Hello:
Here's more on case annealing:
Since my Post above, two BPCR shooters shared that they get upwards of FORTY shots from NEW, factory annealed (STRAIGHT WALL) 45-70 cases with NO subsequent annealing when the cases are used in a specific gun. They believe that the primer pocket or primer flash hole may "go" before the case neck splits. They had no accuracy issues from not annealing.
Another eye-opener was from a respected/capable (Romano and Armisport) Spencer shooter that said he'd had mouth splits in his Romano Spencer rifle after the 1st, 2nd or 3rd firing using RMC cases purchased directly from RMC many years ago. He switched to an Armisport Spencer rifle because of cheaper Starline 56-50 brass, and THEN began to flame anneal with NO mouth splits from there on.
I acquired that Romano Spencer rifle #10030 a while back and decided to run comparative RMC and Starline 56-50 case life tests using it AND another Romano Spencer carbine #10031. None of the RMC 56-50 cases that had split for the other Romano Spencer rifle owner were available, and he could not recall if they had annealing discoloration when new.
I used both current "Outland family" production RMC and Starline's "Armisport chamber" 56-50 cases and CH4D 56-50 dies with a .511" expander plug. Both Romano Spencer's have chambers cut with the same high-quality, piloted reamer and their measured dimensions are fine. Some Armisport Spencer's have been reported to have looser chamber dimensions.
The cases were NEW, factory annealed with annealing discoloration.
They were full-length sized and salt bath annealed ONLY ONCE, prior to the first shot.
From then the cases were not annealed, and were loaded with 40 gr. Swiss 3Fg, a .512" OD Romano 315gr alloy bullet, SPG lube and a Win LRP.
They were full length sized, expanded and lightly crimped.
Surprisingly, each brand of case in both Romano's went 25 firings with NO indication of neck splits or flash hole enlargement. I gave up after 25 shots.
So, what caused the older production RMC cases to split?
And do all factory annealed cases present discolored necks?
I spoke with Kody Outland who has made hundreds of 56-50 cases from turned bar stock for me over many years. He said his family uses the same brass bar stock vendor and the identical brass alloy as had the prior owner. All of mine, as delivered, have annealing discoloration. He confirmed that all RMC's brass that his family produces are annealed and present the usual neck discoloration.
My reason for asking the obvious was that a friend purchased (at a gun show) "new" 30-30 commercial rifle cases made by a major "name" company, that did not present neck discoloration. My friend contacted the Production Manager at that company and was assured that all of its cases, including the ones he'd purchased, were factory annealed. Further investigation disclosed that the 30-30 cases, while new and unfired, had been tumbled by an intermediate owner, and the usual discoloration was removed. My guess is that the batch of OLDER, non-Outland family production RMC 56-50 cases made by a prior owner of RMC might have gotten out UNANNEALED.
Kody had no sample RMC 56-50 cases that were not annealed, so there was no easy way for me to test that guess.
My take is that if the case is factory annealed, as it should be, and the shooter anneals once before use, either RMC's or Starline's should, absent chamber or case dimension issues, last a long time without intermediate annealing.
One other thing, based on questions from a couple Spencer shooters:
Many 1860 Model original Spencers and a few of the ten Romano copies I have present a small missing chamber wall section at 9:00. This area "wedge" is paper-thin adjacent to the long blade extractor. Larry told me it is not an issue. The Romano Spencer rifle was this way and the carbine was not. During all my case life testing there was zero case expansion or "wedge" marks on the cases. Extraction was fine.
All the best,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny