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Author Topic: Indian wars and the bayonet  (Read 5115 times)

Offline ndnchf

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Indian wars and the bayonet
« on: March 30, 2007, 04:30:45 PM »
I'm just curious, but has anyone seen any historical documentation regarding actual use of the bayonet in an Indian war battle?  From what i understand they continued to be standard issue items to troops in the west.  I wonder what the average infantry private thought of carrying around a couple extra pound of steel if it was not often used.  Of all the reading I've done, I've never seen reference to bayonets beeing used in an indian battle.  Then again, I can't recall many massed troop charges either.

 Your thoughts??
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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2007, 05:02:49 PM »
The make a great camp candle holder.

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Offline Bull Schmitt

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2007, 05:27:14 PM »
It wasn't in a battle but a guard killed Crazy Horse with one.

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #3 on: Today at 06:15:45 PM »
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Offline St. George

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2007, 06:49:27 PM »
The were issued and carried - and the Army really didn't care what the Private thought about it, pure and simple.

In that time - they didn't think - their Corporal and Sergeant did.

They 'were' taught how to fight with one, and the bayonet is a great confidence builder.

If you can kill with a bayonet or a rifle butt - or look like you're ready to - half your battle is over.

Their biggest use was during Guard Duty and the handling of prisoners.

Later, there was a 'Trowel Bayonet' issued for the 1873 Springfield that was designed to be use in creating entrenchments and fighting positions.

Judging from the number seen that are in nice condition - it's doubtful that many actually saw much use.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!





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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 02:56:40 PM »
Hardly what you had in mind, I'm sure ... but, during Canada's Northwest Rebellion of 1885, the Battle of Batoche (May 9-12)  - which was mostly a stalemated series of skirmishes, with the Canadian Militia forces probing the defences of the entrenched Metis ("halfbreed") defenders and some Indian allies - ended with a spontaneous bayonet charge begun by the Midland Battalion (from Ontario) while the overley cautious expedition leader, General Middleton, was having lunch on the last day. 

The charge quickly over-ran the defenders, who were getting low on ammunition anyway ...

Here are a couple of details from engravings of the bayonet charge published in The Canadian Pictorial and Illustrated War News number of May 30, 1885.  Not necessarily "historically accurate", of course ...





From the typically florid caption: "THE BAYONET CHARGE AT BATOCHE ... the heaviest charge was made by the Midland Battalion, who rushed forward with a cheer which was taken up and re-echoed by the whole line with such force and vigor that the enemy became panic-stricken."
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Offline matt45

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2007, 04:52:05 PM »
Hello the camp
The trowel bayonet that St. George mentioned was noted in Gibbon's after action report on The Battle of the Bighole.  Looking at the thing, you wouldn't think they would be useful, but the grunts sure dug in deep with 'em on that particular day

Just shows what a guy can do under pressure
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Offline Ozark Iron John

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2007, 06:00:59 PM »
I read somewhere that some of Colonel John M. Chivington's boys alledgedly used their bayonets to toss babies, heads and other body parts around on / with during the Massacre at Sand Creek.



Has anybody else ever read of or heard of such autrocities?  I imagine it wouldn't have made it into the "Official Record".
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Offline ndnchf

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2007, 08:43:03 PM »
Hey Pards,

Come to think of it I do seems to recall reading somewhwere about the Sand Creek massacre and stories of atrocities like that.  Hardly the classic bayonet charge though.  Some very interesting comments here, keep 'em coming.
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2007, 06:31:06 PM »
Nothing new to add really, but I located a tinted version of the full engraving (from which the details I posted earlier came) so thought I might as well add it here -

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Re: Indian wars and the bayonet
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2007, 03:28:43 AM »
Quote from: Ozark Iron John on March 31, 2007, 06:00:59 PM
I read somewhere that some of Colonel John M. Chivington's boys alledgedly used their bayonets to toss babies, heads and other body parts around on / with during the Massacre at Sand Creek.



Has anybody else ever read of or heard of such autrocities?  I imagine it wouldn't have made it into the "Official Record".

Documents on the Sand Creek Massacre with the Congressional Testimony of Mr. John S. Smith
Washington, March 14, 1865
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/four/sandcrk.htm
 ;)
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