45 short colt????

[Gassaway]

Just a curiosity. I was looking thru sportsmans guide they have in stock Fiochi 45 short colt? is this the schofield round or a different animal??

[Marshal Will Wingam]

There never was an official 45 Short Colt or a 45 Long Colt. The US Government re-designated the specs for the 45 Colt round in 1878 and all government contract 45 Colt rounds had a 1.1" case length, exactly like the Schofield round. There were not Schofield rounds, though. The shorter ones were still called 45 Colt and it was the civilian market that brought about the use of "Long" to describe the longer ones. I suspect the reason for the change was so the 45 Colt round could fit in a Schofield pistol if need be. To answer your question, I've never heard of a Fiochi 45 Short Colt. Here's a picture showing originals of the long 45 Colt and the shorter 45 Colt Government rounds I found online a while back in an article about them.

[Fox Creek Kid]

It's 450 Short Colt, a British chambering of the 19th century. 

http://www.fiocchiusa.com/cat_centerfire.html

http://www.oldammo.com/october04.htm

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[Gassaway]

now for the million dollar question can they be fired in a 45lc or schfield chamber? I would assume so but not positive.  brits loved those short fat rounds back then humm. looks like another bulldog chambering.  It just got me curious since ther $20 for 50 rounds

[Fox Creek Kid]

now for the million dollar question can they be fired in a 45lc or schfield chamber?...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.450_Adams

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

now for the million dollar question can they be fired in a 45lc or schfield chamber? I would assume so but not positive.  brits loved those short fat rounds back then humm. looks like another bulldog chambering.  It just got me curious since ther $20 for 50 rounds

Let me guess.  They might be .450 ADAMS.  Fiocchi calls it .450 CORTO.  It is the same circumference as .455 Webley, and fits the Webley chamber.  THEY WILL ALSO CHAMBER IN .45 COLT/SCHOFIELD.

You might find the rims thinner, at about .035"  AND WILL GIVE EXCESSIVE HEADSPACE IN .45 COLT CHAMBERS.

[Trailrider]

Marshal - are those rimfire cases?

Howdy, Pard!

No, those are military, inside-primed "copper" (actually gilding metal) cases, as witness the stab crimps near the base.  The crimps hold in the Martin bar or Benet cup centerfire primers.  If you look at the head of the case from the back end, it looks like it's rimfire, but it isn't!  The military used the same type of construction on the .50-70 and .45-55/70 Gov't ammo produced by the military arsenals.  It wasn't until about 1883 or so that drawn brass ammo was adopted by the Army and outside primers were adopted.  Of course, commercial brass-cased ammo with external primers was available about 1873.

The inside primed, copper-cased ammo was supposed to be more waterproof...and maybe it was...but the soft cases expanded and when the chamber fouled with black powder residue the fired cases tended to stick!  This was more of a problem with the rifles than with the pistols as the fired cases were pushed out of the Colt's and if necessary you could pry the fired rounds from a Schofield pistol.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks for beating me to it, Trailrider. That was a better explanation than I would have given. 

[Coyote Hunter]

Hey Marshal Will....

How many Grains of BP were in those Gov't rounds. I have some empty schoffield cases I'd like to make up for my 7th Cav Cimarron and see how they shoot. 

CH

[Marshal Will Wingam]

How many Grains of BP were in those Gov't rounds. I have some empty schoffield cases I'd like to make up for my 7th Cav Cimarron and see how they shoot. 

I've been loading mine using Schofield data. They not only work but they're more accurate in my pistols (Rem conversions). The originals took about 28 gr of BP. Here's an article on them that will help.

http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLongShort45Colt.htm

[Springfield Slim]

I shoot the Fiocchi  450 Colt rounds out of my 45 Colt and then reload them with BP for my Mk4 Webley.