz of shot =136.7gr powder.  I was thinking that may be a touch hot even for my warped mind.

I was only concerned that I was going to overpressure my new toy and really didn't want that to happen.  (Not to mention what it might do to me.  I am ugly enough without blasting pieces off.) 

The gun is plenty heavy for that equation.  The old files I have seen lay claim to around 13lbs on this gun, so I ain't skeerd on that account.  She is wearing cylinder bores, so no worries about choke diameter. 

This is to be my CAS load.  For now, I only have a 2oz shot bar for the press I am loading with, but I am planning to buy a 1.5 later.  I am figgerin to make DARN SURE that knockdowns go over.  I know that the load will not be for the faint hearted.  I ain't lookin to win any speed prizes, just have my own special brand of a good time. 

I may find that I don't care for shooting a load that stout, but I don't know until I try it.  Who knows, I may want more. 

I originally test fired the gun with 85gr loads and they felt too light to bother toting that much shotgun.  I can get 70gr into my 12 gauge loads and not notice them when I am shooting a stage (or later) so I figger the extry oomph in my new toy may be just the ticket. 

I am planning to try to get video of the test shots, so I will try to post them here if I am able. 

I appreciate the info guys!

Jack Lee

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Ref;  Cartridges of The World, 3d Ed., Frank C. Barnes

To summarize;  Modern 10 gauge loads have a maximum shot load of 2 ounces.

Maximum blackpowder loading was 5 drams of powder and 1 1/4 oz of shot.

What this really says, is that the 19th century 10 gauge is our modern 12 gauge! And the older 10 gauges were much lighter than now, so the comparison is not even close if we consider a 13 pound gun made for 3.5" shells.

I think you are safe, but I'll bet you will be looking for a milder load after a bit.

[JL McGillicuddy]

Well, I test fired the ole girl this morning.  My videographer had to work, so sorry, no vids.  Not too impressive to see anyway from where I was standing.  The loads worked well and handled well, I was able to quickly and accurately get both barrels off and both loads took the knockdowns down with authority (when I actually aimed).  The loads tested were 100gr and 114gr and neither seemed to kick terribly to me.  (Did I mention that I weigh in at a hair shy of 300lbs?)  One of the guys there tried out the 114 and commented that it seemed quite stout to him.

I may have had too much compression on the powder as I didn't get a single bit of flame.    The smoke cloud seemed about on par with what I get out of my 70gr 12 gauge loads or a little less (don't understand that AT ALL).

Thanks again to all of you that have shared your experiences with me helping me get this darling up and running.

Happy trails!
Jack Lee

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

JLM, I'm not an expert, but I don't think compression and flames have anything to do with each other.  I doubt you'll be able to put TOO MUCH compression on those shells, unless you start deforming (bulging) the cases.

Also, don't try to judge how much in the way of flames you get.  I seldom see ANY flames from whatever I shoot: however, the pards I shoot with go on and on about the smoke and massive quantity of flames they see when I shoot!  (I use Goex)

The way I hear it, none of the subs (with the possible exception of Pyrodex) produce flames ... only REAL BP actually lights up.

[JL McGillicuddy]

With my .45 colt loads I can GUARANTEE you that it is throwing fire.  Looks like pulling the trigger on a Roman Candle.   

Now, the why of the performance of those loads in my 10 gauge as far as smoke and fire are beyond me, but I think I recall someone telling me that if you got better compression on a BP load the powder burned more efficiently and thus less fire out of the barrel.  (He thought he was doing me a favor.  Calls fireballs "wasted powder".  Nice guy, but decidedly odd where BP is concerned.)  That was where the thought about compression of powder came from.  If someone has another thought on that topic, or a technique that I might try to ensure that I am throwing flames from the 10er, that would be just lovely.

JLM

[Steel Horse Bailey]

With my .45 colt loads I can GUARANTEE you that it is throwing fire.  Looks like pulling the trigger on a Roman Candle.   

Now, the why of the performance of those loads in my 10 gauge as far as smoke and fire are beyond me, but I think I recall someone telling me that if you got better compression on a BP load the powder burned more efficiently and thus less fire out of the barrel.  (He thought he was doing me a favor.  Calls fireballs "wasted powder".  Nice guy, but decidedly odd where BP is concerned.)  That was where the thought about compression of powder came from.  If someone has another thought on that topic, or a technique that I might try to ensure that I am throwing flames from the 10er, that would be just lovely.

JLM

Hey, pard!

I believe that I'd simply keep on doing what you're doing ... then, if that pard goes on about "wasted powder" you can simply nod your head sagely, then go on doing what you are doing already!

The fireball isn't just wasted powder, but maybe some.  By its' very NATURE BP is wasteful (somewhat) in all but the longest barrels.  An old trick is to shoot over snow.  Shoot, then look on the ground to your front and see how much residue is there.  It's can be an eye-opener.  I wouldn't worry 'bout it, however.  The worst culprit (for "wasting' powder, so to speak) is cap & ball pistols.  Cartridge pistols are somewhat more efficient.  And that may be due to compression.
   

I wouldn't worry ... just shoot and have fun!