Click here: YouTube - The Census Is Getting Personal
This is more of the Socialist/Communist Government that is taking control of our lives.
Yeah they are. :( Good thing i don't have to answer them.
This is somewhat misleading. In looking at the census form (ten questions) I don't see anything other than how many people were living in that residence on April 1 and who are they and what are their nationalities. Nothing about income or any other personal information that can't be acquired from other sources. The IRS already knows how much you make and how much tax you pay.
Census forms are designed to count how people there are which indicates how many representatives are needed for that area. The information is also used to determine how much money can be allocated to schools, etc.
Unless you are doing something illegal, I don't see any reason not to submit a completely filled out form. Go on the 'net and look at the form. This guy is reading more into it than it what is there.
Larryj
Quote from: larryJ on February 24, 2010, 12:29:02 PM
This is somewhat misleading. In looking at the census form (ten questions) I don't see anything other than how many people were living in that residence on April 1 and who are they and what are their nationalities. Nothing about income or any other personal information that can't be acquired from other sources. The IRS already knows how much you make and how much tax you pay.
Census forms are designed to count how people there are which indicates how many representatives are needed for that area. The information is also used to determine how much money can be allocated to schools, etc.
Unless you are doing something illegal, I don't see any reason not to submit a completely filled out form. Go on the 'net and look at the form. This guy is reading more into it than it what is there.
Larryj
Hmm the only thing required is number of people living at the residence. The rest isn't constitutionally required and therefore a invasion of privacy. As far as needing information to spread the federal dollars, not going to affect me whatsoever. As far as your not seeing any reason to not submit it completely filled out, Unless the constitution requires me to give that information, its my perogative and my right not to submit it. ITs none of their business anyway. I don't understand this mindset of answering questions just because someone wants to know. First if you want to know something from me, show me the constitutional authority for each question. :)
Seriously its noones business. Give in to this issue and the next issue will be when a fed agent stops you and asks you for your papers.
All right, you just hold out with your information, then when it affects the people around you, don't blame yourself, blame everybody else. I would like to know what it is that you are doing that you don't want anyone to find out about.
Quote from: Wilma on February 24, 2010, 01:54:34 PM
All right, you just hold out with your information, then when it affects the people around you, don't blame yourself, blame everybody else. I would like to know what it is that you are doing that you don't want anyone to find out about.
Its really simple, not to hard to understand for anyone. Life liberty and pursuit of happiness.
And you don't want anyone to know that you are alive, free and pursuing happiness?
Quote from: Wilma on February 24, 2010, 05:52:56 PM
And you don't want anyone to know that you are alive, free and pursuing happiness?
Not particularly.
Since I don't plan to live another 70 years I don't think I need to worry about any personal information I might give. I do believe the general information that we give is important and does have an impact on the area where we live. Personally I will answer the questions and return it to be counted.
As will I. Cheerfully.
As will I, just like I did 10 years ago.
As will I.
Submit what information you want. As for me, I will hold the Census Bureau to the standards and limitiations set forth in the United States Constitution.
Which doesn't cover what the country needs to know today.
Really? Like what?
Since you are too stubborn to listen,why would anybody waste their time telling you? Most of us live in more populated areas where being able to predict school needs. nursing homes needed, sewer and water needs, etc. means something. We are planning at least 10 years out to be able to have what people think they will need. Adding these questions onto the census is a much cheaper way of getting the information. Most of us don't live right off the end of our noses.
You are good, girl!!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 25, 2010, 11:36:25 AM
Since you are too stubborn to listen,why would anybody waste their time telling you? Most of us live in more populated areas where being able to predict school needs. nursing homes needed, sewer and water needs, etc. means something. We are planning at least 10 years out to be able to have what people think they will need. Adding these questions onto the census is a much cheaper way of getting the information. Most of us don't live right off the end of our noses.
The examples you cited should be provided for by the local communities and state, not the federal gov't, or did you happen to miss that part of the Constitution? Where do you get off implying that those issues don't mean anything here?
It's much cheaper to run the questions out ONCE. Since the Fed has to do the census it anyway, it just makes more sense to me. Nobody said the issues I mentioned weren't important out there. Of course they are, that's the whole point. The information is collected once by one sole source and the resident doesn't have to be bothered multiple times.
Only being collected once? Cheaper to collect the information by one source? resident doesn't have to be bothered multiple times?
You might want to do a little checking on those.
As of 2010 the "long form Cenus" is being replaced by the American Community Survey (ACS). From the Population Reference Bureau"The ACS is a nationwide, continuous survey designed to provide reliable and timely demographic, housing, social, and economic data every year. The ACS will replace the long form in 2010 and thereafter by collecting long-form-type information throughout the decade rather than only once every 10 years."
Every year?...thats funny, the Constitution only allows for the info. to be collected once every 10 years.
According to Commerce Department Inspector General Todd Zinser, the estimated cost of the census is 14.7 Billion dollars. And thats just an estimate. Hell, they went 88 million over budget just while confirming addresses.
One source...the constitution allows for "enumeration", a count of the population. Since the Legal population is issued a Social Security Number, why not just get a hold of someone at the SSA and get a count?
Every year now? well their going to have a hard time with that. I am only obligated by the Constitution to provide the number of people at this address once every 10 years. Thats all they get out of me. The rest i'll send packing.
So I expect you and Varmit will accuse the census taker of being complicit with the Gov't, therefore "guilty" like the IRS employees? If the census taker is one of your neighbors, ya gonna shoot 'em? ;D...Varmit, as far as the SS# I wondered about that myself. As far as ACS goes, I think it's considered a different thing from the Constitutionally mandated census.It apparently did morph into one idea. I'd have to look up the details. Someday I expect the whole thing will be on line. Ben Franklin would have loved that.
I was wondering about that, too, Diane. The census is every ten years. The in-between is only a survey to determine where the funds are needed most. Of course, if we all stopped paying taxes, there wouldn't be any funds to distribute, so the surveys wouldn't be needed. But, then maybe, Elk County would have to do without federal and state funds to help with road maintenance and srkruzich would have to ride his mule to town and Varmit would be out of a job.
Quote from: Wilma on February 26, 2010, 09:50:03 AM
I was wondering about that, too, Diane. The census is every ten years. The in-between is only a survey to determine where the funds are needed most. Of course, if we all stopped paying taxes, there wouldn't be any funds to distribute, so the surveys wouldn't be needed. But, then maybe, Elk County would have to do without federal and state funds to help with road maintenance and srkruzich would have to ride his mule to town and Varmit would be out of a job.
Well right now a mule couldn't get through the roads even with federal funds. And why are the feds supposed to fund roads? That is supposed to be covered by the FUEL tax, as well as the excise taxes on tires, oil, lugnuts for wheels ect ect ect.
You know the other thing that isn't being addressed is, federal funding of all these things. Where is the constitutionality of these things they fund. IF i remember my constitution right, All things not specifically designated to the federal government is the rights and responsibility of the states. And the good lord knows Kansas hasn't seen a tax it doesn't like.!
I was just talking to Al about the census business. He doesn't think SS and the other agencies share information....which is weird, something about privacy.HA! He thinks it will all be census by mail again this year with a few personal calls in populated areas. If you have a PO box only and no house drop, you'll probably be skipped.
Steve, Kansas apparently doesn't generate enough tax money on it's own to cover the things the feds help pay for. It seems also, that something, as interpreted somewhere in the Constitution, allows states to turn over some of their "rights and responsibilities" to the Fed. Gov't if they choose to. Again I'd have to look up the details. Same with the census. It may be that somewhere along the line it was decided that adding additional questions to the population census wasn't specifically forbidden by the Constitution, so it was allowed.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 26, 2010, 11:08:55 AM
I was just talking to Al about the census business. He doesn't think SS and the other agencies share information....which is weird, something about privacy.HA! He thinks it will all be census by mail again this year with a few personal calls in populated areas. If you have a PO box only and no house drop, you'll probably be skipped.
Steve, Kansas apparently doesn't generate enough tax money on it's own to cover the things the feds help pay for. It seems also, that something, as interpreted somewhere in the Constitution, allows states to turn over some of their "rights and responsibilities" to the Fed. Gov't if they choose to. Again I'd have to look up the details. Same with the census. It may be that somewhere along the line it was decided that adding additional questions to the population census wasn't specifically forbidden by the Constitution, so it was allowed.
Well first of all the money that the feds are supposed to give goes to the interstate system. That is a federal owned. It was instituted primarily to move military equipment fast. Technically we do not have the right to drive down the interstate but they allow it as nature tends to reclaim territory if not used. Makes sense to use it.
The rest of the State roads are supposed to be covered by the gas tax. I know how the state of Georgia does it not kanas or anyone else but they apply all money collected i think its like 50 cents or so a gallon to roads. That covers maint, paving, construction of new roads, ect. IF you have ever driven down georgia roads you will find the best maintained roads money can buy. And that is done off of only the gas tax. Not sure why it can't be done here. 6 million people in ga, 3 million in kansas. I don't know it should be enough to supply roads with as much gas that is used.
I can appreciate those who feel their privacy is being invaded, or, the government doesn't need to know about you. For every person that feels they don't need to be counted, means less money for their area. Money is allocated to school districts, local governments, etc. I copied and pasted some info below. Remember, if you don't do a census form, others in your area could be denied moneys for their well-being and this includes a lot of rural programs as well. Read this and think about what you want to do.
Copied from the Internet
Why Is the Census Important?
Participating in the census is in everyone's best interest, because the information on the forms is used by decision-makers to determine which communities, schools, hospitals and roads need federal funding. Filling out your census form is also the best way to make sure people like you are represented in the census.
Here are just a few examples of important uses for census numbers:
•The federal government uses census numbers to allocate over $100 billion in federal funds annually for community programs and services, such as education programs, housing and community development, health-care services for the elderly, job training and many more.
•State, local and tribal governments use census information for planning and allocating funds for new school construction, libraries and other public buildings, highway safety and public transportation systems, new roads and bridges, location of police and fire departments and many other projects.
•Community organizations use census information to develop social service programs, community action projects, senior lunch programs and child-care centers.
•Businesses use the numbers to decide where to locate factories, shopping centers, movie theaters, banks and offices -- activities that often lead to new jobs.
•The U.S. Congress uses the census totals to determine how many seats your state will have in the U.S. House of Representatives. In addition, states use the numbers to allocate seats in their law-making bodies. President Clinton will deliver the apportionment counts to the 107th Congress during the first week of its regular session in January 2000. The reapportioned Congress, which will be the 108th, will convene in January 2003. This reapportionment of the 435 seats in the House of Representatives could have important political implications.
This letter explains why Census 2000 is so important.
All that we learn about ourselves through the census will help the United States succeed over the next millennium. It's also a great way to tell our leaders who we are and what we need. If you need a closer-to-home reason for completing your census form, the Census Bureau suggests that you consider the following:
•You can help your community thrive. Does your neighborhood have a lot of traffic congestion, elderly people living alone or over-crowded schools? Census numbers can help your community work out public improvement strategies. Non-profit organizations use census numbers to estimate the number of potential volunteers in communities across the nation.
•You can make your government work for you. The hundreds of billions of dollars in federal and state funds allocated each year mean important things to you -- things such as school lunch programs, hospitals and highways! (Using census numbers to support their request for a new community center, senior citizens in one New England community successfully argued their case before county commissioners.)
•You can get help when you need it. Many 911 emergency systems are based on maps developed for the last census. Census information helps health providers predict the spread of diseases through communities with children or elderly people. And when floods, tornadoes or earthquakes hit, the census tells rescuers how many people will need their help.
•You can help American businesses. Census numbers help industry reduce financial risk and locate potential markets. This means that businesses are able to determine the marketability of potential products and come up products you want.
•You can get information you and your family need. Although individual records are held confidential for 72 years (more about that coming up!), you can request a certificate from past censuses that can be used to establish your age, residence or relationship -- information that could help you qualify for a pension, establish citizenship or obtain an inheritance. (In 2082, your great-grandchildren may want to use census information to research family history. Right now, your children may be using census information to do their homework.)
I know this is an older example, but it is still the same. Just substitute 2010 for 2000.
Larryj
Thanks Larry.
Very good, Larry. I have used an old census to try to locate an ancestor. You can also trace where your family was living by looking at the old census and sometimes where someone was born. Those old hand written census were often the source of the change in spelling a name, too.
Ben Franklin would have rolled over in his grave at the state of this country. The census has ONE purpose, enumeration for representation. Thats it and thats all. As far as allocating money, pleeease! It is not the federal gov't job! If they wouldn't take the money in the first place the people would have more to invest in their community.
Make your community thrive? Make the gov't work for you?
Name one program that the gov't is in charge of that stays on budget and actually works?
Some of you seem to think you'll get more or less money and benefits from the
Federals as a result of the census. That's what is wrong with this country - some
people are more interested in gov't payments & support than keeping this country right.
Name one program that would survive with just what Elk County citizens could put into it, including the roads. Do you really think that Elk Countians pay enough in taxes to keep up the good work. Most of the road crew would have to be laid off. The big, more efficient machinery wouldn't be affordable. Maybe we could get Pete Harvey and his horses back to drag the roads. Yes, the roads are in bad shape right now. Even in dry weather they aren't much better, but it isn't all the fault of the road crews. If they had the level surfaces, sandy soil and no rocks like Sedgwick County has, they could keep the roads in much better shape. Ask yourself if you would go out and work your fields right now. Would you plow your garden in preparation for planting right now? Just what do you think the heavy equipment can do with the mud? I think this should have been saved for the other thread, but here it is anyway.
Why don't you just admit that there is a need for federal and state funding and the only way to do that is through taxes. One central authority is more efficient than 50 smaller departments that depend only on local funding.
Maybe the road crew workers should consider going to work for the census at this time. Starting pay is $12 something an hour plus .50 a mile, and it was announced just this week the state of Kansas is still looking to hire 4,000 more people to work on it. Wonder if the county pays anywhere near that to start you as a worker?
Quote from: Wilma on February 27, 2010, 08:07:19 AM
Name one program that would survive with just what Elk County citizens could put into it, including the roads.
Probably not too many and they would have to reevaluate how they do things. And I guarantee the citizens of this county would be a lot more apt to question the actions of our commissioners, which is how it should be.
QuoteDo you really think that Elk Countians pay enough in taxes to keep up the good work. Most of the road crew would have to be laid off. The big, more efficient machinery wouldn't be affordable. Maybe we could get Pete Harvey and his horses back to drag the roads. Yes, the roads are in bad shape right now. Even in dry weather they aren't much better, but it isn't all the fault of the road crews. If they had the level surfaces, sandy soil and no rocks like Sedgwick County has, they could keep the roads in much better shape. Ask yourself if you would go out and work your fields right now. Would you plow your garden in preparation for planting right now? Just what do you think the heavy equipment can do with the mud? I think this should have been saved for the other thread, but here it is anyway.
Given teh state of our roads right now I would have to say that the big, more efficient machinery hasn't really paid off. Ask Yourself if our roads had sufficent drainage and proper ditches and crowns, would the water stay on the roads causing the problems we have now?
QuoteWhy don't you just admit that there is a need for federal and state funding and the only way to do that is through taxes. One central authority is more efficient than 50 smaller departments that depend only on local funding.
Well, for starters, I am an AMERICAN and thats not the way it is supposed to work in this country. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and thats what I will do. I believe in they ability of individual communities and states to handle their problems without a handout from the federal gov't. If we are to follow your logic then whats the point of having seperate states? Why don't we just turn over our state sovernity and bow down to One Central Authority? That may be fine with you, but I for one, have not forgotten the price that was paid for our Freedoms.
And one more thing, you still haven't answered my question, name one program that the gov't is in charge of that stays on budget and actually works?
I am not entirely sure how to respond to you, Billy. I don't remember saying anything about whether the federal programs that dole out money to people are on-budget or not. I wasn't saying anything about that. The point is, that the demographics obtained from the census determines how much federal money goes to Elk County. I could have copied and pasted tons of information about federal expenditures in Elk County, but it was too long and too boring. Do your own research----just type in federal spending in Elk County KS and see all the sites that will tell you where "your" money goes. Some of the numbers are very interesting. You can also check the Prairie Star and look at stories that detail federal spending in Elk County. One I saw was from November 2009 concerning security cameras for the schools provided by federal funds. Now, whether that happened or not, the funding was made for it. The last thing I saw was government insurance for crop failure and floods amounting to almost $3 million dollars in 2008. Interestingly enough, more people in Elk County died as a result of traffic accidents in 1981 --- wonder why that was. And, 26 percent of you can claim German ancestry! My ancestors were Scottish/English. Many of you are living in houses built before 1939. Lots of information about the county can be found, but the main idea or theme here is federal spending in the county. Check it out.
Larryj
My point is that we are no longer living in the 18th century when our Constitution was written. No matter how hard they tried, our forefathers could not ascertain what our needs in the 21st century would be. They had no way of knowing that the horse and buggy would be obsolete and that 21st century transportation would demand more in the way of trans-continental paths. They did know that the Constitution could not stand as it was, so they provided for Amendments. In light of the progress that has been made and how slow it is to get anything done at the central point, we can't wait for a Constitutional Amendment to provide the ways and means of doing what is necessary. If we needed a Constitutional Amendment for every little thing that needs to be done, we would still be in the 18th century. If you all want to go back to horse and buggy days, try it. I prefer living in the 21st century.
Larry, thats kinda what I am getting at. Do we really need money for security cameras at our schools? Crop failure and flood damage? While I sympathize with farmers that lose crops and what not, I don't think it is right to provide them with taxpayer dollars for those losses. Farming is alot like gambling, yous pays your money you takes your chances. It is not the gov't job to take care of everyone. I heard a story the other day. During the presidency of Hoover Texas farmers had a problem with drought, as a result there weren't enough seeds to plant for the next round of crops. The gov't said that they were going to allocate $10,000 to aid the farmers. Hoover said NO. He believed in the self reliance of the individual communites to take care of their own, as a result, the people of Texas ended up raising 10 times the gov't amount.
Wilma, to say that our forfathers weren't able to look to the future is ridiculous! Of course they could see that things would change. Thats why the Constitution was written the way it was. They also saw that a central gov't that wasnt' kept in check had the potential to become tryannical and oppressive, thats why they included the limitations they did.
As for the "Central Point" providing the ways and means of doing things, thats the point of the 10th admendment. It is not the responsibility of the Federal gov't to handle the issues of individual states.
If you want to go back to living under the rule of a King, give it a try. I prefer living in a free country.
Isn't that what I said? That the writers of our Constitution couldn't see what the future would hold so they gave us Amendments. You think you are free? Who pays the taxes that pay your wages, such as they are? You are only free as long as you are not trespassing on someone else's freedom. You can't drive on the left side of the road, even if you want to. You can't take the eggs out of your neighbor's hen house or sell your neighbor's cattle. We are not free because we have to live by the laws that make everything easier for eveybody. I said "everybody", not just some of us. There has to be a certain amount of order in the world even if it goes against someone's personal feelings or beliefs. There has to be a center to this order. Our forefathers provided for a central government made up of a representation from each state. Why the central government if we don't need it? Why bother with it if each state goes it's own way?
I am through. It is apparent that the people that are responding are not understanding what they are reading.
Quote from: Wilma on February 27, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
They did know that the Constitution could not stand as it was, so they provided for Amendments. In light of the progress that has been made and how slow it is to get anything done at the central point, we can't wait for a Constitutional Amendment to provide the ways and means of doing what is necessary.
Excuse me, but that was the intent and purpose of our forefathers to stop Government from just enacting whatever it feels is necessary. We cannot allow them to subvert the process. The process has worked very well for over 200 years. I and the majority of people in this country do not even consider changing the amendment process. Uh uh. The good thing about the constitution and the amendment process is that the amendment process cannot be changed period unless you dissolve the nation. The first 10 amendments plust he constitution plus the declaration were written before 1800 and anything written prior to 1800 cannot be amended, changed, altered, molested, in any form shape or fasion.
QuoteIf we needed a Constitutional Amendment for every little thing that needs to be done, we would still be in the 18th century. If you all want to go back to horse and buggy days, try it. I prefer living in the 21st century.
I'll tell ya what, I would prefer 18th century to a socialistic/fascist government.
Beside roadways are NOT the federal goverments responsibility. That is the states responsibility.. Centralized government cannot work. It will collapse upon itself. The full intent and purpose of Federal govenrment is basically a coop of states. THe states are responsible for their day to day operations. The feds only handle the coop of things that the states cannot do individually such as defense, import export overseas, immigration, ect.......
It was pointed out to me that I made an error. I should have said look up "federal funds" not "federal spending". Thanks for pointing that out for me. The site I drew my information from is:
www.city-data.com/county/Elk_County-KS.html
Billy, you said "Do we really need money for security cameras at the schools? Crop damage and flood damage?"
The question should be------Do the schools really need cameras and if so, who is going to pay for them? Benjamin Franklin mentioned nothing is more certain than death and taxes. So, if you have to pay taxes, they should go where they are needed.
Crop damage insurance? The Feds, in determining how much they are going to pay out in crop insurance failure look to the census and say (and these numbers are just an example), "Last time we (feds) checked, there were 100 farmers in Elk County, KS. So, let's set aside in our budget $10 million dollars for crop damage and flood insurance." Along comes the next census, and ten of those 100 farmers fail to fill out the census. The Feds see the new numbers and say, Wait! There are only 90 farmers now so let's deduct 10 percent off the original amount. Along comes disaster, be it drought, tornadoes, bugs, etc. and there will be less money for those farmers because 10 of them didn't bother with the census.
The point is, you are going to pay the taxes, whether you feel it is right or not, or, if you feel it is too much, you are still going to pay them. So, the census needs to be accurate in order for you to get your fair share back.
This, and every other government, since this country was formed was and is not a for-profit organization. It has had a national debt since the words national debt were invented.
Income tax began in 1861 to help pay for the Civil War. Think about this for a minute. In 1861, while there were big cities that could easily be counted and taxed, there were a lot of people living in the country that didn't pay that tax, or maybe didn't even know there was a tax. Same thing now. If the government counts us as say. 280 million people and taxes us accordingly, think about the 10 percent of those who didn't report to the census, but will still get government assistance if they are hurt, starving, homeless, or otherwise destitute whether they paid taxes or not.
I am just saying that I feel the census is important, not only for what the government does for your area, but also for the proper representation in Congress.
Too early to rant!!
Larryj
Quote from: Varmit on February 27, 2010, 10:54:23 AM
Larry, thats kinda what I am getting at. Do we really need money for security cameras at our schools?
You shouldn't.
QuoteCrop failure and flood damage?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! I lost all my bees this year due to weather as well as over half my goats. Yet i am not going to go get my government welfare check for my losses. Sorry but its just not right. Why should the taxpayer pay for my losses.
QuoteWilma, to say that our forfathers weren't able to look to the future is ridiculous! Of course they could see that things would change.
AMEN Brother Varmit. Preach it teach it son! Our forefathers were not fools. One of them was Ben franklin, one of the greatest inventors of all time. He knew that our society would change, would modernize, would go from horse and buggy to some other form of transportation and if i remember right it was in his lifetime that we developed steam engines. Shortly after he died, we developed the steam operated submarine, steam cars were invented, then diesel engine was invented 20 years after the civil war. So yeah they knew that this country would change and provided for it in our constitutinon.
QuoteThats why the Constitution was written the way it was. They also saw that a central gov't that wasnt' kept in check had the potential to become tryannical and oppressive, thats why they included the limitations they did.
As for the "Central Point" providing the ways and means of doing things, thats the point of the 10th admendment. It is not the responsibility of the Federal gov't to handle the issues of individual states.
If you want to go back to living under the rule of a King, give it a try. I prefer living in a free country.
Here here! It needs to be said again! Back when the israelites came into the promised land, they cried to God for a king. They wanted to be like every other nation around them. God said you don't need a king, take care of yourselves. The israelites again cried to God, Give us a King. God said ok, be careful what you ask for, you might get it and he gave them a KING. Along with that king he gave them a curse.
And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint [them] for himself, for his chariots, and [to be] his horsemen; and [some] shall run before his chariots.
[Treasury of Scripture Knowledge] [Concordance and Hebrew/Greek Lexicon] [list Audio, Study Tools, Commentaries]
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[Select for Copy; Double click to (de-)select all] 1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and [will set them] to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters [to be] confectionaries, and [to be] cooks, and [to be] bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, [even] the best [of them], and give [them] to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put [them] to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18
And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
It is interesting to note who got 42% of the Elk County vote in the 2008 election.
Yea Frank. But you would be hard pressed today to find one person that admits to voting for him.