Sharps '59/'63 Carbine

[Sgt Major Barber]

Hello all. 

Am still foolin' around trying to decide which BP carbine to purchase.  Am doing period 1866-1868 Oregon Frontier so am still looking around.  In the Sharps reproductions, 59/63, if one loads bullet into chamber and dumps BP in behind it to fill the loading chamber, how much BP are we talking about?  If using paper cartridge, how much BP goes into the paper cartridge?  Is filler needed behind bullet and in front of the BP?  Darned Sharps are going up as fast as our economy is going down...wish both were headed in the opposite direction!  Am also looking at the '61 Enfield Musketoon...had considered a Henry or Spencer, but ohhhh boooyyyy, don't want to spend that much for something that will be carried a lot in school and club demonstrations/presentations and fired not too much.

Thanks for any help you can provide, including hints, tips, bewares, etc.  Oh, have also looked at a Euroarms Zouave Carbine, 26" barrel....know it's not too authentic as no such carbine was ever made, even questions about use in CW...but I will be playing a 1st Cav Sgt Major using almost exclusively CW stuff and it a neat looking piece of stuff.  In my presentation history, colonial and cowboy, I have yet to meet an adult that knows anything about any of the equipment...even had one ask me if the colonials had lever action rifles. So, if'n the Zouave Carbine is it....(unknown at this time which way to go)me thinks that nobody but myself will know I have it cause I thought it was neat. 

If you want to check out the Zouave Carbine, go to
 http://www.euroarms.net/Avancarica/catalogo/CATALOGO%202008-A%20ENGL.pdf   
It's the second long gun below the revolvers.
Thanks to all.
Two Dot Wrangler (soon to be Sgt Major Payne--maybe)



 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Percussion Sharps are neat, but a lot of work. They are a world unto themselves and if you are not a "tinkerer" then I would advise to avoid them. The main problem, then as now, is sealing the breech. If you want to know more than you ever wanted to know about this go to the NSSA Bulletin Board and do a search under "Sharps".

http://n-ssa.org/phpbb/

[Professor Marvel]

My Dear Wrangler -
By all means, please follow Monsiuer Kids' link as it is a wealth of info regarding these amazing gadgets.
As an owner/tinkerer of an IAB 1863 business rifle I can attest to the ongoing maintenance issues!

If you obtain a version that has the floating chamber, you will find that the chamber is a project unto itself, especially trying to keep it "floating" , unless it has already frozen itself in place.

The self adjusting breechplate usually is not self adjusting until you free it from its breechblock constraints, relieve some of the metal to allow it to slide, and then perform the Historically INcorrect "Rubber O-Ring" fix.

Once you have performed those outwardly apparent chores, you will want to remove the breechblock cleanout screw, and examine the fire channel to ensure it is free and clear pf unwanted metal scraps.

Lastly you will want to dissasemble the works completely, and examine all moving surfaces for burrs, & etc, tune tohe lockworks, and re-harden surfaces as required.

Pedersolis will take less tinkering with the lockworks.

Now that you have finished your "kit" you can purchase the $100 perdersoli mold to cast the correct-fitting "400 and some" grain Sharps Christmas-tree Ringtail bullet, drop one in, and follow it with 95 grains of loose powder (in the .54). When you recover from the bruises, you will probably want to continue with nitrated  paper cartridges using from 50-70 grains of powder.

They are great fun for someone who enjoys tearing down clockworks and such, and for one who is not looking for accuracy better than "Minute of Coffee Can" at 250 yards.

hope this helps
yhs
Prof Marvel

[Advertising]

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I can't add anything about these rifles, but ...



Professor Marvel, your posts are pure joy to read!

"Minute-of-Coffee-Can!"  I nearly fell out of my chair laughing!

 

[Fingers McGee]

Professor Marvel, your posts are pure joy to read!

"Minute-of-Coffee-Can!"  I nearly fell out of my chair laughing!

 

+1.

I've had an IAB '59 for about 15 years.  Loading loose powder was always problematic; but, using paper cartridges with ffg Goex and .54 cal Hornady Great Plains bullets kept all rounds within the 'minute-of-coffe-can' range.

FM

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,
Personally, I think a far better choice of carbine for the 1866-68 period would be a Spencer.  They are available in repro form, and you don't have to worry about sealing the breech, cleaning the breech, having loose powder (even with paper cartridges) falling down into the mechanism and cooking off!  If you could stretch your time period by a year, you could go for a Sharps metallic cartridge "conversion" to .50-70 Gov't.  Lot less bother...IMHO.

[Sgt Major Barber]

Thanks for your time and replies. 

Would love a Spencer but $$$ are too high.  My old gnarled hands prohibit me from being a tinkerer as I once was ...%$$#@*&%$# anyway! 

Professor Marvel...you da man....all the stuff I needed to know, in addition to the NSSA searching...and I can't handle the required chores with a Spencer but I do believe they sure are neat. 

My time is during the Snake War in Oregon (ID, NV, CA too) 1864-1868....would like a cartridge popper but alas...other than Spencer or Henry (both too many $$$$), am limited to paper cartridge or front stuffer.  I been shootin' BP for about 15+ years so it's not a huge relearning curve on those smoke poles.  I have 2 '58 Remmies (.44, .36)y, '51 Navy, "61 Navy, '62 Police, and a couple of Colt '60s to holster as I feel.  Have the sack coat, trousers, sword belt and pouches, fatigue hat, slouch hat, and saber to go along with boots...so other than the long (or medium) arm, am good to go.

Did anyone take a gander at the Zouave carbine?  What do you think?

 http://www.euroarms.net/Avancarica/catalogo/CATALOGO%202008-A%20ENGL.pdf   

All the best

[65bsaA65]

That Zuoave is a nice looking piece-----how about the C.S. Cook & Bros. musketoon?  That's another nice looking rifle and I think it's probably as historically correct as anything coming from Italy.  In the final analysis, it's going to have to be what pleases you, both in looks and performance.  By the way, where's the price list on that Euroarms website?

[Montana Slim]

I helped my Pa get his original model 63 Carbine to the range. Bullets cast from the Dixie mold and we made our own paper cartridge forming tools. This one is made to fire paper cartridges that can be dropped in, action closed and fire (no paper tail to cut/mess, etc.

Works pretty slick out to 100 yds. Now if we could just get Sharps patent primer discs to fill the hopper.

Regards,
Slim

[Sgt Major Barber]

Hey 65BbsaA65.  No price list on that website.  I contacted Euroarms America and was told the Zouave Carbine is $515.00.

Regarding the CS Cook.  I like it too as it is nearly a clone of the '61 Enfield Musketoon.  I have heard from all inquiries that the '61 is a sweet shooter.  But....stock profile is hard on ones cheek as it is nearly on a straight line, or at least parallel to the barrel.  Decisions, decisions, decisions....

I really like the Spencer but this rig is mostly for presentations at schools, clubs and other groups...will shoot it some as I enjoy shooting, but not over a $1000 worth for a show and tell rig.  Have even considered getting a non-firing Henry Rifle, less than a couple of hundred bucks....obviously no shootin' and am guessing it more or less looks like a Henry....again, show and tell, not spend the mortgage payment...gotta remember that...I have trouble sometimes....  I have searched and searched but cannot find a "replica" Spencer Carbine...can no longer find a Sharps "replica" as I have been told they no longer make them...But, I am gonna get something!!!

Hey, my very best to all,
Two Dot

[WV Scrounger]

TWO DOT...at one time not too many moons ago I was in the same predicument that you are currently in....that is decisions..decisions...So I broke the bank and purchased my First '63 ( mind ya I didnt know nothing about em). Came to find that it is not so bad at all to roll yer own paper cartridges,,,and deal  with the sliding chamber sleeve and lube the block....It makes hitting that coffee can at 250 yds real enjoyable!  BUT as the months went by I found that I had purchased another '63, a '61 Enfield and a JP Murry..... so I looked back and realized that I had wasted all that time trying to decide on which ONE i wanted...
I could have better spent that time making smoke!