Buffalo Rifle Loads guidance sought

[cpt dan blodgett]

Have and Armi Sports Sharps and Navy Arms (Pedersoli) Roller both in 45 / 70

This is my basic plan for both
Have 350 grain Black Dogge Bullets and 415 Grain Desparado.

Test loads with the 415 grainers seated bullets seated out close to lands and the 350 grainers seated just to cover lube grooves (do not want to mess with exposed lube), .062 veggie wad, sufficient powder to leave no space, little or no compression on the Shuetzen  FFg and FFFg.  Neck Sized No crimp but bell removed.  Near as I can tell using a bullet in a fired case 2.705 OAL or something really close to that is about right for either rifle.

If I esperience leading with either bulllet near muzzle will add a lube cookie and milk or coke carton wad to the mix and reduce powder to again get little or no compression.

Will also work up a 25 - 30 grain load, filled with crushed walnuts and the 350 grainers for a plainsman load, may do same with a 457 rb that one will need a crimp to keep ball in case.


Have I essentially distilled the collective wisdom out there, or barking up the wrong tree.

[Ranch 13]

If you're dead set on Schuetzen, skip the 3f, the 2f will give you everything you need. Load the 2f to 70 grs with those flyweights and 65 grs with the bullets those rifles barrels are twisted for (500 gr)
 If you're not set in stone on the Schuetzen get ahold of some KIK 2f.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Why would you fear compression ? Compression is a black powder shooters friend. Consistent compression that is.

I use 1/16 fiber wads with a wax paper lube shield between the bullet and powder. They are cheap and I ain't cutting wads myself ,,considering how little they cost.

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[cpt dan blodgett]

Not afraid of compression, but what I have been reading Swiss and Shuetzen do better with little or no compression, Goex needs about 1/8 inch or more.  Not Married to Shuetzen but have 6 or 8 lbs and no cannon or stumps to blow.  Can always use in shotguns if it does not work in the rifles.

Totally new to BP Cartridge.  MLs were easy.  At range spit lubed patches and 90 to 100 grains of powder got decent groups  Used Patch lube for hunting.  Patch Lube worked good at range, but spit is free and seemed to work.

Did fine loading for NRA high power, Palma and 1000 yd shooting with 308 40XBr and M1A.  BP seems to have a bit of voodoo involved.

[Marshal Deadwood]

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[Ranch 13]

MD , that's not quite good info. Brent D, Bryan Y, Jubilado, HHH, Harlan, Kelley O, SPG,Mulhern, Hpguy, Tasmanian rebel, and those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head all shoot Swiss, and there's more, but for just the moment those are the ones I know of.

[Montana Slim]

I use a 510 grain bullet & at least 70 grains of 2F..compressed charge? - you bet.

Slim

[mustanggt]

Old wives tail that Swiss doesn't like compression. I compress very heavy to get 80grs in starline cases so it can be done and it will be more consistent and cleaner burning. I'm starting to get into KIK as it is half the price of Swiss when ordered by the case from Powder Inc. Don and all the guys he mentioned and more have 200+ years collective experience. They hangout at Castboolits and Shiloh Forums most of the time and I have learned alot from them so don't hesitate to go there too and ask and search.

[Pitspitr]

How far are you planning to shoot? 350s to 405's sound pretty light if you're planning on shooting more than a couple hundred yards

[cpt dan blodgett]

Initially some kind of reduced load at about 25-50 yards for plainsman.

Google earth tells me the Buffalo Rifle and Quigley Targets at WR are right about 300 yards.  Until I get really good at that range will probably not graduate to Silhoutte or 1000 yard matches.

The RB has soule sights of unknown origin.  The Taylors Sharps just the ladder rear and a blade front.  May be able to hit at 300 given a big enough target.  Have some concerns there may not be enough friction on the slider to hold elevation.  Shooting will tell.

If I got to the longer ranges plan on doing a Postell 535 grainer or some such actually have doubts the Armi Sharps will hold minute of buffalo at 500 or longer.  If I decide I really like the BPCR shooting, may well end up with a csharps.  Kinda like the looks of the Shilo Military Rifle, but wonder it it would really shoot well at 500 -1000
Back in the day when I shot Palma and 1000 yard matches, my 40X could hold the x ring, I could not.  Shot a few 10s and  Xs was generally happy to hit the black at more than 1/2 mile away.  My high master buddy could shoot 190 Plus with the rifle.  A lot can go wrong between muzzle and target at 1000 yards.

[Ranch 13]

I have went as high as 7 for 10 at the 1000yd gong at Alliance with my taylors , just using the ladder sight.
The barrel is fully capable of running with the big boys, it's the lock and firing pin and breechblok, and trigger springs etc that will hinder you at some point in time.
 Don 't be shy about jumping into the long range shooting, you'll never be ready for it until you do it. Then after you've done it a little bit can you start to figure out what's needed at long range.

[wildman1]

Ranch 13, what would you consider to be the minimum ballistics coefficient for a 45-70 ('84 Springfield Trapdoor) bullet for 1000 yd target shooting?  Also what bullet weight? WM

[Ranch 13]

Wildman if you load a 480-500 gr bullet on top of 70 grs of 2f black it'll work just fine to 1000 yds.
 I think to many folks are trying to shoot to heavy a bullet in the 45-70 especially, and the other 45's as well.
Take a page from the old deadguys books, and they seldom if ever loaded a bullet over 500 grs in the 45's unless they were burning well over 100 grs of powder.

[wildman1]

I was thinking that probably I would have to go to 500gs. Right now I'm shooting 405g RNFP. I know that is not going to do it. I guess I'm concerned with getting it right when I buy a new mold, which as you probably know range from $25 to over $200. I guess what I'm trying to find out is what is the minimum BC so I can stay above that. Thanks. WM

[cpt dan blodgett]

Thanks R13
Have ordered firing pins (2 each) and Extractor from Taylors.  My rifle has old small pin.  Bad news, good news if they break too often can send taylors the breach block, their gunsmith will drill out for large FPs for $10.  Any fix for the lock, trigger springs and other problems you cited?

Is there any utility in drilling a hole in the slider so it works similar to a 98 krag sight.  Am in San Diego right now in the dark without access to my rifle residing in Glendale AZ, so cannot look at it to see if it is even possible

May be of some interest, my brand registered in Montana is Circle 13 a 13 in a circle.  When I was a Kid there was a kids show on channel 13 in missoula.  Cactus Charlie and the Circle 13 ranch game.  Some how dad got my sister and I on the show.  Think it was the last show before it went of the air.  At the time I could not walk.  Had legg Pertes (sp?) in both hips since resolved well enough for me to be Airborne Infantry Officer/  Anyway Cactus Charlie gave me his branding Iron about a foot long prop not a real iron.  Dad had a black smith make a real branding Iron for me and we registered the brand.  That was back in 54 or 55  Have maintained registration ever since.  Used to be darn near free think it is 110 for ten years now. 


back when I was shooting high power, I had wind charts for 06 and 308, fairly sure the same are available for BP 45/70

Where does one acquire same?

Also what is the approximate come up from 200 to 300
Figure is I know how high I have to be a 200 to hit 300 can get in ball park on 200 yard range shooting paper.  Measure sight height with caliper the verify on 300 yard steel

[wildman1]

Handloads.com has a ballistcs calculator that will give ya wind drift and about every other thing ya want, just type in the variables. WM

[Ranch 13]

As to bullet moulds you can surely do a lot worse than starting with a lyman postell. The Saeco 645 is another excellent bullett.

 For comeups , you can sort of figure about 15 minutes per hundred yards, but that and most of the stuff you'll find with online calculators goes straight out the window when you get into the sunlight, temperature,humidity and wind direction and velocity.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

As to bullet moulds you can surely do a lot worse than starting with a lyman postell. The Saeco 645 is another excellent bullett.

 For comeups , you can sort of figure about 15 minutes per hundred yards, but that and most of the stuff you'll find with online calculators goes straight out the window when you get into the sunlight, temperature,humidity and wind direction and velocity.

15 moa is the figure I use as a rule of thumb.  here is the handloads.com ballistic calculator. It doesn't have any "come-up"data.  Go to the IMPACT column and divide the drop figure by the range in hundreds to get a closer figure.  Actual shooting finds the plumb in the pudding;

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

[Ranch 13]

The calculator on Handloads needs to be reset after 500 yds.

Hornady's web site has a good ballistics calculator that will give you minutes of elevation needed to go out to the further distances.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The calculator on Handloads needs to be reset after 500 yds.

Hornady's web site has a good ballistics calculator that will give you minutes of elevation needed to go out to the further distances.

Found it!   Thanks, it is now bookmarked.

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

It won't give a wind drift figure unless you enter a wind speed.  I used 10mph.  If you print, it will give you an abreviated "cheat sheet" to tape on the butt, or keep in your shooting kit where it will be handy