Messages

I think the thing that stood out the most to me was that before carter, nobody smiled, maybe JFK did.  After carter, everyone smiled.  It just reflects the change in attitude i guess over the years.  Americans used to want a president that is serious, stay out of peoples' lives and don't mess things up for us.  Been a long time since we had a president like that.  Now they all focus on reassuring the public and telling us everything is gonna be allright, while robbing us blind the whole time.  I'm not just talkin about the democrats, it's the republicans too.

[Wow, anwar, what is your problem? You are right about one thing, you're not going to change my mind on the issue. As for the history lesson, the middle east is something I know a quite a bit about as I was stationed there as an envoy with the State Department..... and, yes, I'm very familiar with Chief Rabbi Dushinsky and his letters to the UN. ... and yes, I spent my time studying the creation of Israel at Georgetown and with State..... probably before you were a twinkle in your fathers eyes. I'm assuming you haven't spent any time in the M.E. I say this because your history lesson is very one-sided. It comes off like some San Francisco liberal history professor spouting his pathetic views on MSNBC's K.OlberClown's Countdown, parroting some far left loons schlock. So look, sport, you have your views of the Israeli-Hamas conflict and I have mine. The thing that upsets me is this last paragraph in your above mis-guided quote. And this:I stated: "Second, they take no measures against the women and children, who are potential terrorists themselves. We should keep in mind that demographics are against Israel, and the clock is ticking. The million of Palestinians in Judaea and Samarrea have four, five, even more children per family. One day soon they will be the majority in the Holy Land. That will be a lot of potential "suicide bombers" that Israel will have to contend with one day." This past year year, 97% of all suicide bombers in Israel have been women and children. Hamas is training MORE women and children to do their dirty work for them in the future. Granted.... something has to be done about this and somehow Israel is going to have to turn this problem around humanely and fast or they are going to have suicide bombers coming at them like bees to honey. Unfortunately, the economy is about nil in Gaza and the unemployment is so high it's staggering. No wonder Hamas can recruit many young men and women in its fight against Israel and for only a stipend. Many of the people fight and die for Hamas to keep food on the table for their families. Now.... I don't expect you to apologize to me for those outlandish statements you made at me that were a little over the top, because I know you have very little experience in what you actually do know what is going on over there outside of what pro-Arab blogs you read on the web and what you are getting from the liberal MSM. And I might also add, one of the first lessons I had to learn when I started on this forum was "don't kill the messenger". Believe me, a few people put me straight. It took awhile but I got the message. So my advice to you is, take it easy on the messengers and if you're going to play.... play nice.]

Wow, anwar, what is your problem?  You are right about one thing, you're not going to change my mind on the issue.  As for the history lesson, the middle east is something I know a quite a bit about as I was stationed there as an envoy with the State Department..... and, yes, I'm very familiar with Chief Rabbi Dushinsky and his letters to the UN. ... and yes, I spent my time studying the creation of Israel at Georgetown and with State..... probably before you were a twinkle in your fathers eyes.  I'm assuming you haven't spent any time in the M.E.  I say this because your history lesson is very one-sided.  It comes off like some San Francisco liberal history professor spouting his pathetic views on MSNBC's K.OlberClown's Countdown, parroting some far left loons schlock.  So look, sport, you have your views of the Israeli-Hamas conflict and I have mine.  The thing that upsets me is this last paragraph in your above mis-guided quote. 

And this:
I stated:  "Second, they take no measures against the women and children, who are potential terrorists themselves.  We should keep in mind that demographics are against Israel, and the clock is ticking.  The million of Palestinians in Judaea and Samarrea have four, five, even more children per family.  One day soon they will be the majority in the Holy Land.  That will be a lot of potential "suicide bombers" that Israel will have to contend with one day." 

This past year year, 97% of all suicide bombers in Israel have been women and children.  Hamas is training MORE women and children to do their dirty work for them in the future.   

Granted.... something has to be done about this and somehow Israel is going to have to turn this problem around humanely and fast or they are going to have suicide bombers coming at them like bees to honey.   

Unfortunately, the economy is about nil in Gaza and the unemployment is so high it's staggering.  No wonder Hamas can recruit many young men and women in its fight against Israel and for only a stipend.  Many of the people fight and die for Hamas to keep food on the table for their families.

Now.... I don't expect you to apologize to me for those outlandish statements you made at me that were a little over the top, because I know you have very little experience in what you actually do know what is going on over there outside of what pro-Arab blogs you read on the web and what you are getting from the liberal MSM.   

And I might also add, one of the first lessons I had to learn when I started on this forum was "don't kill the messenger".  Believe me, a few people put me straight.  It took awhile but I got the message.  So my advice to you is, take it easy on the messengers and if you're going to play.... play nice. 

Warph, what an interesting post.  I don't really have a problem, i actually enjoy these kinds of discussions.  Hopefully you can participate without getting angry.  You don't know me very well, and you gave some of your background, so i'll give you some of mine.  I studied at the university of Jordan in Amman in an arabic and cultural immersion program designed for foreign diplomats and emmissaries.  So i actually have lived there, i've been to Israel and Palestine and i've seen a lot of what goes on first hand.  I spoke a lot about the histroy of the area and you called it one-sided.  Facts are facts, and you have the opportunity to present a different side, yet you haven't.  Talking about Israel really has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism.  I consider myself a conservative, and as a conservative, there is no way i could align myself with oppression, racism, or unjust war. 

I'm glad that you had the opportunity to work with the state department, because then you can tell us all how great Israel has been for the united states.  Maybe you can shed some light on why nearly all of our weapon manufacturing capabilities have been sent overseas to Israel.  How about why the second largest lobby in the United States is the pro-Israel lobby and maybe talk about their stranglehold on our government?  Maybe you can talk about the 9/11 report and why it says that the Mossad had knowledge of 9/11 but didn't warn us.  Maybe you can ask someone why we gave Israel all those scub missiles to shoot down rockets in the '90's  and anti-ballistic missile technolgy to build a system for us in eastern europe but they aren't using either of these things to defend themselves against Hamas?  Maybe you can ask someone why our broke government continues to give tens of billions of dollars in aid to a country that really doesnt need it.  Maybe you can find out WHY ISRAEL STEALS OUR TECHNOLOGY AND SELLS IT TO THE CHINESE AND NORTH KOREANS.

Now you made some comments about Hamas and gaza,  let me tell you that half of all statistics are only partially true, especially when you make them up.  You claim that 97% of all attacks are committed by women and children.  Do you know how many suicide attacks came from Gaza in 2008?  Just one.  How did you get 97% of one attack?  i thought maybe you meant 2007, so i checked that too.  Guess what, also just one.  Don't just throw random numbers out and expect people to believe you, ok?

You also mentioned the Gaza economy being nil.  Granted you are exagerating but i'll agree, their economy is in the dumps.  They rely heavily on foreign aid, much of which was burnt and blown up by the israeli army.  Why they are blowing up food and UN compounds, i'm not really sure, maybe you can explain that.  If you've been to the region, then you know that Gaza is a prison.  There are 1.6 million people living in a densely packed area.  They are completely sealed off from the outside world and barely have the means to feed themselves.  Israel created that situation.  Yes i agree that people join Hamas out of frustration, and because they are looking for money.  But why are they frustrated?  why are they so poor?  If you want to kill Hamas, you must allow the people in Gaza some sort of opportunity.  A man must be allowed to pull himself up and raise his station in life.  He must be allowed to earn a decent wage and feed his family. 

Israel has proven again that there can be no military success for either side.  The tunnels they tried to destroy are already operating again.  I don't read pro-arab blogs, i don't read liberal blogs.  I also don't read conservative blogs.  I look at the facts and do my own thinking.  And about playing nice, as far as i'm concerned, i've been fine.  I didn't attack you or make accusations about you, as you have done to me.  I didn't make up any statistics and label them as facts.  I'm happy to have this discussion with you, and i we both can keep it at an intellectual level.

I've got to admit that Gates has really turned things around in Iraq.  And it's nice to see that they've finally decided to stop spending american tax money to build up the iraqi economy.  Maybe now they can start thinking about how to pay for the last 7 years.

Catwoman, I agree with you about the Children. My only point in what I posted is that the Israelis have always wanted to live in peace and the Palestinians , Hamas and the Arabs in general have tried to deny them that. I have read a lot and followed the Isrelis in their defense of their homeland and I have never seen a report by qualified observers that said the Israelis were the original aggresors. What are they supposed to do, allow the Plestinians to bomb, shot and kill innocent Israelis and not fire back. Read the article that I posted ansd see who it says broke the cease fires first. I have a lot of respect for your judgment and I know that you give a lot of thought to your posts and I would not offend you in anyway.

According to CNN and Associated Press, Israel broke the most recent cease fire between Hamas and Israel.  Here's a link to the report.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4   To say that the Israeli's have clean hands in all this is a falsehood.  It's true that generally, it is the Arabs who attack Israel, but it's also true that Israel generally committs much more crimes against civilians whereas the Arab attacks mentioned in the article were all preformed by National Armies fighting against another National Army.  The palestinians have no army, and the majority of palestinian casualties are women and children. 

I also saw that someone posted something about Gazan's using people as human shields.  In my humble opinion, it's propaganda to de-humanize the people.  When ever i hear some story, i put myself in their shoes.  Imagine living in a densely packed urban area and a foreign army, lets say russia, invaded.  Imagine them rolling through the streets in tanks destroying homes and posessions as they go.  What would you do? what would i do?  Wouldn't you grab you're rifle, go to the high ground, and try to repel the invading force?  Why should we expect other people to do any different?  do you want them to lay down and allow what little they have to be destroyed?

As for being anti-semetic, thats a silly statement.  The Arabs, and palestinians, are also semetic people.  Nobody in this thread ever supported Hamas, but even if anyone did, you couldn't call them anti-semetic because Hamas consists of semetic people.  It's an oxymoron.  I think what you can call us is anti-warmonger.

no, not really, the federal reserve is just the most current inception of the national bank.  It was first chartered in 1790's by andrew Jackson.  The bank's purpose is to dictate monetary policy, but it does so in the interests of the banking industry, not the people.  Take for example, the 700 billion bailout deal passed recently by congress.  This money is going to failing banks that made poor investments.  That money belongs to the tax payers, why are they just giving it to people who obviously can't manage money?

The only time in our nations history that the National Debt has been completely paid off was under president Andrew Jackson.  One of the most important things he did in order to accomplish that goal was to kill the national bank by not renewing its charter

The federal reserve is a private organization run by the largest banks in the world.  They are no friend to the american people and many presidents have been fighting against these banks since the nation's founding.

I don't think we'll get anywhere until we have a president that starts looking into getting rid of the federal bank.

wow warph, your ideas seem very misguided to me.  I recognize that i'm probably not going to be able to change your mind on the issue, but perhaps i can open your eyes to a few basic facts that you've missed.

First of all, people seem to have this strange idea that all Palestinians are Muslims, and all Muslims are terrorists, therefore all Palestinians are terrorists.  This frankly isn't true and it's really a pretty racist and ignorant thing to say.  One must understand that many ancient Christian cities are in the West Bank.  Before Israel came into existance, the christian population of these areas was close to 30%.  The Christian population has been dwindling since that time because of the Israeli policies against Palestinians, whether they be christian or muslim.  You seem to argue for the extermination of the Palestinian people, including women and children, do you also then advocate for the extermination of the Christian populations of bethleham and nazereth?  because they happen to be palestinian too.  A few years ago, Henry Hyde wrote a letter to Bush on behalf of the christians of the west bank.  He said in his letter "the Christian community is being crushed in the mill of the bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict," and that expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are "irreversibly damaging the dwindling Christian community."

As i've mentioned earlier, The religous population of Palestine (before Israel came into existence) was fairly evenly spread between the three monotheistic religions.  They lived in peace and got along just fine.  They were all arabs, all palestinians.  It's not until European Jews started arriving that things started to get out of hand.  I guess you haven't really studied the creation of Israel, and the acts of terror committed by the European Jews against the British and Arabs in Palestine.

Some people like to excuse the acts of violence by the European Jews against the Christians, Muslims, and sometimes Arab Jews of Palestine on the basis that they are God's chosen people and that Israel is their promised land.  However if you ask an Orthadox Jew about the state of Israel, he will tell you that the people living there are actually very secular people.  The Torah commands the Jews to not enter the holy land.  The old testament says the same thing, but people don't read their books.  When the state of Israel was being created, the Grand Rabbi of Jerusalem pleaded and begged for the Nation not to be created.

I'm not defending acts of terror on the part of the Palestinians, but i'm saying that the Israelis should be held accountable too.  If you prefer capital punishment for palestinian terrorists, fine.  But do the same for Israelis.  There should be no double standard.

Wow warph, i can't believe you suggested what amounts to a second holocaust of christians and muslim palestinians, people who are basically the descendants of those who worshipped with Jesus.  Thats just, inhuman.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-traincar0116,0,3997955.story

I will do so