Elk County Forum

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Mom70x7 on May 21, 2014, 06:05:22 PM

Title: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Mom70x7 on May 21, 2014, 06:05:22 PM
From the Friday, May 16, 2014 Independence Daily Reporter, by Greg Lower, Staff Writer

Rumors and misunderstandings have complicated a bond election to construct elementary classrooms at West Elk School, the superintendent said.

On May 27, Elk County officials will send out a mail ballot for a $4 million bond election by the West Elk school district. The ballots, due back by noon June 17, will decide classroom and elementary school gym additions.

West Elk Superintendent Bert Moore said the current school building, built in the 1980s for seventh through 12th grades, has a capacity of 360 students, not 600 as some rumors claim. At the time, elementary students attended schools in Moline in Elk County and Severy in Greenwood County.

In 2009, voters turned down a proposal to construct an elementary school in Howard, possibly in an effort to keep the elementary schools open, but they were closed. This year, some of the elementary students attend classes in the main West Elk building, but most are in four modular buildings with two classrooms each. The campus has a headcount of approximately 340, with some 160 pre-kindergarten through sixth grade and 150 seventh grade through high school seniors.

"My board has been looking for over a year at facilities," Moore said. "Facilities were a priority."

In November, officials mailed out a survey of priorities. Moore said some people received two copies, because the survey targeted groups including parents, staff and the public.

Of 1,700 surveys mailed out, 409 responses were returned, and the school board worked with Independence architects Heckman and Associates for early design proposals.

Besides constructing eight elementary classrooms, totaling 13,880 square feet, the proposal would build a 11,558-square foot elementary physical education classroom north of the existing high school gym annex, which would be tied together with the main building for security.

Security is an area of concern, Moore said, after mass shootings including at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

"Right now, we have doors everywhere," Moore said, and people go in and out several times every day. "I have parents very concerned their kids are targets."

Elementary, middle school and high school students use the same detached gym, which they reach through a covered walkway.

One reason to put the issue on a ballot in June came from debate in the Kansas Legislature to end state support for bonds and interest on new facilities. Moore also said they were concerned the district would lose state funds for enrollment weighting with new facilities. Those proposals did not pass the last legislative session.

But an issue that did pass could help the West Elk proposal. House Bill 2506, passed as a result of court-ordered increase in education funding, wil increase state aid and offset some local taxes. Moore said the bond proposal seeks a levy of 10.8 mils, but the reduction in local taxes will be 4.8 mills, resulting in a 6-mill increase for school district taxpayers.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 21, 2014, 09:23:50 PM
Statements in Red are what was posted from the previous post.
My response and opinions are in BLUE.

 
Parts of what Mom70x7 posted.

"West Elk Superintendent Bert Moore said the current school building, built in the 1980s for seventh through 12th grades, has a capacity of 360 students, not 600 as some rumors claim."

The rumors are not rumors. I quoted Mr. Moore from the School Board Meeting, during open session of the meeting and he said the school was built to handle 600 children. So who is he lying to, the School Board or Independence Reporter?

But the story printed in the Independence Daily Reporter is not supported by any documentation

I have to ask why, did he go to the Independence Daily Reporter instead of the local paper, The Prairie Star, with this story?


In 2009, voters turned down a proposal to construct an elementary school in Howard, possibly in an effort to keep the elementary schools open, but they were closed.


They were closed against the wishes of the taxpayers. They were closed to set up this situation, which is not fairing well, is it? The School Board simply wrote off the people that voted, ignored the majority of the taxpayers.  They were to busy having their little picnic and laughing to discuss amongst themselves the consequences of their actions.  They acted just like the Obama Administration. To me it came across as blatantly clear to me it was all about Howard. With 75% of the district voting no and 75oward voting yes. That is exactly what I mean, it's about Howard.

They told the state they saved $150,000 and it has cost the taxpayer a great deal more. A great deal more is $500,000 for 4 double class rooms. They do not need to replace 8 class rooms that are that are that  expansive That real reason is to acquire a 2nd gymnasium. They have openly showed that what they want is professional sports arena. All you have to do is read the School Board Minutes to figure that out and use a little critical thinking.

 An economist says. Just as every action is motivated by an underlying incentive, every decision has a related consequence.  What is the underlying incentive.

These people will complain about the conduct and spending of the Federal Government, then they do the same thing on the local level!


The campus has a headcount of approximately 340, with some 160 pre-kindergarten through sixth grade and 150 seventh grade through high school seniors.

#1. We have been experiencing a decline in our enrollment for 12 of the last 15 years resulting in a loss of nearly 200 students since the 1992-93 school year. West Elk USD #282 is the largest employer in Elk County.

#2. Consolidate the elementary programs to one campus - @$128,000.

#1. & #2. Were copied and pasted from KSDE at http://www.usakansas.org/content/1/West_Elk_USD_-_Superintendent_Bert_Moore.pdf
You won't find the $500,000 for portable buildings to be able to close the two grade school buildings.

My elders always said, "Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see." Where is the state documentation?  Some people will believe anything, even if there is no proof.


Security is an area of concern, Moore said, after mass shootings including at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.
 
This is simply a fear factor generated to accomplishing getting the ballot passed. If they had any real  concerns they would close all the doors but one and have a person assigned at that door. They could use School Board Meetings to discuss what can do now with what they have on hand.

When the Moline Grade School was open they had a door bell at the front door and a camera connected to a monitor at the front office.  However many times I walked up to the door and found it open. No one was really concerned.

You see all the incidents like Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut happen in very large metropolitan area's. Do you see a metropolis in Elk County. The School Board has taken no actions, and I don't believe anyone even pays attention to bullying until it gets way out of hand. Which shows that simply writing a policy does nothing. Students have even complained when they report abuse nothing gets done.


Elementary, middle school and high school students use the same detached gym, which they reach through a covered walkway.


Isn't this what the School Boards actions have brought about! And isn't because the School Board went against the voters and taxpayers wishes?


One reason to put the issue on a ballot in June came from debate in the Kansas Legislature to end state support for bonds and interest on new facilities. Moore also said they were concerned the district would lose state funds for enrollment weighting with new facilities. Those proposals did not pass the last legislative session.

None of this has anything to do with the size of the building.
Enrollment weighting has to do with the number of students and our population continues to decline. FTE enrollment for budget purposes (higher of line 1, 2, or 3)(Goes to page 1, line 1 if no military provision; see Table IV.)
=315.0   from the USD Form 150
Taken from
2013-2014
ESTIMATED LEGAL MAXIMUM GENERAL FUND BUDGET at http://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School%20Finance/budget/Budget_at_a_Glance/13-14_Summary/F150-282-2014.pdf


But an issue that did pass  help the West Elk proposal. House Bill 2506, passed as a result of court-ordered increase in education funding, wil[color] increase state aid and offset some local taxes. Moore said the bond proposal seeks a levy of 10.8 mils, but the reduction in local taxes will be 4.8 mills, resulting in a 6-mill increase for school district taxpayers.

How come in the first sentence of the paragraph just above this paragraph we have the disclaimer,"bcould". then we have the more positive (it is not my spelling error wil[color]?  This definitely points out he is unsure of what he is saying. Why do you suppose that is, I'll tell you, it's because there is no money from it yet! It might be subject to change. Also, according to KSN 3 the state is in financial trouble. If we are fortunate to receive any money from the state aren't we the taxpayers entitled a tax break after all the years of wasteful spending by the School Board Elites?[/color][/b]


Todays Prairie Star newspaper says in big bold letters, "Bottom line on West Elk USD 282 bonds:
equivalent increase will be around 4.8 mills."

But folks up above and I quote , "Moore said the bond proposal seeks a levy of 10.8 mils".
 
He use's creative arithmetic to come up with 4.8 mils. You see we should get a reduction in property taxes which should be the difference between the two numbers. Or a 6.0 mil reduction in property taxes.

Oh and please be sure to read the letter to the editor from Wanda Mills, a terrific letter in my opinion.

The real bottom line is that we do not need and I emphasis need another gymnasium or eight class rooms or another office. When is enough, enough? When they have the School District in financial trouble like the state and the nation? Would that be enough?

The security that West Elk USD 282 needs is security from the School Board and the School Superintendent!
It's all just my opinion through out this post. Take it or leave it, your choice. But get that ballot filled out and mailed is as soon as possible. Gods speed and good night my friends.

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE,   be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and all problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE,   Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: frawin on May 22, 2014, 10:54:14 AM
Good Post, Mom, thanks.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 22, 2014, 12:28:34 PM
Good Post, Mom, thanks.

I totally agree Frawin Good Post.

Showing the Superintendent making  the big time (LOL) with the Independence Daily Reporter has got to have put a feather in his hat.

The superintendent said in the Prairie Star that the bond issue was decided on the use of surveys sent out to 1700 registered voters and only 409  responded, that is a very poor responses. Which is a strong indication of one of two reasons for considering that survey and using mail in ballots. The survey shows in my opinion that the majority of people were not interested in a $4 million dollar bond and therefore did not return  the rigged survey, rigged because there was no option to say no. Out of the ones that were returned, many were either marked all 0's or had contrary remarks. Also I bet the Superintendent and the School Board see the apathy shown by the survey as perhaps people will have the same apathy voting on the Bond Issue.

Please folks be sure to fill out the ballot, hopefully the "NO" box and get it mailed back as soon as possible.

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: sixdogsmom on May 22, 2014, 03:48:58 PM
Have these been mailed out yet?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: sixdogsmom on May 22, 2014, 03:51:00 PM
Never mind, I reread the article and find that they are supposed to be mailed on the 27th of May.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 22, 2014, 07:11:59 PM
A school building designed for 600 students
 and only 300 Students attending,
does not need expansions.

That is foolishness.

Besides The School Board Members Don't Expect You To Pass It.

They Have Said So At Several School Board Meetings.

Let's Not Disappoint Them.

They Are Already Planning To Run The Bond Issue Again In November.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10154304_10202373528961763_516168597856184970_n.jpg)
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Mom70x7 on May 22, 2014, 08:41:11 PM
Just so everyone's aware -

I think the bond issue needs to pass. I work there and know that the school is overcrowded. We're not doing our best by our students. This is one way to fix that.

I'm not doing to debate, not going to do any name-calling, shouting or yelling. If any of you wish to talk to me, I'm willing to converse.

Wanted, however, to make sure another viewpoint was presented.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 22, 2014, 10:15:29 PM
Just so everyone's aware -

I think the bond issue needs to pass. I work there and know that the school is overcrowded. We're not doing our best by our students. This is one way to fix that.

I'm not doing to debate, not going to do any name-calling, shouting or yelling. If any of you wish to talk to me, I'm willing to converse.

Wanted, however, to make sure another viewpoint was presented.


It would help plenty if they used the space efficiently!


So you work there. That is very nice. And the taxpayers pay your wage isn't that nice too?
Does working as a teacher or a para or a cook and does that make you expert on the efficient use of the over abundant space?

So do you think building an second gymnasium is going to better serve the education of the children.

The West Elk School has been operating just fine since the School Board closed down the Grade Schools in 2009? That's 5years, what has changed?

Remember the reason for shutting down the Moline Grade School, do you. They said they decided to shut Down the Moline Grade School because it would not be fair to make the Severy  students bus the extra miles to Moline? What a phony excuse.

Then the school Board purchased the four portable buildings that provided the extra 8 class rooms required and installation costs for $500,000. They then started calling the portable buildings eye sores. This plan was designed mainly to build a new gymnasium and to do away with the portable class rooms.

But guess what the teachers were asking what the School Board was going to do with the portable buildings, they apparently think they should get them. "NOT" They belong to the taxpayers and represent an awful lot of money!

So, if you swap eight portable class rooms for eight brick and mortar class rooms, exactly what is gained, besides a second gymnasium?
 
For a whole lot less than the cost of the new this construction, the Moline Grade School could be reopened. The sale of the portable classrooms could off-set the cost of restarting the Moline Grade School.

But guess what "Howards" children would have to bus to Moline, OMG !

Then it would no longer be all about Howard, OMG !

And Howard would not become the center of the universe. OMG ! No please no, don't do that to Howard.

But above all, it would make good financial sense. OMG !

Yes, I mean no increase in property tax or at least a minor increase. OMG !
Oh least we forget all the tax reduction from the States latest ruling that just passed for poor rural school districts Provided the School District passes the reduction on to the taxpayer. And not waste it on this new un-needed construction.

Do you think the tax payers will go along with progressive liberal spending of their money?

I don't! But we only have to wait and see, don't we?

Perhaps those taxpayers in Howard will, like they did with the last Bond Issue. but not the rest of the School District voters. I have faith in the communities and rural communities and the retailers. The retailers and the farmers/ranchers will be hit the hardest by the taxes. In hard times something like this should never pass. Common sense should dictate a strong "NO".
 
Unless you are part of the Obama crowd. liberal progressive spenders of other peoples money!

Remember, Detroit and what Obama with his Community Organization did to the Community in Detroit did?
They made it into a slum. Most likely getting them into debt over their heads that they could not handle.

Those that oppose opposition are usually wrong and have no real answers.

As always just my opinion.




Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Wilma on May 22, 2014, 10:33:36 PM
Hang in there, Mom.  When you're right, you're right.  And right you are.  I have a very good source that works out there, too, and everything you have said is true.  If anyone doesn't believe it, they have only to visit the school and see for themselves.  Actually, they have only to drive by it and view the modulars parked on the north side of the building.  Little rooms that have only one outside door, no water, no restrooms without going to the main building, which, by the way is not connected to the little rooms.  Yes, the children have to go outside to another building to get a drink or to go to a restroom.

There is no physical education room available for the children.  They have to be fitted into the high school schedule to use the gymnasium.  Same thing for the lunch room, they have to be fitted into the high school schedule.

Six hundred students?  I don't believe the gymnasium or the auditorium, either, would hold 600 students, not to mention their parents and other interested parties.

Did you notice, West Elk had a larger graduating class this year then either Sedan or Burden and much larger than Elk Valley.  At least one of the grades is so large it has to be divided and use two class rooms.

But if you want to believe what is blared across this Forum by a person who has been proven to either not have the correct facts or who willfully continues to spread the wrong facts, then that is your privilege.

Use your intelligence.  Get your information from the source and by source, I mean the people who are in the building day after day, with the children and who personally know the conditions.  The people who work in those conditions.  They will be glad to answer your questions.

Ross, do you have any official information as to what it would cost to renovate the Moline school building to accommodate the grade school children?  And remember, it has to come up to state regulations.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Nancy on May 23, 2014, 08:11:17 AM
Thanks Wilma and Mom for the posts.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 23, 2014, 10:31:01 AM
Hang in there, Mom.  When you're right, you're right.  And right you are.  I have a very good source that works out there, too, and everything you have said is true.  If anyone doesn't believe it, they have only to visit the school and see for themselves.  Actually, they have only to drive by it and view the modulars parked on the north side of the building.  Little rooms that have only one outside door, no water, no restrooms without going to the main building, which, by the way is not connected to the little rooms.  Yes, the children have to go outside to another building to get a drink or to go to a restroom.

She is right in your opinion, right Wilma?

I didn’t hear you complain 5 years ago.

Oh the anguish, the pain, the torture the School Board has created for our dear little children! Wilma don’t you think it was a terrible mistake for the School Board to close down the Moline Grade School and cause all this misery for the little children? Forcing children to walk to a bathroom or a water fountain --- such horrid treatment. It might affect over weight children and cause weight loss.  LOL class room

We need water fountains in each room to prevent this horrid treatment and a bath room right beside every class room,  with doors that open into the class room, don’t we? LOL

There is no physical education room available for the children.  They have to be fitted into the high school schedule to use the gymnasium.  Same thing for the lunch room, they have to be fitted into the high school schedule.

The grade school children were fitted into the high school system period, when the School Board shut down the  grade school. Which was their goal. I didn’t hear you complain 5 years ago.

What do you call the gymnasium that the children are using?
It has been working just fine for five years.
It is exactly what the School Board wanted, when they shut down the Moline Grade School.

Oh, and remember the talk of socializing that children learn by attending public School.

And as I suggested in a previous post, the gigantic concern of balls from the big kids side of  the gymnasium hurting little kids on the other side of the gymnasium, I suggested putting up the center line safety net. Well one of the coaches during a conversation with the school board said the exact same exact thing. He also said he did not want to use the Assembly of God for a gymnasium.

Six hundred students?   don't believe the gymnasium or the auditorium, either, would hold 600 students, not to mention their parents and other interested parties.

I didn’t hear you complain 5 years ago.

But we don’t have to worry about having 600 students, do we? We have a declining population. I just watched another citizen moving out of their home.

Did you notice, West Elk had a larger graduating class this year then either Sedan or Burden and much larger than Elk Valley.  At least one of the grades is so large it has to be divided and use two class rooms.

I didn’t hear you complain 5 years ago.

How many kids graduated this year ? Was it 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30?
Such a large graduating class? OMG!
Let’s suppose, and simply suppose, because neither of us has statistics or documentation. Lets assume that 30 students graduate and each one had 10 invited guests show up.  That would only be 300 people. Now a grade school gymnasium with out bleachers, and separate from the auditorium and the other gymnasium just would not full fill your 600 number would it.

But if you want to believe what is blared across this Forum by a person who has been proven to either not have the correct facts or who willfully continues to spread the wrong facts, then that is your privilege.

My, my Wilma that thar sounds like that politically correct language for calling me a liar. Shame on you! Pardon my lack of being politically correct, but shame on you!

Who has proven me to be dishonest or a liar? Where are the wrong facts that you speak of?  Please show the wrong facts about this subject ! I sure would like to correct them.

Just in case you have forgotten Wilma, I feel compelled to inform you that I have: 

1.   Admitted to being human and subject to errors that humans make.
2.   I have clearly stated that I don’t expect anyone to believe anything I say.
3.   I have also said the citizens should discuss the information with friends and relatives.
4.   I don’t know if I have said this or not, but if any one has any documentation, please share with us.

Use your intelligence.  Get your information from the source and by source, I mean the people who are in the building day after day, with the children and who personally know the conditions.  The people who work in those conditions.  They will be glad too answer your questions.
Why do they speak behind closed doors. The School Board is the proper venue and I can almost promise you the School Board is reading every line of this forum. Especially the Konnected School Board members.

Why haven’t the people that work their spoke up before?
Why didn’t they speak up 5 years ago?

But you know what since the beginning of time employees have always wanted better working conditions and some have always sat back and let others do their work for them.
Now you know that is the truth!

Ross, do you have any official information as to what it would cost to renovate the Moline school building to accommodate the grade school children?  And remember, it has to come up to state regulations.

Has the School Board even considered having a study done?

Do you Wilma have any official information and documentation for anything you say?

Just being an employee of the taxpayers does not give credence or factuality or documentation to what that employee may or may not say Wilma. Their statements are merely opinion and nothing more?

The same goes for someone running for office that says, I was born and raised here, That is a piss poor reason to vote for someone, in my opinion!

The same goes for asking someone, if they have children attending the school.  That too is a piss poor qualification, in my opinion!

Thank you for reading all my gibberish Wilma, and I hope you have a great day.

Oh, one more thing ladies please! Do you live in Howard?


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Nancy on May 23, 2014, 11:35:13 AM
What difference does it make where you live, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Wilma on May 23, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
Ross, I do NOT read your gibberish.  I get my information from the posts that point out your errors.  I do NOT read your gibberish or hallucinations or whatever else anyone wants to call them.

I read the posts of rational people.

Where was I five years ago?  I was supporting the building of a new school for the grade school so that our children can have the same benefits that larger schools offer.  Have you forgotten already?

Ross, in all that gibberish, did you answer my question as to official information about renovating the old Moline school to accommodate today's grade school population.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 23, 2014, 02:48:24 PM
Ross, I do NOT read your gibberish.  I get my information from the posts that point out your errors.  I do NOT read your gibberish or hallucinations or whatever else anyone wants to call them.

But Wilma you do read my gibberish, which you prove by responding about being rational.  Just what is rational about saying and I quote, “Ross, I do NOT read your gibberish.”

You just can’t find those posts and re-post them as quotes, I guess ! So apparently they don’t exist? Too bad!

I read the posts of rational people.


Who would those rational people be?

Would they perhaps be the Howard Progressive Liberals that enjoying wastefully spending taxpayers money on something that is not needed?

Where was I five years ago?  I was supporting the building of a new school for the grade school so that our children can have the same benefits that larger schools offer.  Have you forgotten already?

I did not ask where you were 5 years ago. I simply said, “I didn’t hear you complain 5 years ago”.

I didn’t hear you complain 5 years ago.

You were supporting something that was not needed, and the vote by the taxpayers and voters on the issue proved that, didn’t it.

Why did you support building a new grades school, when there was a perfectly useful grade school in Moline that was in use at the time as I recollect?

Did you support all that foolishness of shutting the Moline Grade School and spending $500,000 on the portable buildings and now you are not satisfied. Is that it?

By the way Larger School Buildings do not offer Better Educational Benefits!
So who is rational now?

Those big city folks have thousands and thousands of taxpayers to pay for fancy stuff that has nothing to do with education. If you think kids need that kind of stuff, send them there where they face a lot more problems and possible a school massacre. We have what the students need for a safe and sane education out here.

You are only speaking of stuff, right? Not education, right. There is a very big difference.

Ross, in all that gibberish, did you answer my question as to official information about renovating the old Moline school to accommodate today's grade school population.

Yes, I did.

Has the School Board even considered having a study done?

That says no, there is no documentation for anyone. Which proves nothing, right?

Did you answer my questions, no!
Here they are once again for you:

Do you Wilma have any official information and documentation for anything you say?

Oh, one more thing ladies please! Do you live in Howard?

Thanks for the on going chit-chat. I enjoy it.

We don’t like Federal Government waste of taxpayer’s money have we?

Some of us don’t like Local Government waste of taxpayers’ money?

And will vote “NO” just like the School Board expects.

Nope Wilma, I am not rational on your level.
I am a very proud redneck, hick.
And Wilma, I might be crazy but I ain't insane!
Oh and I'm high but not on drugs, I'm high on life.

TTFN!




Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Nancy on May 23, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Ross you are not a rednick. Again what difference does it make if you live in Howard, Moline, Severy, Elk Falls, or Grenola
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: nykkylsdymes on May 23, 2014, 03:57:57 PM

Use your intelligence.  Get your information from the source and by source, I mean the people who are in the building day after day, with the children and who personally know the conditions.  The people who work in those conditions.  They will be glad to answer your questions.

Ross, do you have any official information as to what it would cost to renovate the Moline school building to accommodate the grade school children?  And remember, it has to come up to state regulations.

Yes use your intelligence people.  Get your information and realize that we are being hosed, period.  I am not saying that our school does not need some improvements, but not $4,000,000.00 worth of my tax and the good citizens of the counties tax money. Spending per student here in West Elk is one of the highest in the state!  We spend over $23,000/year/student just in West Elk.  That is more than most people make in this county in a year.  And they want more of my money???!!!  This is outrageous.  No I think the school has become nothing more than another way to get more of other people's money and I won't stand for that. 

It wont cost $4,000,000.00 to upgrade the Moline school AND do some improvements in the High School. 

The children are not suffering as many would think being in portable buildings.  Tons of schools use them and the kids are doing just fine.  If fact, was it not the school board's idea to close down the Severy and Moline school and say the portables with save us tons of money???? Now they aren't good enough????? Unbelievable.

I am tired of being taxed to death in this county and most of my taxes that are going up are the school taxes not the county taxes overall.  The county has decrease the last two years, thanks to the Board of Commissioners doing what they said they were going to do, put the wind farm money toward lowering taxes and fixing roads.  But the school just goes up and up and up.  And no one said a word about it.  Do you people even realize that the school board is a taxing authority by themselves?  With $23,000 we can put them through college at a good college here in kansas, and includes room and board!

Stay at it Ross, keep the people informed and let them decide.  There are two sides to every story and most times the real story never gets aired.  What are people so afraid of that they won't speak up and tell it like it is.   >:(
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 23, 2014, 05:05:01 PM
I find it interesting that on one hand Ross wants to be considered knowledgeable of everything Elk County, but then tells folks not to believe a word he says.  Is he a pathological liar? That makes his "information" and opinions very unreliable. Does he really not know any better? Why should anyone vote as he demands they should?
People have answered many of his questions over and over and he just disregards them. What's that all about?. 
Personally, I taught for a number of years in a detached portable and it was fine, so I don't know what the problem is there, aside from storm fears.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 23, 2014, 05:06:36 PM
Ross you are not a rednick. Again what difference does it make if you live in Howard, Moline, Severy, Elk Falls, or Grenola

Like I pointed out in several posts on this forum, it’s all about Howard, simple.

1.   Approximately 75 % of the Howard voters voted for the last bond issue
and 75% of the rest of the voters, voted it down.

2.   Howard wanted to move its city limits out to engulf West Elk USD 282 but for some reason chose not to.

3.   Howard refers to West Elk USD 282 as Howard West Elk USD 282 and it is not. Check KSDE for the proper name if you will.

4.   I am quite surprised they haven’t renamed it Elk Konnected Howard West Elk if you want the truth.  Some people are very egotistical (in my opinion.)

5.   Howard has expressed in the past that if they had a bigger school that people would move there and improve Howard’s Economy. (Just foolish thinking in my opinion.) Remember all the talk about when a town looses its school, they tend to dry up and fade away. Well take a look Severy and Moline are still here. LOL

6.   All the old timers, I have spoken with have said for years, “It’s all about Howard.”

That should be sufficient for now?

Are your ashamed to admit where you live?

I don’t know what you have for a definition of a redneck, oops you said “rednick”.

Oh well, if I want to call myself a redneck, I suppose, I can do that!
I sure as hell have never been a white collar worker. 

You are surly have the right to have and to express your opinion, which is just fine with me.

Oh are you Konnected? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Thank You




Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: nykkylsdymes on May 23, 2014, 05:30:01 PM
I find it interesting that on one hand Ross wants to be considered knowledgeable of everything Elk County, but then tells folks not to believe a word he says.  Is he a pathological liar? That makes his "information" and opinions very unreliable. Does he really not know any better? Why should anyone vote as he demands they should?
People have answered many of his questions over and over and he just disregards them. What's that all about?. 
Personally, I taught for a number of years in a detached portable and it was fine, so I don't know what the problem is there, aside from storm fears.

No Diane, what Ross is saying is..... Do your own homework and verify what he has to say.  We all know people tend to listen only to those they run with and see others as a bunch of right wing wackos.  I see Ross' input as information, I read it, verify it and decide on it.  Really no different than what you get on any news channel these days.  Just because people have answered his questions doesn't mean he can't keep asking the same questions.  Sometimes in doing that very thing, the same people give different answers  ;) 

I agree.  Portables are perfectly fine.  As for storms, the portables are located on the north east side of the building, most storms here come from the south west... and that is what we have radar for and tornado sirens.  Our Sheriff just received a state of the art weather computer as did our Emergency Management Office. 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 23, 2014, 05:42:45 PM
When he has asked me questions, some very personal and rather rude and  sometimes are actually disguised accusations, I answer the same way every time and never until I'm sure I know what I'm talking about. He just disregards my answers as if I'm invisible, and sometimes plays not-so -cute games suggesting that Liz is writing as me. What kind of looney tune suggests that? That cost him his credibility as far as I'm concerned...not that it matters.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: nykkylsdymes on May 23, 2014, 06:34:43 PM
When he has asked me questions, some very personal and rather rude and  sometimes are actually disguised accusations, I answer the same way every time and never until I'm sure I know what I'm talking about. He just disregards my answers as if I'm invisible, and sometimes plays not-so -cute games suggesting that Liz is writing as me. What kind of looney tune suggests that? That cost him his credibility as far as I'm concerned...not that it matters.

So stop answering him then.  On this area of the forum, you have to put on your big girl panties and deal with it.  Ross is going to post what ever Ross is going to post.  Nothing has changed that I can see, so what???  Maybe Ross isn't trying to find the answers so much that he is trying to make people read, think and decide for themselves? 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: sixdogsmom on May 23, 2014, 08:16:30 PM
It is extremely difficult to remain aloof when someone is on the opposite side of an issue. There are several folks who support this issue that are among those whom I consider friends and whom I respect deeply. I always enjoy a discussion about issues and try to ignore, (though not always successfully), those who get a little too personal. If you can make me think about an issue, rave on. I'm listening. Ross is a little rough around the edges, but spot on about the school bond issue. And if those of you who support the school bond issue want to put in their opinion about this issue, I am listening. I have not voted yet, haven't gotten a ballot yet so there is time.  :-* :-*
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 23, 2014, 08:36:27 PM
I find it interesting that on one hand Ross wants to be considered knowledgeable of everything Elk County, but then tells folks not to believe a word he says.

Oh lookey look, the figment of my imagination has returned as a psychiatrist.
But, that shrink still lacks comprehensive skills, way up there in Delaware. Such a shame.

First figment, I have never said, I wanted to be “considered knowledgeable of everything in Elk County.” Get a grip woman.

I do not tell folks not to believe a word I say, what I have said is, I don’t expect them to believe a word I say, but that they might consider discussing it with their friends and families. Nothing more.

Here is a person that comprehends what I am saying and have been saying all along.

Stay at it Ross, keep the people informed and let them decide.  There are two sides to every story and most times the real story never gets aired.

Thank you nykkylsdymes I appreciate your input!

  Is he a pathological liar? That makes his "information" and opinions very unreliable. Does he really not know any better?
Quote

No figment, I am not a pathological liar, thanks for getting that out.
But figment you really do try real hard with statements like, “That makes his "information" and opinions very unreliable.” Your attempt at discrediting me has just been shot to all to hell, once again.   I have never demanded anyone do anything. I must have a hole in my tin foil hat, LOL

People have answered many of his questions over and over and he just disregards them. What's that all about?. 

Oh, no they haven’t figment, they have only responded, but without proper answers.
Besides, today we are discussing a different subject --- the West Elk School Board  bond issue. Catch up please.

Which brings to mind figment, I know of at least two Board Members that are Elk Konnected and since you are Konnected perhaps you can answer a question!
How many other Board Members are Elk Konnected? With all you knowledge of Elk County way up there in Delaware and your Konnections in Elk County this should be very to answer.

Personally, I taught for a number of years in a detached portable and it was fine, so I don't know what the problem is there, aside from storm fears.

Very weird, something positive from the figment of my imagination.
Couriosity killed the cat, but I ain’t no cat.
So Diane, how many year did you actually teach and what Grades?
So lets hear your answers, if answers are so forth coming, as you declare.


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 23, 2014, 09:02:15 PM
Ross is a little rough around the edges, but spot on about the school bond issue.

Sixdogsmom thank you!
You are very Generous! 
I think, I am very rough around the edges.
And I fail at political correctness.
Also I won't tell people what they want to hear versus the truth.
I still have a lot of sailor in me too!

Oh one other fault I was never known as a suck up or an ass kisser.

It's a no brainer! Why waste taxpayer dollars because, as the Board President said, " My kids will grow up and graduate with out ever knowing the pleasure of playing in a new gymnasium."

If he wants to provide a new gymnasium for his children, I encourage him to do so on his own property and with his own money. That way they won't feel deprived and daddy gets all the glory.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Nancy on May 23, 2014, 10:35:20 PM
I live in rural Grenola and yes I am very CONNECTED to the county as a whole.  Diane is not a figment of your warped imagination, she is a concerned person as are a lot of people.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 24, 2014, 08:36:53 AM
I live in rural Grenola and yes I am very CONNECTED to the county as a whole.

I did not ask if you are connected, I asked if you are Konnected, big difference.
By the way I happen to think Grenola is a terrific little community.



Diane is not a figment of your warped imagination, she is a concerned person as are a lot of people.

There is nothing warped about my imagination except for your perception, so enjoy it all you want.
Diane of Delaware said she would never return or respond to my communications some time back and then did come back rather rudely and consequently I called her a figment of my imagination. Those that have been posting on here for sometime know what it is all about. And to clear the air even further, I happen to like Diane and her input. Life is great, don't you see?

That was a great attempt at admonishing me.

But none of that has anything to do with wasting taxpayers money does it?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 24, 2014, 08:55:15 AM
I guess we are playing hopscotch from thread to thread again.
Is this an attempt to confuse matters? Just asking.
Anyway I moved my response to a tough question over here from http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.msg219684.html#msg219684  for the purpose of cohesion.

Ross, why are you so negative? The school board members are not all from Howard. The Moline and Severy grade schools were both closed. Yes it is sad to see any school closed but it does not mean it is all about Howard.

I don't recollect ever saying that the School Board Members are from Howard. Because I know they are not.

Why am I so negative, fair question?

Because someone has set up a no win situation that has already cost the taxpayers tens of thousands of wasted dollars on architects and $500,000.00 dollars on portable class rooms and now wants to waste $4,000,000.00 on replacing the portable class rooms with brick and mortar, with the main purpose of building a grade school gymnasium.

All that waste and they are including money from the state that has not yet materialized!

They are doing all this while there sets a perfectly good School Building in Moline with a Gymnasium and brick and mortar class rooms. That building should never have been closed. The school board for some reason unknown to us chose to close it even the vote on the last ballot showed that 75% of the voters said no. That is a very loud and positive "NO".

If you have read my post I do believe I have explained clearly how it is all  about Howard.
Just take a trip back to http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,16097.new.html#new to find the remarks.

Thank you for asking about my negativity. You see a negative can be a very positive thing. It is all a perception. I find your attitude very negative and I don't mean that in an ugly sense. I simply mean that you won't open your eyes to the fact that an unnecessary debt for the taxpayers is a very bad thing.

You also appear to have negative out look that a new bigger building will do something for education.  Buildings do not educate, sorry about that!

None of this negative or positive talk accomplishes anything. Talk about what is needed and what is affordable with the least debt, would be much more constructive, don't you think?

I will be moving a copy of this back to the other thread.

Thanks for your time communicating your opinion and challenging my negativity.

Isn't a giant debt for the taxpayer a negative?

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 24, 2014, 09:19:36 AM
An economist says:  Just as every action is motivated by an underlying incentive (really who is behind this foolishness), every decision has a related consequence.  (We the taxpayers with wallets will pay the consequences.)


Be SMART, be SENSIBLE,   be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Reopening the Moline Grade School will gain the School Districts much more, more class rooms, a gymnasium, an auditorium and more restrooms for the children and a play ground. And far less crowding that employees are complaining about.

 
Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE,   Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 24, 2014, 09:49:01 AM
Thank you Nancy.I appreciate the positive comment. I do care.
Ross, I have answered your question about how long I taught and what grades so many times it's ridiculous to expect me to answer it again! What difference does it make anyway? My years of teaching won't help people decide about your bond issue.
I don't know how anyone can decide on your bond issues as long as several small towns are encouraged to have a win or lose attitude.
 I would expect that the families who have children in any school would like the school to be large enough and nice looking enough to be workable and pleasant, and well fitted out enough to be effective. I do understand about the costs. Our referendums often fail here too, but for difference reasons.  BUT..nice looking to the eye doesn't have to be Taj Mahal expensive. We just proved that with our new Newark Charter High School. I just wish I could have helped you  long distance.
 If the bond issues keeps on failing, then what? Is there a plan B? Will the schools eventually be closed in favor of little classes in church basements, if the population keeps declining as Ross says? Are roof leaks acceptable just because the student population is small? Reopening a mothballed school is not a cheap matter either. I'm sure there are also state regulations to consider. How old is the Moline school? How long has it been closed? Roof condition? any asbestos? heating and/or cooling? wiring age and condition? water leaks around windows or through walls? mold issues? vandalism? Has it been used for storage or anything else?
   By the way, I do not talk to Ross any more except for educational issues, on which I am certainly qualified to have an opinion.
What qualifies Ross to be an expert on space allocation and "wasted " space in a school?  As far as wasted tax dollars...it depends on who one asks and how they are connected to a school. Is school spending an investment or a drain on taxpayers? It depends on where one is in their life cycle.
 Schools should never be a financial bottomless pit, but need to be able to prepare students for their future, whether it is continued education or a skilled occupation. That is more expensive than it used to be.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 24, 2014, 11:37:03 AM
Thank you Nancy.I appreciate the positive comment. I do care.

Nice job Nancy, we all need a pat on the back occasionally.

Ross, I have answered your question about how long I taught and what grades so many times it's ridiculous to expect me to answer it again! What difference does it make anyway? My years of teaching won't help people decide about your bond issue.
I don't know how anyone can decide on your bond issues as long as several small towns are encouraged to have a win or lose attitude.

My point precisely and it was sooo long ago and such a short period of time.

I would expect that the families who have children in any school would like the school to be large enough and nice looking enough to be workable and pleasant, and well fitted out enough to be effective. I do understand about the costs. Our referendums often fail here too, but for difference reasons.  BUT..nice looking to the eye doesn't have to be Taj Mahal expensive. We just proved that with our new Newark Charter High School. I just wish I could have helped you  long distance.

A school built to handle 600 students when there is on 300 students enrolled isn’t enough? Where is the logic in that? The math is so simple, and it is not Common Core.

And you are right this is not Delaware or a Newark Charter High School. And you can’t help from Delaware, you are not a registered voter in Elk County, Kansas are you!

If the bond issues keeps on failing, then what?

We still have the school building that is designed to handle 600 students with only 300 students enrolled. This is why I love Diane --- she helps prove my point. Thank you Diane. Good job Diane! You don’t have to thank me for the positive comments, I understand.

Is there a plan B? Will the schools eventually be closed in favor of little classes in church basements, if the population keeps declining as Ross says?

No need for a plan “B”.
We still have the school building that is designed to handle 600 students with only 300 students enrolled.

As far as the declining population, that has been mentioned numerous times at School Board meetings by the School Superintendent and you can check the statistics on the internet any time of the day. Even your friends at Elk Konnected have made it a very strong point.  Again thank you Diane you really know how to bring out the good information sometimes. Don’t thank me for the positive compliment, I understand. Just keep up the good work, I appreciate it.

Are roof leaks acceptable just because the student population is small?

You would have to ask the School Board why they are sitting on their hands!
They were advised (I believe it was) by the University of Kansas at Emporia two years ago to start repairing the roof. And they had $1,000,000.00 on hand to do it. So yes Diane another good point, why isn’t the School Board started on the roof repair. They are spending money to do little patches which build up to be expensive.

Excellent question Diane! Again no need to thank me for the positive feed back.

Reopening a mothballed school is not a cheap matter either. I'm sure there are also state regulations to consider. How old is the Moline school? How long has it been closed? Roof condition? any asbestos? heating and/or cooling? wiring age and condition? water leaks around windows or through walls? mold issues? vandalism? Has it been used for storage or anything else?

Will the School Board have a contractor or architect look at it. NO! They are too hung up on a new gymnasium and Taj Mahal for Howard to be interested in saving the taxpayers any money. Thanks for asking why the School Board has such a negative attitude about the roof repair and about saving the taxpayers money? I just don’t think the School Board has everyone’s best interest in mind, simply by this action and choosing to ignore the taxpayers vote on the last Bond Issue. So who is really behind this foolishness. Who is behind the NEGATIVITY towards the voters?

THANKS AGAIN! Diane from Delaware with your Charter Schools, good job.

   By the way, I do not talk to Ross any more except for educational issues, on which I am certainly qualified to have an opinion.

You are no better qualified than any one else. In fact you are less qualified than the voters and taxpayers of Elk County. Sorry to have to inform you, but being a teacher 50 years ago is not a qualification on Building Construction or reopening a building. Or Construction and taxing local taxpayers that do not wish to continue the over taxation!  Of 282 voter does not require teachers credentials from Delaware. I am so sorry, Diane.

What qualifies Ross to be an expert on space allocation and "wasted " space in a school?

My Dear Diane  What qualifies you to ask such a question from Delaware? I have never claimed to be qualified on space allocation or wasted space in school. I have on the authority of a very smart gentleman, that the West Elk School building was designed to house 600 students and there are only about 300 students enrolled. It only leaves one to believe that space is very poorly used. But so as not to ass/u/me anything I suggested they hire a proficiency expert.

Keep bringing it on Diane, you are doing a great job?

  As far as wasted tax dollars...it depends on who one asks and how they are connected to a school. Is school spending an investment or a drain on taxpayers? It depends on where one is in their life cycle.

The only ones that count concerning the taxation by the School District are the registered voters and taxpayers that live in the particular School District. And none of the in the West Elk USD 282 School District live in Delaware.

And the last Bond Issue voted on, showed a very strong “NO”!

Did the School board listen again “NO” ! Ooops another negative this time from the School Board.


Schools should never be a financial bottomless pit, but need to be able to prepare students for their future, whether it is continued education or a skilled occupation. That is more expensive than it used to be.

Once again you prove my points. But still people need to be discussing this information and you Diane have been very helpful in continuing the discussion for every registered voter. Keep up the good work Diane.

It has been proven that pouring money into education does not improve educational standards. It takes leadership and class room work. Very simple, no!
Another negative. Oops!

We do know we have two Konnected School Board Members.
So Diane with your  Konnections and your vast knowledge of school boards and your qualifications and such won't you please, would you enlighten us as to haw many more are Konnected? I bet you don't know.

Oh. well next spring five school board seats come up for election and I expect some major changes will occur.

There is only one seat, I hope remains to be the same person.

That is one out of four with scruples and integrity in my opinion.

Why does my opinion worry some people so much. My, my ! This I don't understand.

It is simply my opinion, just like the opinion by editors in editorials, nothing more, just an opinion!
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 24, 2014, 03:08:10 PM
Ross, not that it matters, but in 1964 I was still in college. I graduated in 1966 and started teaching in September of that year.What is your point?...for such a "short" time? It sure didn't feel short! ;D ;D ;D ;D.I still go into the classroom from time to time.Chalk boards are mostly gone now, so there is no longer a problem.   The Delaware School for the Deaf would surely miss me ;D ;D ;D. Shall I ask you to list every job you ever had, how long ago and ask you to prove you were qualified to have it? Haven't you been "retired" forever?
 I still question the number of students and grades West Elk was originally built to handle.600 seems high for the size,regardless of who said it. Perhaps they were talking about the students in all the schools,not just the high school?
 By the way, I am most certainly more qualified than most when it comes to school space. I designed the class rooms, with teacher input, for one new elementary, two middles and one high school building. If I'm so old and out dated I couldn't have done that. Al and I worked with the builder, the architect and even some of the subs to be sure what I suggested met everyone's needs,especially the finance person who had to pay the bills. Information about room size requirments for each grade and use is easily available.The school board had to approve everything too.
Thank goodness we were able to use ordinary construction materials, and not the super expensive stuff some states require.
 The middle school was opened in 2003 and still looks new, thanks to the efforts of an amazing group of "janitors" and well behaved kids.If we can do it here, you should be able to do it in Kansas!
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Mom70x7 on May 24, 2014, 03:24:13 PM
From the Independence Daily Reporter:


West Elk Superintendent Bert Moore said the current school building, built in the 1980s for seventh through 12th grades, has a capacity of 360 students, not 600 as some rumors claim. At the time, elementary students attended schools in Moline in Elk County and Severy in Greenwood County.



The District Office number is 620-374-2113, if anyone wants to call and verify the information.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 24, 2014, 04:05:29 PM
From the Independence Daily Reporter:


West Elk Superintendent Bert Moore said the current school building, built in the 1980s for seventh through 12th grades, has a capacity of 360 students, not 600 as some rumors claim. At the time, elementary students attended schools in Moline in Elk County and Severy in Greenwood County.



The District Office number is 620-374-2113, if anyone wants to call and verify the information.

I agree, call him but Be sure to ask for blue prints and documentation, too! Ask him to have his office personal post the documentation either here or on the West Elk USD 282 Web site. After all they claim to want to communicate with the public and here is a perfect chance to do just that? I bet it doesn't happen.

Contrary to what Mom70x7 says it is not a rumor, I personally heard him at several School Board meetings, and he said it was built to handle 600 students.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: daisy on May 24, 2014, 05:28:48 PM
I hope the citizens of Elk County get their information about the West Elk Schools from reliable individuals that can present them with facts and not twisted interpretations of things they have heard in the local feed store.  Pretty sure those who are bitterly opposed to this bond are so because of hurt feelings, which is sad for our county.  Talk to those directly involved, if you don't respect what the school board has to say ask those individuals who spend their time there daily. 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: sixdogsmom on May 24, 2014, 06:21:02 PM
I just got out my calculator and the cost per student is a whole lot of money people. Particularly when you consider that the board has just spent 600 thousand dollars five years ago to accommodate students from the two grade schools that were closed. If the Howard campus was built to accommodate 300 students back in the 80s, how is it that with the addition of the eight classrooms, the campus cannot accommodate 324? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the student body above 400 when all this was done?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 24, 2014, 06:53:33 PM
I hope the citizens of Elk County get their information about the West Elk Schools from reliable individuals that can present them with facts and not twisted interpretations of things they have heard in the local feed store.  Pretty sure those who are bitterly opposed to this bond are so because of hurt feelings, which is sad for our county.  Talk to those directly involved, if you don't respect what the school board has to say ask those individuals who spend their time there daily.

Very good idea only talk to our employees, who ever heard of an employee that didn't want better working conditions. I've even worked with people that wanted such good working conditions, they wanted others to carry their work load. 

Who is bitter. I think most people are more sensible than that. It 's a shame you don't.

It those that oppose opposition that call people liars in a politically correct way because they don't have any other way to deal with facts.
 
But guess what, just like the last Bond Issue the voters will make up their on mind if they have been taxed enough or not. And if they are tired of the wasteful use of their money.

So you just keep casting doubt, it will simply fail in my opinion.

Good Luck
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: redcliffsw on May 25, 2014, 09:39:42 AM
 
Ross, I don't know why any reliable American would want to vote to steal money and more money from fellow citizens by and thru government to support a 'perpetual' government program like education.

Do you ever get the feeling that nowadays most people have greater respect for the Federal government instead of having the greater respect for individual liberty and individual property rights?  That comes from the learning in government schools and now its worse than ever.  For several generations, they've been preparing and teaching the future voters to support their government education and other "forced" and "mandated" government programs.  Fortunately, a few have escaped thru the government filtering system and others have sought to learn better. 

So it's good to see folks who are opposed to furthering socialism.  I'd certainly vote "no" on this issue if I was a voter in Elk County.

Ross, you stay right in there.


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 25, 2014, 10:46:27 AM
 
Ross, I don't know why any reliable American would want to vote to steal money and more money from fellow citizens by and thru government to support a 'perpetual' government program like education.

Do you ever get the feeling that nowadays most people have greater respect for the Federal government instead of having the greater respect for individual liberty and individual property rights?  That comes from the learning in government schools and now its worse than ever.  For several generations, they've been preparing and teaching the future voters to support their government education and other "forced" and "mandated" government programs.  Fortunately, a few have escaped thru the government filtering system and others have sought to learn better. 

So it's good to see folks who are opposed to furthering socialism.  I'd certainly vote "no" on this issue if I was a voter in Elk County.

Ross, you stay right in there.

Thank you redcliffsw, but most of all thanks for not calling me liar. LOL
Ya know some people think being politiacally correct makes everything ok.
When really it is back-stabbing someone up front.
Poltical correctness is just another way of being rude and cowardly, IMHO!

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: nykkylsdymes on May 25, 2014, 12:33:43 PM
I hope the citizens of Elk County get their information about the West Elk Schools from reliable individuals that can present them with facts and not twisted interpretations of things they have heard in the local feed store.  Pretty sure those who are bitterly opposed to this bond are so because of hurt feelings, which is sad for our county.  Talk to those directly involved, if you don't respect what the school board has to say ask those individuals who spend their time there daily.

I, myself, don't have hurt feelings but I do have a hurt bank account.  I agree, talk to people just don't assume, do your homework and get the facts.  But don't stop there!  Do the math, know what happened just a few years ago. 

I just got out my calculator and the cost per student is a whole lot of money people. Particularly when you consider that the board has just spent 600 thousand dollars five years ago to accommodate students from the two grade schools that were closed. If the Howard campus was built to accommodate 300 students back in the 80s, how is it that with the addition of the eight classrooms, the campus cannot accommodate 324? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the student body above 400 when all this was done?

Excellent point!

If we couldn't afford the bond they tried to push through before all of this, what makes them think we can afford it now??!!!!

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Wilma on May 25, 2014, 01:48:20 PM
We are not talking about "afford".  We are talking about what is "needed".  What do you do when you "need" something?  Do you wait until you can "afford" it or do you go ahead and "do it".  If I had waited until I could "afford" it, I wouldn't have  replaced my blown out air conditioner a couple of years ago and I still wouldn't have it replaced.

Do our children have to wait until we can "afford" it to have a decent school environment?

I would like to know just how much this will raise our taxes per hundred dollars.   I can think of a number of things that I can give up, if necessary, to pay the added tax.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 25, 2014, 05:44:44 PM
We are not talking about "afford".  We are talking about what is "needed".  What do you do when you "need" something?  Do you wait until you can "afford" it or do you go ahead and "do it".  If I had waited until I could "afford" it, I wouldn't have  replaced my blown out air conditioner a couple of years ago and I still wouldn't have it replaced.


You talk about "need" but you don't explain the WHY of the need! Why is that?

Perhaps, there should be a discussion concerning the difference between "want" and "need".
First we are not discussing your budget or your blown out air conditioner on this ballot now are we? We can survive without the convenience of air-conditioning. I grew up here in South East Kansas and our home never had an air-conditioner. That is not a "need"! That was a convenience, a "want"!

It is this way of thinking that has brought our nation to a
 $17 Trillion National Debt.

Do our children have to wait until we can "afford" it to have a decent school environment?

You have just said, that West Elk is not a decent School.
I totally disagree with you!

But suppose you are right, what should we do with the decrepit old building with the leaky roof, shut it down? And send our kids to the other school districts associated with Elk County?

I would like to know just how much this will raise our taxes per hundred dollars.   I can think of a number of things that I can give up, if necessary, to pay the added tax.

It is not a matter how much it might raise our personal property taxes, it is about
an un-needed
$4 Million Dollar Debt.

Let’s back up to Want and Need shall we?

Someone wants a new gymnasium, and at least one board member thinks it just horrible his children may grow up with out knowing the pleasure of playing in a new gymnasium.

Now, I ask you, is that a "need"?
There is but one answer, “NO”, that is not a "need!"

So we throw in eight classrooms and label them as grade school classrooms.
Are the class rooms really grade school classrooms?
What distinguishes them from any other room? Nothing! A room is simply a room until it is placed into a use.  But do we need eight grade school classrooms?

Wait a minute, the School Board says, we better not refer to them as a grade school, because the voters did not want a new grade school built, with the last Bond Election, so we will only refer to them as just classrooms.

But still do we need them, just so we can get rid of eight classrooms that cost the taxpayers $500,000.00 recently? The classrooms known as portable classrooms!
What is the need to throw away $500,000.00 worth of classrooms and spend  extra money to have them removed. Please explain this need?
 
And some one mentioned, go talk to the people that work there, didn’t they?
Well those employees, the teachers have already asked the school board for those portable classrooms. But you wouldn’t know that if you didn’t attend the School Board meetings. Because, not everything makes it into the minutes of the meetings.

That is another reason for not videoing the meetings and posting them on the West Elk web site. The School Board doesn’t want you to know, what is really going on. They don’t want transparency.

So really, what is the "need?"

The School Board has also on several occasions during School Board Meetings, discussed raising our property taxes 4 mil and that they could do that every year if they want to. One member even suggested 5 mil, SORRY State law is 4 mil max. You won’t read that in the Minutes either. They don’t want transparency.

Has there been any real discussion about education during School Board Meetings? I mean real education in the classroom? You know about improving the Educational Standards? “NO”! Has there been any discussion during School Board Meetings concerning SPORTS? “YES”! At every School Board meeting!

This construction is not about Education, but it is about SPORTS --- a new gymnasium!


This is about “WANT” not “NEED” !
PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 25, 2014, 07:36:04 PM



(https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10336652_700019066725827_7674856406524200115_n.jpg)

Isn't the very same thing happening on the local levels across the country?
Isn't this the reason for so many cities filing BANRUPTCY?

The elites control but don't listen?

Our elites were told just a few years ago loud and clear "NO"!

Do they listen?

If the Bond Issue fails as they expect it too, they have already said they plan to do it again in November!

Let's see if they really will Bully us, what do you say?

Ignoring us twice is an annoyance, but coming back a third time would be BULLYING, in my opinion!

No political correctness here, is there?


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Patriot on May 25, 2014, 08:54:48 PM
We are not talking about "afford".  We are talking about what is "needed".... 

... Do our children have to wait until we can "afford" it to have a decent school environment?

I would like to know just how much this will raise our taxes per hundred dollars.   I can think of a number of things that I can give up, if necessary, to pay the added tax.

1.  Since when do kids 'need' a new gym?  Methinks you confuse 'need' with 'want'.

2.  So, you think the current school environment is somehow indecent?  Compare the schools you attended in decades past and then show how the current facilities are somehow of lower standards, please.

3.  About 4.8 mils at last tally.  That's north of $110,000 per year, for many years, to the taxpayers in the USD 282 District.  Not to mention it places the taxpayers in debt to bondholders not just for money loaned to the district but interest as well.  With a shrinking and aging local population, the state of the economy locally, regionally & nationally, and the inherent risks of having substantial debt, one 'needs' to consider the wisdom of significant debt... both at the personal and corporate levels. 

If the district can afford sprinkler systems for ball fields out of pocket, and if the have (and have had for several years) enough money on hand to fix roof leaks & air conditioning (but have not done so), perhaps you might consider chastising the school board & administration for their apparent mismanagement rather than praising them for their glutenous, selfish desires to borrow big money for the 'wants' of a few.

Time, tests & reality have shown decade after decade that throwing money at the public education system (especially at brick and mortar issues) does NOT produce better educational outcomes.  High quality teachers, innovative curriculum & administrations dedicated to quality teaching do.


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Wilma on May 26, 2014, 08:18:55 AM
$110,000 per year for many years, but just how much of that will be on MY tax bill?

My question still hasn't been answered.  I want dollars and cents as it applies to me, not to the whole county.  How much per $100.00 will my taxes be raised?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: nykkylsdymes on May 26, 2014, 09:48:31 AM
$110,000 per year for many years, but just how much of that will be on MY tax bill?

My question still hasn't been answered.  I want dollars and cents as it applies to me, not to the whole county.  How much per $100.00 will my taxes be raised?


First let me state that the entire county is NOT effected, only those living in USD 282. 

I certainly don't have the exact answer for that question.  I don't know how many tax payers are in this school district.  But if I could take a wild guess, and I mean this is a true wild guess, let's say there are 750 of us poor people to foot the bill for the next....oh 30 years???   if my math is right and someone please correct me if I am wrong, it's about $100/yr or more maybe???  Again, I am not entirely sure of the formula so I am doing my best wild guessing here.  That being said... over 36 years...$3600 or so.  Not bad you say.  You can find the extra cash to help out, great.  Now those of us who are still paying a mortgage, raising children, paying for the rising cost of gasoline, tires, oil, food, propane, groceries, utilities and clothes will find it tougher.  And oh yeah, when you die... I get to pick up the slack because there aren't a whole lot of people moving to this wonderful county any time soon.  Contrary to popular belief around these parts, building a school does not make people move here.  JOBS do. 

On top of local taxes, I pay state and federal taxes. You don't pay those do you?  You are on a pension, right?? Working people pay those.  Comes right out of my paycheck.  Now granted, the State and the Feds decreased from last year but where do you think they have to make up the shortfall???  Local taxes... they rose $1,285,785.00 from last years budget.  And now you want to tack on another $4,000,000.00 and strap the local tax payers with that for the next 25+ years???  Wow.  :o  Good heavens, that would make our little schools total expenditures over $12,000,000.00!!!!!  But it doesn't look as bad when you spread it out, does it? 

If you are paying attention to budgets, not just the schools but our local budget as well, the State and the Feds are shutting off the tap and putting the burden on the Local Government.  That means more out of our pockets at the local level.  Do you even have a clue what we pay for??? Not just the roads, papers and pens at the courthouse, but we pay 95% of their health insurance (the school pays all of it for single employees bet it is 95% for all others) and I can't even afford health insurance for myself.


So go ahead Miss Wilma.... pay your part.  Bully for you. 

I still say NO.  Improve what we have, make do just like everyone else has to.  Fix the leaks and pay the teachers to do their job.  Just like you said Wilma, replace the air conditioner when it no longer works, but don't build the new home because you want a bigger air conditioner. 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Wilma on May 26, 2014, 11:18:21 AM
You are right about my income, except the pension never increases the way the cost of living does and it is a very piddling one at that.  Social Security increases only if the cost of living rises a certain amount.  I can't change jobs to increase my income or receive a raise like working people do.  I, also, have all the expenses you listed except the mortgage as I managed to have my property paid for before I retired.  I raised four children, sent them to school on tax money paid by people like me whose children no longer benefited from it.  Now it is my turn to help with today's children.  I am willing to do that.

Another thread mentions the new handicapped parking being developed at the court house.  I am very grateful for that and for the tax money that is paying for it, but just how many Elk County taxpayers are going to benefit from it?  Yet I am not hearing any complaints about the cost of it?  You may not need to use it, but you are paying your share.

Why are people so set against paying for anything for the school?

I still don't have an answer as to just how many dollars per hundred the school bond would raise my taxes.
Doesn't anyone know how to figure it?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 26, 2014, 12:03:11 PM
Ross, a nosy question from me.If you are so bad off financially, why not go back to work, sell off some land or rent a house to lower your taxes. Why do you assume everyone out there is as poor as you feel you are? It sounds to me like you have more of a lifestyle problem related to finances than a school bond issue problem.  Also, apparently your folks out there do not get out and vote, regardless of the tax issue Doesn't that bother you? You are quick to suggest that your teachers aren't earning their pay. How about poking at those who don't go vote.
 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 26, 2014, 12:13:02 PM

Why are people so set against paying for anything for the school?


People are not against what is NEEDED for the School to provide an education for children!

Personally, I am against spending money foolishly !

Education does not require a Taj Mahal and a Crystal Chandlier, does it?

Education doesn't require a professional football stadium and  logo's on the basketball court for a professional look either, does it? That is what education at West Elk has become.

Next they will be wanting a Concert Hall which is not required for K-12 education, is it?

Today we are being told that a computer is required to learn simple reading, writing and arithmetic, thanks to corporations. The corporations that are making billions of dollars selling computers and software to the   school districts. It's all about the BIG bucks.

The kids most likely know more about computers than their teachers, but check out their spelling. Even with spell check they can't get it right. 

Just what is education, what is the definition of Education for West Elk?

Is education about better and bigger buildings and bigger debts?

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 26, 2014, 12:55:26 PM

Ross, a nosy question from me.If you are so bad off financially, why not go back to work, sell off some land or rent a house to lower your taxes.

Diane what a perception you have? I am wondering right now, where I can receive a loan to buy a new pair of underwear, they are just too costly and my boys need the support? Come on Diane won’t you co-sign a note for me?

Why do you assume everyone out there is as poor as you feel you are? It sounds to me like you have more of a lifestyle problem related to finances than a school bond issue problem.

I don’t ass/u/me anything!
And I don’t feel poor!
Where do you come off with this crap?
I probably have more income than the average working income in Elk County at the present time.

Your poor comprehension is apparently subsidized by dreaming up B.S.
When are you going to tell us that you designed the 9-11 memorial?
 
To wastefully spend $4,000,000.00 is foolishness, but you can not grasp or comprehend that clear up in Delaware. Of course you are aware, you are in Delaware aren’t you?
Just taking a reality check there my little figment!

Also, apparently your folks out there do not get out and vote, regardless of the tax issue Doesn't that bother you? You are quick to suggest that your teachers aren't earning their pay. How about poking at those who don't go vote.

That is what living in Delaware deprives you of my little figment.
Why do you want to put down my friends and neighbor.
It must be that Konnection you have, huh?
I sure am glad it isn’t contagious!

Apparently, you did not comprehend that 75 to 80% of the voters voted “NO” on the last Bond Issue. And that has lead the School Board and the School Superintendent and the Site Council to decide to canvass voters. They will be Trying to change the out come.
I hope who ever listens to them asks for documentation to back up their words.

There you go with more fabrications about teachers earning their pay.
I have never said anything about our teachers earning their pay.
But I will say that like in any job, you will have a bad employee or two.

As I have said in another post I have relatives that are teachers. A married couple in my family are both retired teachers --- one was an excellent teacher the other a poor teacher. It happens. Does a poor teacher or worker earn their pay Diane? Just common sense isn’t it?

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE,   be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE,   Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 26, 2014, 01:29:06 PM
Just to show you the incomprehensible cornfusion and lack of comprehension and rudeness out of Delaware and why it is a figment of my imagination, please read the following concerning the discussion of Common Core.

Lets see..no Gov't schooling= lower classes who stay ignorant, can't find work in today's high tech world, so we the taxpayers, have to pay for them with food stamps,.welfare and all the free stuff.Which is better? Either way the public pays. HA!

Speaking of staying ignorant, your government schooling is a very good example. 

It was the Republicans who created the scheme for universal free education after the Civil War.  The tyrants, along with mob rule voting, have been in charge of education in the USA since then.  They're teaching what they want their citizens and immigrants to learn.  After the Civil War, the Southern States were required to create a State Board of Education for the particular Southern State to be re-admitted to the Union.  That was the beginning of State Boards and the concept spread into the northern states soon thereafter.  Ross has mentioned that the Kansas BOE was founded in 1873 so now you should know that the republicans/socialists got their way in education over the entire USA shortly after the Civil War which the north defeated the America as established by our founding fathers.

The Republicans have been stealing the liberty of Americans since 1861 and as the Democrats have more fully accepted re-construction, neither party defends liberty anymore.  Both parties are pro-government and worship the Fed's power just like you Diane.

AH yes....room temperature IQ speaks again.  Do you collect points for everyone you try to insult? Good grief, you have slammed everyone.Repubs, Demos, Moderates, Independents,educators...Who died and left the office of professional griper to you? HA! ;D ;D ;D.... And you don't even live and vote in ELK COUNTY? WHOOOOO!  Why in the world would anyone who is concerned about Elk County politics listen to you? That bond issue won't affect you one way or another! At least I support Elk County projects when I can.
  I'm very pro education but not at all costs. I'm also a very frugal person who wants good value for every penny I spend.Fluff and icing in education means nothing to me. Things that will help kids get ready for the adult world they will live in? Yes! That includes art and music, drama and sports too. If just a job is what is wanted, go to an industrial training school.

Who's IQ is room temperature?
I hope you are looking in a mirror!

It does not take a lot of comprehension to read the title/subject of this thread.

And I quote, "Re: Common Core Education And More About Federal Government Control"

That has nothing to do with the present ballot in Elk County!

Common Core is a national affliction?

I do believe Diane that you owe redcliffsw an extreme apology.

How shameful!

But, I doubt he would stoop so low as to accept it.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: readyaimduck on May 26, 2014, 01:41:02 PM
 How much per $100.00 will my taxes be raised? per Wilma....forgot how to quote, sorry.

Wilma:  assuming you live in a Residential Classification, take your ASSESSED value and multiply that times your mill levy.  That is your tax dollars you pay to the county.  The school gets x amount of those mils based on their budget.
Example:  my house is assessed at $3278.  It is assessed (by the appraised value x 11.5%) then take that times the mill levy for your county.  That is tax dollars you pay.  Appraised value may not change, however the increased mil levy will boost it up a notch in yur pocket!
The mil levy set by the county is based off of all the entities (townships, school, county budget etc).  Your portion of taxes you pay is divvied up within that total county budget percentage. 

Compare your last year taxes/assessed and mil levy to this years  (Mil levy is set around October for the year 2014)   1$ on 1,000 assessed value.  Assessed value stays the same...Mill levy goes up?  take $100 times the schools levy and you have your dollars out of your wallet.  (They give the breakdown on the school in your tax bill)

If this is not clear, then I need to quit typing....hope this helps.

ready .......for math. class

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: readyaimduck on May 26, 2014, 01:49:00 PM
addendum:  I pay $82.05 plus $19.56 to my school district.  I have no kids there....$20 is 5 gal gas for the lawnmower.
On $100 appraised or even assessed...not much if any.
you can take this and work with it, or spin it anyway you want.

ready....to wobbly pop one more
edit as I read the wrong line
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Wilma on May 27, 2014, 12:05:24 PM
I finally got an answer to my question as to just how much the school bond would raise my taxes.  What I am going to say is not about the assessed value but about the taxes you are billed for in dollars and cents.  On a total TAX BILL of $1,000.00 the tax increase would be $20.00 a year.  Yes, twenty dollars a year.  That is less than a trip to Wichita, a new book from my book club, about half a dozen new plants for my garden or a new rose bush.  Gee, it is hard to decide what to give up.  If only I smoked or imbibed, it would be a couple of packs of cigarettes or several six packs.  I am just guessing about the smokes and beer.

I really appreciate the forum members that post in a concise way that can be read and understood.  This is the way that problems get solved.

I will vote "yes" on the proposed school bond.  Twenty dollars a year is not too much to pay for upgrading our school system.  At twenty dollars a year it would take five years to pay for a new pair of shoes for me.  Incidentally,  the 2% increase is just about the same as the cost of living increase.  One month's increase in my social security will take care one year's increase in my taxes.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: David Evans on May 27, 2014, 12:55:08 PM
Hey Ross here it is,

I have been attending school board meetings for the past few years.  Yeah, I lost a school board election, lost the chance to be appointed when the Moline board member quit, but I keep going. 

Starting with a school board meeting where we met with the Assembly of God church and took a tour of their new community center.  When the board took the tour there was a feeling that the AOG community building would be able to be used to supplement the lack of space that West Elk couldn't provide.  However, within  couple of meetings it was decided that West Elk needed to add on buildings to give the students space to grow.  No matter what the AOG said, the feeling at the following meetings was that we needed to add on to the existing building to best serve the students.  At one meeting it was stated that we couldn't ask the students to walk through mud to get to the community center.  Then, an architect was hired to develop a plan to figure out how to reconfigure the school to be able to accommodate the students now enrolled or to figure out an addition that would handle the classload.  One of the first meetings it was decided to add another portable to ease the crowding in the classes.  The architect said he could find a used portable for a mere $5000.  It was decided at this meeting to put the new portable where the school had just located a brand new playground for the children.  However, at the next meeting the architect informed the board he couldn't locate a portable building so it was decided to have him draw up plans for a new addition to the school.  I won't bore you with details, but after several meetings it was decided to add on classrooms to the school  and also add a new elementary gym.  Forget about the new building just to the north of the school.  When the time came to come up with the amount of money to build these new additions a board member made a motion to spend $1,000,000.00 to just add classrooms.  It died for the lack of a second.  Then, the board discussed various amounts of money they thought the public would approve.  The amounts ranged from just over $6,000,000 to only $3,000,000.  Finally the amount decided upon was $4,000,000.00.  Surely the public would approve this miserly amount.  However, when a contractor was brought in a few months ago, he stated that he could not give the board an estimate on cost because the plans weren't complete enough for him to accurately give a bid. 

To those of you that do not go to board meetings discussion was held last fall on repairing the roof and replacing the 15+ year old air conditioners.  A board member moved last fall to get estimates on repair and replacement.  It passed.  However, when the bids came in, a motion was made to get the roof fixed and air conditioners replaced during the summer of 2014.  It died for the lack of a second.  The president stated that when we got a contractor to build the new additions that they would give us a break on the new roof and air conditioners.  Yeah, I believe that.  Now, the earliest that we will see any improvements to the school will be in the summer of 2015.  When class is in session I don't believe that we will see workers on the roof or air conditioners being replaced.  There is approximately $1,000,000.00 in the capital improvement fund that would cover the cost of repair and replacement.
The editorial in the Prairie Star was correct that the growth in student population was from students already in district or coming from neighboring districts.  With taxes already about the highest in the state we have virtually no chance of attracting new businesses or homeowners to our area.  Local taxes have gone up 184% from 2005 to 2012.  Main reason.  School.

Let's think outside the box for a minute.  We have 37 teachers(2012 data from KDSE).  That's not too bad.  However we employee 102 other employees.  Bus drivers, cooks, paras, staff.  Some of these paras and teachers are in the special ed cooperative with Sedan and Longton.  However,  Independence in Montgomery County, employees 103 other employees.  Oh, but they have 1901 students.  Again, this is 2012 data from KDSE.  West Elk during this same time period had 307 students.  Hmmmmmmm.

West Elk also has two years of preschool.  The state doesn't count these as students.  They also don't require that we have preschool.  At a board meeting two years ago it was reported that the kindergarten class was huge.(21 students)  It was voted on and passed that the class be divided in two and two teachers hired(already were) and four paras(2 in each class).  The class, if memory serves me correctly was divided into 9 in one class and 12 in the other.  9 kids, 3 adults.  What would happen if we reduced the numbers of paras by half?  At least 50 less adults in the classrooms.  Possibly more room for the children?

Ross may be a salty old sea dog but he is not a liar.  Take it from one who is there. 

If you don't believe what I have written, why don't you come to the board meetings and see what goes on with your own eyes.  Very few of you do or have.

Ross.  Anytime you need a foxhole, I'll be glad to share mine.

 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 27, 2014, 02:32:17 PM
A conversation between Diane of Delaware and myself of Elk County Kansas. I moved this conversation from the thread known as "Re: Elk Konnected Hand out at County" just so know one would miss it.
Please take note of Mrs. Delaware informing someone that basically has no right to post.  



Ross, by the way, you keep talking about the % of voters that turned down the last referendum...out of how many registered voters? A big % of a very small number of "potential" voters doesn't mean much, except that many people don't care what the results are.

AH yes....room temperature IQ speaks again.

It makes no difference how many voters, vote? What maters are what percentage votes for or against the Bond Issue! Sorry to have to inform you of what really matters.

But alas, I feel you are sending an altogether different message!
The School Board and the Superintendent and the Site Committee have all said they would get out to the public? Aren’t you indicating they will try to get people registered to vote, that haven’t registered? Register more people that may vote “NO”! That is if they can find any that are not registered!

Perhaps now you can comprehend why, I am trying to encourage people to discuss this situation and not necessarily take my word for anything.

Well lets just review what you said to redcliffsw shall we? “you don't even live and vote in ELK COUNTY” and “That bond issue won't affect you one way or another”. Diane please stand in front of your mirror and repeat these statements, please! Thank you!
See here is the actual post:
[ quote author=Diane Amberg link=topic=15765.msg219752#msg219752 date=1401122520 ]
Quote
And you don't even live and vote in ELK COUNTY? WHOOOOO!  Why in the world would anyone who is concerned about Elk County politics listen to you? That bond issue won't affect you one way or another! At least I support Elk County projects when I can.  
Now realize this, this is not an Elk County project!
And consider this is a voter responsibility!
West Elk USD-282 registered voters!
When did you register, Diane?

I will repeat, what in your background allows you to decide what a Taj Mahal school is?

Apparently, you do not comprehend the meaning of “figure of speech” as it relates to the use of the words “Taj Mahal”! Basic English, basic “Figure of Speech.”
Like your remark to redcliff:
AH yes....room temperature IQ speaks again.

Or how rooms are used? Room needs are much different now from when West Elk was built. There need to be classes for computer training, computers in rooms, even in elementary school and they take up space. Kids often change classes for reading and math.Since the exchange usually is equal, they have to have some place to sit when they do.(I don't know if your kids change or not.) When kids are doing group learning or projects, they need space to work.They don't all sit glued to their desks all day like you probably remember. Some schools do immersion classes in another language, even in elementary.Ya have to have space to do it! Personal and small group tutoring has to go somewhere also.
 If you spend and have spent so much time in your son's school, surely you know that. Plus, you are stuck with the state's building regulations. Some where there must be some middle ground. I hope cooler heads will find it.

The Board Hired a retired Professor out of Missouri to help them organize themselves and to do community studies, the follow through --- nothing! What would have a much wiser use of that money would have been a much more productive use of taxpayer money would have been an efficiency expert, in my opinion. After all wouldn’t you want an efficiently ran school for your child and your property tax.

Of course Diane classrooms and children take up room, that’s a no brainer. But when you have a building designed to handle 600 students and only have 300 enrolled you don’t  need more room. The School Superintendent has said 600 several times at open School Board Meetings, contrary to the rumor going around that it was designed for 340 students. (LOL)

Anyway Diane here is a list just for you!

•   I live here!
•   I vote here!
•   I have attended West Elk School District Board Meetings and have observed the attitudes around the table. Not to good! There are no real conversations, President unless you consider the whining of the Board President saying his chldren won’t have a new gymnasium to play in.
•   This School Board has no idea, in my opinion, what their actual job is!
•   This School Board told the state that they saved $150,000.00 shutting down two grade school ! (which points out that the board cannot be trusted to answer to the voters and cannot be trusted to do what the voters want!)

•   This School Board then spent $500,000.00 to replace the classrooms that were disposed of with eight classrooms in four portable buildings.
•   The West Elk School has been operating just fine for the last 5 years and there has been no population explosion in the District.
•   The School Board has consistently ignored suggestions from experts in construction, and maintenance and surveys they commissioned and paid for with taxpayer dollars.
•   If they get the money for the Bond Issue passed they have said they will dispose of the eight classroom in 4 portable buildings thus reducing the classroom capacity by the same amount that they now have. That’s $500,000.00 wasted!
•   What they really need is an efficiency expert to perform an unbiased study and I am certain the School would be just fine.
•   The only addition will be a second gymnasium which is not necessary for educating the children, but for fulfilling someone’s ego, nothing more!
•   One of the architects that study the building and drew up floor plans (an expert) said at a School Board meeting, the school had luxurious classrooms and that 2 class rooms could be made into 3 classrooms!
•   The School Board has even discussed moveable walls for dividing classrooms!
•   This School Board shut down, two grade schools after the voters and taxpayer said “NO”! And they planned the election now, knowing it will fail, with the idea to return in November.
•   A new gymnasium is not a need for classroom education!

Thank You Diane, in the Words of your Konnection, for engaging me. (LOL)

Oh by the way Diane in all your infinite wisdom you have failed to tell us how many School Board Members are associated with Elk Konnected.  Or is it you just don't know?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 27, 2014, 04:08:15 PM
Hey Ross here it is,

I have been attending school board meetings for the past few years.  Yeah, I lost a school board election, lost the chance to be appointed when the Moline board member quit, but I keep going. 

I was there, and before you said, you wanted the job, nobody else wanted it.

I found it strange the way the meeting went, all of a sudden out of no where some lady wants the position, just bam! Out of no where? So when you petitioned the School Board you were not expecting competition and you knew the board members knew you from all your visits to the Board Meetings and therefore did not prepare a fancy speech. Each and everyone of the Board members were aware of your diligence and interest.

Then this lady who appeared out of nowhere, who never came to the Board meetings to my knowledge had a fancy speech all wrote up.

There was not even a whisper of a conversation after the both of you had presented yourselves.

I believe, it was the President of the Board that immediately said, I nominate “whatever her name” is for the position. And there was no discussion amongst the Board Members about either candidate, there was an immediate second, followed by a vote.

To me, it appeared already a done deal, before the meeting even started.

Starting with a school board meeting where we met with the Assembly of God church and took a tour of their new community center.  When the board took the tour there was a feeling that the AOG community building would be able to be used to supplement the lack of space that West Elk couldn't provide.  However, within  couple of meetings it was decided that West Elk needed to add on buildings to give the students space to grow.  No matter what the AOG said, the feeling at the following meetings was that we needed to add on to the existing building to best serve the students.  At one meeting it was stated that we couldn't ask the students to walk through mud to get to the community center.  Then, an architect was hired to develop a plan to figure out how to reconfigure the school to be able to accommodate the students now enrolled or to figure out an addition that would handle the classload.  One of the first meetings it was decided to add another portable to ease the crowding in the classes.  The architect said he could find a used portable for a mere $5000.  It was decided at this meeting to put the new portable where the school had just located a brand new playground for the children.  However, at the next meeting the architect informed the board he couldn't locate a portable building so it was decided to have him draw up plans for a new addition to the school.  I won't bore you with details, but after several meetings it was decided to add on classrooms to the school  and also add a new elementary gym.  Forget about the new building just to the north of the school.  When the time came to come up with the amount of money to build these new additions a board member made a motion to spend $1,000,000.00 to just add classrooms.  It died for the lack of a second.  Then, the board discussed various amounts of money they thought the public would approve.  The amounts ranged from just over $6,000,000 to only $3,000,000.  Finally the amount decided upon was $4,000,000.00.  Surely the public would approve this miserly amount.  However, when a contractor was brought in a few months ago, he stated that he could not give the board an estimate on cost because the plans weren't complete enough for him to accurately give a bid. 

To those of you that do not go to board meetings discussion was held last fall on repairing the roof and replacing the 15+ year old air conditioners.  A board member moved last fall to get estimates on repair and replacement.  It passed.  However, when the bids came in, a motion was made to get the roof fixed and air conditioners replaced during the summer of 2014.  It died for the lack of a second.  The president stated that when we got a contractor to build the new additions that they would give us a break on the new roof and air conditioners.  Yeah, I believe that.  Now, the earliest that we will see any improvements to the school will be in the summer of 2015.  When class is in session I don't believe that we will see workers on the roof or air conditioners being replaced.  There is approximately $1,000,000.00 in the capital improvement fund that would cover the cost of repair and replacement.
The editorial in the Prairie Star was correct that the growth in student population was from students already in district or coming from neighboring districts.  With taxes already about the highest in the state we have virtually no chance of attracting new businesses or homeowners to our area.  Local taxes have gone up 184% from 2005 to 2012.  Main reason.  School.

Let's think outside the box for a minute.  We have 37 teachers(2012 data from KDSE).  That's not too bad.  However we employee 102 other employees.  Bus drivers, cooks, paras, staff.  Some of these paras and teachers are in the special ed cooperative with Sedan and Longton.  However,  Independence in Montgomery County, employees 103 other employees.  Oh, but they have 1901 students.  Again, this is 2012 data from KDSE.  West Elk during this same time period had 307 students.  Hmmmmmmm.

West Elk also has two years of preschool.  The state doesn't count these as students.  They also don't require that we have preschool.  At a board meeting two years ago it was reported that the kindergarten class was huge.(21 students)  It was voted on and passed that the class be divided in two and two teachers hired(already were) and four paras(2 in each class).  The class, if memory serves me correctly was divided into 9 in one class and 12 in the other.  9 kids, 3 adults.  What would happen if we reduced the numbers of paras by half?  At least 50 less adults in the classrooms.  Possibly more room for the children?

Ross may be a salty old sea dog but he is not a liar.  Take it from one who is there. 

If you don't believe what I have written, why don't you come to the board meetings and see what goes on with your own eyes.  Very few of you do or have.

Ross.  Anytime you need a foxhole, I'll be glad to share mine.

 

I agree with what you have posted here and people should come down and see the fiasco that takes place. The picnic and the whispering and the total disregard for the public.

But alas, I believe, I have shamed them into finally setting up their table, so they face the audience. I can hardly wait for the next meeting, so I can get pictures for the people here on the forum. Perhaps there may be a little dignity and decorum.

Next thing is, to get them, to put to work, some of that expensive technology to work and video and broadcast the meetings live over the West Elk School System to in order to keep the public informed. We have the technology, so let’s bring this School Board into the 21st Century. What do you think? Would you willing accept phony excuses for not live casting the meetings? The School Board has made it clear that we old folks don’t appreciate the importance of technology. Let’s now see, if they appreciate the importance of technology, shall we? Let’s see if they really want the public informed?

Do they really want informed voters?

Let's see if they really do. Let's see them get these meetings up on the internet, now?





Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 28, 2014, 08:36:22 AM
Who gave you permission to move my posts anywhere?  >:(  Kinda forward aren't cha?
Gee, I guess if you try to smear my name I can't run for your school board long distance after all, now can I ;D ;D ;D ;D ? According to you, they are so bad I could actually be an improvement just by being a member by internet. ;D.
Why don't you and Red put on your cast iron skivies and learn to take what you throw. You certainly don't understand allegory or political sarcasm.
It's Red, not you who keeps stirring the pot but can't vote. Reread what i said ...and leave my posts alone.DO NOT move them!  Lay off! You have been told before!
By the way, I found Mr.Evans' post very informative. He at least listed the classrooms and programs that are usually not noticed or listed, but do use space.
Your kids are in school NOW not in the 1950's and that's what the parents want for their kids, a modern education.   Perhaps the state school building standards should be changed so it's not an all or nothing situation.  Some true negotionation should help. If others can do it ,so can you. Doesn't your son go to Elk Valley?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 28, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Who gave you permission to move my posts anywhere?  >:(  Kinda forward aren't cha?

You post – is public – quoting is available – I used quoting- simple.

You have no control, tch-tch!

Reread what i said ...and leave my posts alone.DO NOT move them!  Lay off! You have been told before!

Your original post is exactly where you put it!
Let me ask you, when did you become Czar of the internet?
Who are you to tell me, what I can or can not quote and post?
Aren’t you angrier at yourself, than me, because you are ashamed of your own post.
When I post to someone’s remarks, I quote them, just in case someone decides to delete the post I am responding to.

AH yes....room temperature IQ speaks again.  Who died and left the office of professional griper to you? HA! ;D ;D ;D.... And you don't even live and vote in ELK COUNTY? WHOOOOO! 

You are great at being a bully in my opinion and a failure paying attention to what you post and how it applies to you.  Just where in Elk County do you live?

Why in the world would anyone who is concerned about Elk County politics listen to you? That bond issue won't affect you one way or another! At least I support Elk County projects when I can..

Again please, listen to yourself.


Doesn't your son go to Elk Valley?

What does my son have to do with the West Elk USD-282 Bond Election Issue?
Why is it that you wish to use children and students as a weapon to prove something?
Have you no couth?
 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 28, 2014, 11:04:38 AM
I simply want to ensure that everyone gets to see my conversation with Diane and the game she is playing.

Please explain how holding a vote now, which you say you know for sure will fail,

You don't attend West Elk School Board Meetings do you?

You also do read very well either do you or is it you just like twisting words?

I never said, I am sure it will fail. Those are your words!

The School Board feels it will fail, they expressed that at is at several meetings. Of course stuff like that does not make the Minutes, just like the President of the Board whining that his kids would grow up and graduate without the privilege of playing in a brand new gymnasium.

Why not just wait until November?


I thought you were the political expert?
It is the School Board’s plan not mine, they said it not me!
My assumption ----  would be to wear the voters down.


Quote from: Diane Amberg link=topic=11780.msg219797#msg219797
Or are you suggesting the board is throwing money to the ballot printer, and the postal service? HMMM.

I have suggested nothing of the kind.
But you just did, Diane.
Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?

Quote from: Diane Amberg link=topic=11780.msg219797#msg219797
Away,ya bore me.


Don’t you mean all your college degrees can not keep of with this unedumacted redneck,  due to a comprehension problem you tend to show frequently.

My sincerest apologies! It is always a pleasure to communicate with you.


Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 28, 2014, 01:07:13 PM
Oh, boo-hoo. You do lie! Go back and read your #55, with a misspelling, where you state you did move my post so nobody would miss it.  But who cares, according to you nobody reads what I write anyway, so why does it matter to you? Ya get points toward a fudge monkey? :angel:
 Now who needs the iron underwear? Touchy about your teenager? Why? HA! Suck it up! As far as being allowed to post, I sure do have that privilege and you can't change it. There are a number who post who do not live there, some who still pay taxes and some who don't.
You do hit me up with all kinds of things that have nothing to do with anything.Why? People are not impressed at your attempts to hassle me. Some have left because they got sick of you doing that to others.  We all have the right to voice our opinions without having verbal boiling water thrown at us. Besides, my family paid A LOT in Elk County taxes generations before you were born and right on to when we sold the last of the property and wells a few years ago.. so what? How much money people have spent seems to be very important to you...reverse snobbery? Jealous? It means nothing, except that I still care about the county and its people, and do support some its projects when I can... working on three right now.
 Nothing you say to me, as nasty and rude as you can be, will ever change that. I'd think you would have understood that by now. Your nasty ways, especially talking behind people's backs, does not impress the good folk out there. Or are you trying to earn your self imposed rude, uneducated hick reputation? People shouldn't have to " forgive" your insults and put downs to get to your good ideas, and there are some.Why bury them in manure? Isn't that beneath you?
The only threads I usually comment on now are education oriented, unless you try to start up something again to keep your blood from clotting.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 28, 2014, 08:39:23 PM
Oh, boo-hoo. You do lie! Go back and read your #55, with a misspelling, where you state you did move my post so nobody would miss it.  But who cares, according to you nobody reads what I write anyway, so why does it matter to you? Ya get points toward a fudge monkey? :angel:

I misstated what I meant. Because, I can not move your post, I can only quote or copy and past your post.

Your comprehension is slipping deeper and deeper. You original post is still right where you put it. I quoted and copied and pasted it, that’s all. I do not have the ability to move it or delete it.

Now who needs the iron underwear? Touchy about your teenager? Why? HA! Suck it up! As far as being allowed to post, I sure do have that privilege and you can't change it. There are a number who post who do not live there, some who still pay taxes and some who don't.

When someone of your ilk attempts to use any child as a weapon, yes, I find it a terrible stunt. A shameful action and I will call any one on such behavior.

You do hit me up with all kinds of things that have nothing to do with anything.Why? People are not impressed at your attempts to hassle me. Some have left because they got sick of you doing that to others.  We all have the right to voice our opinions without having verbal boiling water thrown at us. Besides, my family paid A LOT in Elk County taxes generations before you were born and right on to when we sold the last of the property and wells a few years ago.. so what? How much money people have spent seems to be very important to you...reverse snobbery? Jealous? It means nothing, except that I still care about the county and its people, and do support some its projects when I can... working on three right now.


You spout off about a poster in such a nasty fashion and call it humor and then try to drag children into a conversation as a tool to do harm, and I am harassing you. No my dear, I was only correcting bad behavior. So you rattle on like a scolded child!

First you make this insulting and nasty remark and call it a joke:
AH yes....room temperature IQ speaks again.       
     
And then follow it up with this:
And you don't even live and vote in ELK COUNTY? WHOOOOO!  Why in the world would anyone who is concerned about Elk County politics listen to you? That bond issue won't affect you one way or another! At least I support Elk County projects when I can.

And you call me nasty and rude, take a close look in the mirror, dear.     

Nothing you say to me, as nasty and rude as you can be, will ever change that. I'd think you would have understood that by now. Your nasty ways, especially talking behind people's backs, does not impress the good folk out there. Or are you trying to earn your self imposed rude, uneducated hick reputation? People shouldn't have to " forgive" your insults and put downs to get to your good ideas, and there are some.Why bury them in manure? Isn't that beneath you?
The only threads I usually comment on now are education oriented, unless you try to start up something again to keep your blood from clotting.

You poor dear, you are so confused. I am not talking behind anyone’s back, and I am speaking directly to you. No, I am not a back stabber, and I have been extremely polite in dealing with your attitude. You fail to provide anything of value to the subject of the West Elk Bond Issue.

You still haven’t told us which Board Members are Konnected, so I must assume you don’t know.

Who ever commissioned you to address the Bond Issue surely regrets it, now.

And then you fabricate working on three projects to feel important! Poor, poor dear!

But, NONE of that has anything to do with today’s West Elk School Bond issue.

But it sure provides a form of entertainment. It is such a pleasure communicating with you.

That entertainment provides me an opportunity to remind folks to keep their eyes open for that special envelope from the County Court house for the West Elk Bond Ballot.

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE,   be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE,   Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "
[/quote]
 
An economist says. Just as every action is motivated by an underlying incentive, every decision has a related consequence. 
These people will complain about the conduct and spending of the Federal Government, and then they do the same thing on the local level!

Just a reminder of information you can download to your computer about West Elk USD282 and Elk County information.
Check out the facts. Aren't they wasting enough money that should be used for a better education of the children in the class room?
 
USD 282 Documents
https://app.box.com/s/7nbnimqqr6b2tkzudw6f

Documents Pertaining To The Survey
https://app.box.com/s/h260n5ybv7ttr2tl62jx
 
Piper Jafrey Financial
https://app.box.com/s/27jkb8ilpa55v0dhb3fw
 
Elk County Govt
https://app.box.com/s/dv5frjad5ddra6i3fn51[/center]
 
center]Be SMART, be SENSIBLE,   be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.[/center]
 
Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE,   Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Mom70x7 on May 29, 2014, 08:09:20 AM
From the Friday, May 16, 2014 Independence Daily Reporter, by Greg Lower, Staff Writer

Rumors and misunderstandings have complicated a bond election to construct elementary classrooms at West Elk School, the superintendent said.

On May 27, Elk County officials will send out a mail ballot for a $4 million bond election by the West Elk school district. The ballots, due back by noon June 17, will decide classroom and elementary school gym additions.

West Elk Superintendent Bert Moore said the current school building, built in the 1980s for seventh through 12th grades, has a capacity of 360 students, not 600 as some rumors claim. At the time, elementary students attended schools in Moline in Elk County and Severy in Greenwood County.

In 2009, voters turned down a proposal to construct an elementary school in Howard, possibly in an effort to keep the elementary schools open, but they were closed. This year, some of the elementary students attend classes in the main West Elk building, but most are in four modular buildings with two classrooms each. The campus has a headcount of approximately 340, with some 160 pre-kindergarten through sixth grade and 150 seventh grade through high school seniors.

. . . .

Besides constructing eight elementary classrooms, totaling 13,880 square feet, the proposal would build a 11,558-square foot elementary physical education classroom north of the existing high school gym annex, which would be tied together with the main building for security.

Security is an area of concern, Moore said, after mass shootings including at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

"Right now, we have doors everywhere," Moore said, and people go in and out several times every day. "I have parents very concerned their kids are targets."

. . . .

Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: David Evans on May 29, 2014, 09:07:03 AM
One item that I have not seen fully discussed at any of the board meetings I attended was the fact that if any of these new additions are attached to the school, the entire school must be brought up to current American with Disabilities Act.  This may not sound like much but just imagine doors that must be widened, bathrooms that must have special stalls in place, braille placed by doors and offices, and other items we can't even imagine.  No money has been allocated to address any of these issues.

As I said in my earlier post, The figure of $4,000,000.00 was basically pulled out of the air.  Although we have already spent close to $30,000 on an architect we still have no firm plans for materials, no construction firm that has put in a bid, and no answers on how this will be built if the money raised by the bond issue isn't enough.

We could have had a new roof and new air conditioners installed this year if the board would have followed through on the motion to accept a bid that was presented earlier.  The contractor for the air conditioners said that the efficiency of the new units would pay for themselves in 5-7 years.  We have the money to do this in the capital improvement fund, but now we will have to wait until 2015 at the earliest to complete this project.  Why?  Because the bids given have an expiration date and that date is gone.  If the bond fails, the board will have to decide what to do now.  Even if they put out for new bids it will probably be too late in the summer to start this project.  I can't imagine roofers and installers working with classes going on. 

Do your own due diligence and check with the school and see how many leaks we have had so far this year.  The last time I heard there were four.  I don't even remember four storms this year severe enough to account for these leaks.

Yes, some classes may be crowded now, but what can we do to ease the crowding?  How about looking into cutting some of our programs.  Is there really a need for 2 years of preschool?  The data I have seen shows a slight improvement in the first year or so of regular school but after that there is no advantage.  Remember, if you can, a few years ago when the was a push to help start a daycare center in our area.  What daycare can operate on dwindling numbers of children especially when the school is basically offering free daycare. 

"It's for the children" is a phrase I hear too often today.  Sports are a necessary part of any education program.  But do we really need to have electronic scoreboards on every field, press boxes, or underground sprinkler systems.  Our board seems to think we do.  Oh, by the way, we already have all of the above except the football field does not yet have the sprinkler system.  When the contract was let to add dirt to the football field, there were no specifications on the type of soil to be used.  When the contractor brought in the material to be used an uproar ensued.  Rocks the size of basketballs, huge roots, and the composition was mainly clay.  The next board meeting it was moved to have this material removed.  However, there now isn't time to replace and grade the field and get grass started so we will just try to get grass growing in time for football season.

These are some of the reasons that I will be voting against the bond issue.  I don't trust some of the decisions that have been made by this board.  Please don't get me wrong.  Being a board member is probably one of the most thankless jobs you can try to get.  My wife was happy when I was defeated in my attempt to get this great job.  But, as you know, if you have a few strong willed individuals they can sometimes, without even trying, influence the decisions of the board. 

Please vote.  It's about the only thing we have left.  But do remember, we have options other than throwing money at a problem we have now but may not in the future.

Thank you
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 29, 2014, 09:11:48 AM
The post about the article in the Independence Daily Reporter is nothing more than a sales pitch!
That is why politicians uses newspapers to advertise. They don't have to document anything and they don't have to talk to anyone. They can simply type up a news release and get it printed. Which is really less than an editorial and more an advertisement. Do you believe all the advertisements you see on TV or read in magazines and newspapers?   

I repeat, my parents and their parents always said, believe none of what you read and only half of what you see! That has even become more important since the internet. Why? Photoshop and other software that's why. Remember the guy walking his dog and the dog is as big as a cow or horse?

Perhaps we should ask ourselves, why the officials don’t provide documentation:

1.   Where is the proof ?
2.   Where is the documentation?
3.   There is none - why?

Following was my response to
Repost quoting herself above:

Statements in Red are what was posted from the previous post.
My response and opinions are in BLUE.

 
Parts of what Mom70x7 posted.

"West Elk Superintendent Bert Moore said the current school building, built in the 1980s for seventh through 12th grades, has a capacity of 360 students, not 600 as some rumors claim."

The rumors are not rumors. I quoted Mr. Moore from the School Board Meeting, during open session of the meeting and he said the school was built to handle 600 children. So who is he lying to, the School Board or Independence Reporter?

But the story printed in the Independence Daily Reporter is not supported by any documentation

I have to ask why, did he go to the Independence Daily Reporter instead of the local paper, The Prairie Star, with this story?


In 2009, voters turned down a proposal to construct an elementary school in Howard, possibly in an effort to keep the elementary schools open, but they were closed.


They were closed against the wishes of the taxpayers. They were closed to set up this situation, which is not fairing well, is it? The School Board simply wrote off the people that voted, ignored the majority of the taxpayers.  They were to busy having their little picnic and laughing to discuss amongst themselves the consequences of their actions.  They acted just like the Obama Administration. To me it came across as blatantly clear to me it was all about Howard. With 75% of the district voting no and 75oward voting yes. That is exactly what I mean, it's about Howard.

They told the state they saved $150,000 and it has cost the taxpayer a great deal more. A great deal more is $500,000 for 4 double class rooms. They do not need to replace 8 class rooms that are that are that  expansive That real reason is to acquire a 2nd gymnasium. They have openly showed that what they want is professional sports arena. All you have to do is read the School Board Minutes to figure that out and use a little critical thinking.

 An economist says. Just as every action is motivated by an underlying incentive, every decision has a related consequence.  What is the underlying incentive.

These people will complain about the conduct and spending of the Federal Government, then they do the same thing on the local level!


The campus has a headcount of approximately 340, with some 160 pre-kindergarten through sixth grade and 150 seventh grade through high school seniors.

#1. We have been experiencing a decline in our enrollment for 12 of the last 15 years resulting in a loss of nearly 200 students since the 1992-93 school year. West Elk USD #282 is the largest employer in Elk County.

#2. Consolidate the elementary programs to one campus - @$128,000.

#1. & #2. Were copied and pasted from KSDE at http://www.usakansas.org/content/1/West_Elk_USD_-_Superintendent_Bert_Moore.pdf
You won't find the $500,000 for portable buildings to be able to close the two grade school buildings.

My elders always said, "Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see." Where is the state documentation?  Some people will believe anything, even if there is no proof.


Security is an area of concern, Moore said, after mass shootings including at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.
 
This is simply a fear factor generated to accomplishing getting the ballot passed. If they had any real  concerns they would close all the doors but one and have a person assigned at that door. They could use School Board Meetings to discuss what can do now with what they have on hand.

When the Moline Grade School was open they had a door bell at the front door and a camera connected to a monitor at the front office.  However many times I walked up to the door and found it open. No one was really concerned.

You see all the incidents like Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut happen in very large metropolitan area's. Do you see a metropolis in Elk County. The School Board has taken no actions, and I don't believe anyone even pays attention to bullying until it gets way out of hand. Which shows that simply writing a policy does nothing. Students have even complained when they report abuse nothing gets done.


Elementary, middle school and high school students use the same detached gym, which they reach through a covered walkway.


Isn't this what the School Boards actions have brought about! And isn't because the School Board went against the voters and taxpayers wishes?


One reason to put the issue on a ballot in June came from debate in the Kansas Legislature to end state support for bonds and interest on new facilities. Moore also said they were concerned the district would lose state funds for enrollment weighting with new facilities. Those proposals did not pass the last legislative session.

None of this has anything to do with the size of the building.
Enrollment weighting has to do with the number of students and our population continues to decline. FTE enrollment for budget purposes (higher of line 1, 2, or 3)(Goes to page 1, line 1 if no military provision; see Table IV.)
=315.0   from the USD Form 150
Taken from
2013-2014
ESTIMATED LEGAL MAXIMUM GENERAL FUND BUDGET at http://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School%20Finance/budget/Budget_at_a_Glance/13-14_Summary/F150-282-2014.pdf


But an issue that did pass  help the West Elk proposal. House Bill 2506, passed as a result of court-ordered increase in education funding, wil[color] increase state aid and offset some local taxes. Moore said the bond proposal seeks a levy of 10.8 mils, but the reduction in local taxes will be 4.8 mills, resulting in a 6-mill increase for school district taxpayers.

How come in the first sentence of the paragraph just above this paragraph we have the disclaimer,"bcould". then we have the more positive (it is not my spelling error wil[color]?  This definitely points out he is unsure of what he is saying. Why do you suppose that is, I'll tell you, it's because there is no money from it yet! It might be subject to change. Also, according to KSN 3 the state is in financial trouble. If we are fortunate to receive any money from the state aren't we the taxpayers entitled a tax break after all the years of wasteful spending by the School Board Elites?[/color][/b]


Todays Prairie Star newspaper says in big bold letters, "Bottom line on West Elk USD 282 bonds:
equivalent increase will be around 4.8 mills."

But folks up above and I quote , "Moore said the bond proposal seeks a levy of 10.8 mils".
 
He use's creative arithmetic to come up with 4.8 mils. You see we should get a reduction in property taxes which should be the difference between the two numbers. Or a 6.0 mil reduction in property taxes.

Oh and please be sure to read the letter to the editor from Wanda Mills, a terrific letter in my opinion.

The real bottom line is that we do not need and I emphasis need another gymnasium or eight class rooms or another office. When is enough, enough? When they have the School District in financial trouble like the state and the nation? Would that be enough?

The security that West Elk USD 282 needs is security from the School Board and the School Superintendent!
It's all just my opinion through out this post. Take it or leave it, your choice. But get that ballot filled out and mailed is as soon as possible. Gods speed and good night my friends.

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE,   be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and all problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE,   Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "
Only you can decide for yourself - talk without documentation is cheap and easy!
And that goes for my view point and opinions as well!

Please get your ballot for the School Bond Issue filled out and mailed in ASAP to avoid losing it!
I will because if I leave it laying around it would most likely end up under the couch.
Thanks to each and everyone that votes!
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 29, 2014, 09:41:38 AM
Ross.You know perfectly well nobody expects me to suggest anything one way or another about your bond issue. My concern is that you shut off other people's forum tap by being so rude to them, when ideas differ or your  "facts'' are questioned. You caused my post to show up in a different thread. I don't care how slippery you get with labels on how it got there..you did it and I don't like it! I am trying not to post on most threads, just the ones that deal with education. You appear to want to scare off other people by antagonizing them so you will have these threads all to yourself. Not everyone is up to your bile and rudeness.It takes more than one person to have a conversation or debate.
 By the way, West Elk has 33 graduating seniors with an amazing number of scholarships and prizes, mostly for post high school education. Congratulations to them all.
   
 You call me a liar about helping with three Elk County projects? Why?  What's it to you?   I still care, so I help when I can.
You keep posting that West Elk was built to hold 600, yet nobody but you seems to have heard Mr. Moore, or whomever it was say that.  Are you sure you didn't mishear what was said? Where are the others who heard it? It was at a public meeting, right? Where is your documentation? ;D ;D ;D ;D
 Hang in there Ross, the issue will pass or it won't. What in the world will you do if it passes?
 
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 29, 2014, 12:22:04 PM
Ross.You know perfectly well nobody expects me to suggest anything one way or another about your bond issue. My concern is that you shut off other people's forum tap by being so rude to them, when ideas differ or your  "facts'' are questioned. You caused my post to show up in a different thread. I don't care how slippery you get with labels on how it got there..you did it and I don't like it! I am trying not to post on most threads, just the ones that deal with education.

Slippery really! Who was jumping around in a slippery way from thread to thread trying to confuse matters? So you don’t like it, well that’s just fine with me.

Your concern is what? From way up there in Delaware?
Your concern is that the adults of Elk County can not speak for themselves. Wow what a put down for the Elk County citizenship.

As I said before, you were called on your rudeness way before I came on the forum. I tried to be nice to you and you just continued to be rude. I even defended you, when I first came on the forum, to no avail. I tried and I failed. I'm so sorry.


You appear to want to scare off other people by antagonizing them so you will have these threads all to yourself. Not everyone is up to your bile and rudeness.It takes more than one person to have a conversation or debate.

You are entitled to your opinion for what it’s worth, just as I’m entitled to my opinion for what it’s worth! 

As far as rudeness, I do believe a number of people had trouble with your rudeness way before I came onto the forum. So sorry for you!

By the way, West Elk has 33 graduating seniors with an amazing number of scholarships and prizes, mostly for post high school education. Congratulations to them all.

Oh by all means, me too! See we can agree on somethings.
   
You call me a liar about helping with three Elk County projects? Why?  What's it to you?   I still care, so I help when I can.

You claim lots of thing I don’t believe, sorry about that.
You claim 3 projects and fail to mention what even one of those projects are, so yeah, its hard to believe.

Is perhaps working confusion on this Ballot Issue one of those projects? Just asking?
Are they super secret projects that require a top secret clearance? Yes, I'm funning you! 

You keep posting that West Elk was built to hold 600, yet nobody but you seems to have heard Mr. Moore, or whomever it was say that.  Are you sure you didn't mishear what was said? Where are the others who heard it? It was at a public meeting, right? Where is your documentation? ;D ;D ;D ;D

You mean, you weren’t there at the meeting, oh my gosh!
Do you have documentation to the contrary? I didn’t think so and no one else has documentation to the contrary.

I’m quite certain of what I heard and I am aware of my hearing disability much more than you are. And I have made it quite clear to everyone. So don’t try to use my hearing disability as a weapon. That is just shameful.

Hang in there Ross, the issue will pass or it won't.

Oh, I think we all realize that. And some people in Howard have already received their ballots this morning.

What in the world will you do if it passes?

I will continue to live right here on my little acreage I call home, here in Elk County!
And you, what will you do? Continue to live in Delaware, huh!

It’s a great day in Elk County, Kansas, don’t you wish you were here?
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 29, 2014, 03:04:58 PM
Just to let you know. I just received my Ballot !

So it appears the Elk County Election Officer and the USPS are both dong an excellent job of delivering.

I've filled mine out and it is ready to return tomorrow.

No, it's secret Diane, I ain't telling you how I voted. LOL

I'm sorry Diane, I'm a smart ass!
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Diane Amberg on May 29, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
Ok then, so who are the others who heard what Mr. Moore said? You have made such a huge issue out of how many kids West Elk was built to hold, it would be nice to know for sure. You surely weren't alone at that meeting.
 Ross, I have not suggested that people vote one way or another. It would be nice if you were not the only source of information as some people don't trust your facts, but I'm sure they have other ways of deciding. You also have not answered the questions put to you on how much it would really cost to reopen Moline. Do you have any figures or not? There are some who want to know if that is really a viable option or are you just wishing?
 Aw, Ross has hearing loss...how brave of you to bring that up...it wasn't me. People with perfect hearing mishear things all the time, I know I do. Mine is no longer perfect either. Have you ever asked  Mr. Moore to repeat what he said to clarify it?...or are you just gathering ammunition?
As far as things you "have said before,"  Yup, ya get a bulldog grip on misinformation and repeat it forever.   Stir that pot Ross.  You all can't even seem to get together on what the tax raise would be if the issue passed. If that wasn't so sad it would be funny. Even the winners will end up being losers I'm afraid.
 The projects I'm helping with have nothing to so with the bond issue. I'm not saying what or I'll be accused of bragging. I'm just one of a number working on them.They benefit lots of people, and  not just children.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: sixdogsmom on May 29, 2014, 04:26:36 PM
Okay, I just posted this and something happened to my post. I too got my ballot today. Enclosed is an information sheet that shows the Mill levy rise that this project will cost taxpayers. The mill levy will rise 14.5 mills, not the 4 mills as reported by Wilma. Hold it! if the state kicks in then the mill levy would rise 10.85 mills. And that is not guaranteed either. So my vote will be NO!!! You gotta be kidding!  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: sixdogsmom on May 29, 2014, 04:28:58 PM
BTW, read the instructions! You must sign the back of the envelope! I suspect that your ballot will be discarded without it!  :( :(
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 29, 2014, 06:24:05 PM


Good deal sixdogsmom !
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Ross on May 29, 2014, 06:32:09 PM

I spoke with a man in Howard this morning who said he is voting no, but for other reasons than mine.

I think that is terrific! I did like his reason, unfortunately I am not at liberty to disclose what it was.

It simply means folks have been talking and I find communications is a very important factor.
Title: Re: West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond
Post by: Patriot on May 29, 2014, 09:47:09 PM
10.85 or up to 14.5 mill property tax INCREASE... USD 282 TAXPAYERS ON THE HOOK FOR $230,000+ UP TO $310,800+ PER YEAR FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS!

Based on the last Census, we are losing about 2% of our county population per year.  At that rate, who will be here to pay the bill Z& just how many kids will be here to enjoy this white elephant?

Let's buy books & teachers rather than buildings & playgrounds.

OR

Enjoy your 20 something per cent tax increase!

Do the math & use your head.  Seen the price of hamburger or the number of folks who have given up even looking for work lately?  We are in difficult times.  Let's not open ourselves for more.