Zero tolerance at its finest .. ::)
( Makes me so mad I can't even comment without going totally off the wall. >:( )
http://www.kptv.com/education/22499047/detail.html
Quote
PORTLAND, Ore. -- A Portland school has suspended an 8-year-old boy after he was found to have a 4-inch plastic toy gun built for an action figure, KPTV-TV in Portland, Ore., reported.
The third-grade student at Duniway Elementary School received a one-day suspension. Aron Anderson, the boy's father, said his son forgot he had the toy in his pocket after playing with it the previous night.
He said his son showed the small toy to a friend at school and another student reported it to staff.
"He didn't point it at anybody. He didn't act like it was real," Anderson said. "I'm really frustrated with the district that they would go that far with something so little like that."
School officials said the principal followed protocol after she determined the toy gun was a simulated weapon. According to district policy, punishment can range from suspension to expulsion.
"There's got to be some common sense that says, 'I see what it is and there's no reason to sound the alarm,'" Anderson said.
The region administrator for the school sent Anderson a letter that said the district intends to uphold the principal's decision.
Anderson hopes the school district will consider changing its policy.
"Kids have scissors at schools and pencils. That's more dangerous than that," he said.
The boy's suspension will be on his permanent school record, but Anderson said he intends to speak with the school board about the situation.
Not that surprising really, just another fine example of our public school system at work. Tell me again why we need these idiotic institutions...
So why did the other student tell on him?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 15, 2010, 01:46:50 PM
So why did the other student tell on him?
Because their indoctrinated to tell. Started with the Dare program where they got kids to rat out parents and friends if they had a joint or something like that. You see the program is designed to gain access to your home by indirectly recruiting your kids to snitch you out if your doing something like smoking a joint or something. When the kiddos report it, that gives them probable cause to get a warrant to search your home. Otherwise they couldn't possibly get a judge to sign off on that
The reason you have zero tolerance is that school officials do not want to have to make decisions. They can hide behind the zero tolerance policy no matter how stupid it is. That was one of the worst things to happen in education. Essentially it says that adults taht are supposed to be teaching our kids are too stupid to make a decision so the government must make it for them.
So if it had been a real gun, that would have been alright?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 15, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
So if it had been a real gun, that would have been alright?
That depends. I used to take my gun to school. worked hard polishing my dads shoes every week and would buy a brick of 22 rounds and take it and my gun to school. Would go out and target practice after school. Now 8 year old i would say no its not alright, but i let my kids go hunting rabbits when they were 9 or 10 by themselves.
It all depends on the maturity level of the kid.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 15, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
So if it had been a real gun, that would have been alright?
What if?? What IF wasn't in this situation.......
The point is Diane.. It wasn't a real gun..
I mean this crap makes me so mad....
CAN NO ONE IN GOV"T SCHOOLS THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX??
Pencils are used to write ransom notes and can be sharpened to the point of being a lethal weapon also...... should they take them away from kids, too? And what about forks... my god.. they cause obesity and can also be used as a weapon..
I mean....come on~~~~~~~~
This Zero Tolerance Rules is BS. It's for the ignorant who are too lazy to think...and COWARDS WHO REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for themselves.
This "Zero tolerance" which they obviously just get orgasmic over....still should mean you can still use your brain to handle a situation.
How about saying... if you saw a
real gun you should ..
1. Stop
2. Don't touch
3. Walk away
4. Tell a grown up.
Isn't that what a good educator and someone who cared about kids would do?
I'd really like to see someone with 'Standing' sue the crap out of the school systems and win!
Here is another incident about a "2" ""TOY"" gun..
QuoteAn irate Staten Island mom blasted a grade school principal Wednesday for treating her son like a pint-sized Plaxico Burress after he brought a 2-inch-long toy gun to school.
"This principal is a bully and a coward, and needs to be held accountable," said Laura Timoney, 44, after her teary fourth-grader was nearly suspended for playing with the tiny toy at lunch.
"The school should be embarrassed. This is a common-sense issue."
Patrick Timoney, 9, was terrified when he was yanked into the principal's office to discuss the teeny-weeny plastic "weapon."
"The gun was so little," the boy said. "I don't understand why the principal got so upset. I was a little nervous. They made me sign a statement."
Patrick and a friend were playing with Lego figures in the school cafeteria on Tuesday when he pulled out the faux machine gun and stuck it in the hands of his plastic police officer.
Boom! Trouble ensued, with Patrick's mom getting a phone call from Public School 52 Principal Evelyn Mastroianni saying her son had somehow gone from straight A's to the NRA.
"I was in disbelief," the still-fuming mother said. "Why didn't anyone step up with an ounce of common sense and put an end to the harassment of my child?"
Timoney said her boy loved the toy figure because her husband is a retired police officer.
The elder Patrick Timoney, a former 72nd Precinct cop, couldn't believe his son was nearly busted over something so obviously inauthentic.
"It's a 2-inch gun," he said. "She went overboard. She should have said, 'Put the toys away,' and that would have been the end of it."
After a meeting between the principal and the parents, the boy was spared any disciplinary action. City school officials said Patrick agreed to leave the "gun" at home.
"I'm never bringing a toy to school again," said Patrick, whose favorite subject is math.
Laura Timoney remained upset. Her son, a typically eager student, asked to stay home yesterday because he thought the principal was mad at him.
The mother said she expects an apology and may sue.
"The toy gun is not the issue," she said. "A lack of common sense is the issue."
Several parents at the school felt the principal overreacted, including Kim O'Rieley - whose son was playing with Patrick in the cafeteria.
Her boy's Lego man was toting a tiny ax, which the principal deemed less threatening.
"It's ridiculous," said O'Rieley, 36. "He felt so bad for his friend. They're taking things way too far ... No one is saying guns are okay.
"Come on, it's a Lego."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2010/02/04/2010-02-04_big_trouble_over_this_tiny_toy_mom_fuming_at_a_lack_of_common_sense_as_son_buste.html#ixzz0enfZAyfR
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/02/04/alg_plastic_gun.jpg)
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/02/04/amd_plastic_gun.jpg)
Wow....That sure looks like a lethal weapon to me.. ::) Anybody think that they might get this mixed up with a 'real "gun? ::)
Its embarrassing that there are people with this mentality who walk among us.. What morons..... >:(
Like i said before Teresa, they don't want to think for themselves and use common sense. The government
does it for them.
Quote from: Teresa on February 16, 2010, 02:15:42 AM
What if?? What IF wasn't in this situation.......
The point is Diane.. It wasn't a real gun..
I mean this crap makes me so mad....
CAN NO ONE IN GOV"T SCHOOLS THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX??
Pencils are used to write ransom notes and can be sharpened to the point of being a lethal weapon also...... should they take them away from kids, too? And what about forks... my god.. they cause obesity and can also be used as a weapon..
I mean....come on~~~~~~~~
This Zero Tolerance Rules is BS. It's for the ignorant who are too lazy to think...and COWARDS WHO REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for themselves.
This "Zero tolerance" which they obviously just get orgasmic over....still should mean you can still use your brain to handle a situation.
How about saying... if you saw a real gun you should ..
1. Stop
2. Don't touch
3. Walk away
4. Tell a grown up.
Isn't that what a good educator and someone who cared about kids would do?
I'd really like to see someone with 'Standing' sue the crap out of the school systems and win!
Here is another incident about a "2" ""TOY"" gun..
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/02/04/alg_plastic_gun.jpg)
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/02/04/amd_plastic_gun.jpg)
Wow....That sure looks like a lethal weapon to me.. ::) Anybody think that they might get this mixed up with a 'real "gun? ::)
Its embarrassing that there are people with this mentality who walk among us.. What morons..... >:(
But do you see my point? Steve says he did take a real gun to school. A 15 year old who holds up a bank with a toy gun that looks real is still guilty of bank robbery. You can't turn around later and say,"What's the matter, can't you take a joke?" While I agree some times poor judgement is used on both sides, shouldn't schools be able to have some control over what kids do or don't bring to school? Should I be able to prevent a child from drinking a beer at lunch? Is the parent allowed to tell me the child's lunch is none of my business? School and home are two different places! Can a kids write profanity all over the halls and have the parent defend it as free speech. Not all victimless crimes are harmless. X rated magazines for 5th graders? Can I stop it or not? Some parents would be upset and some would defend their child's "rights?" Not all parents want their kids exposed to toy guns or real guns either. Not every town is small town Kansas. I wish it were so, but it's not. People in authority tend to make decisions based on the atmosphere in which they live. Pencils and rulers and such can be used as weapons, it's true, but they also have other uses in school. What other use does a toy gun have in school? In the spring we used to have squirt gun problems. Not everybody appreciates being squirted. The kids were told to leave them at home or they would be taken by the teacher, kept and not returned until a parent came to school to collect it. Perhaps it should still be the same for toy guns, if they are obviously toys. They could be kept in the office until a parent comes to claim it. As I have said before ,some of the fakes kid get hold of are very real looking, I have one myself...used it in EMT class. If a school has a no toy gun rule, why can't they have that rule just because it's the way they want it? I had a "no permanent marker" rule in my classroom. I had my own reasons and frankly, I didn't care if anyone agreed or not....my room, my rules.
In this case ( the 2" gun")....... stupid lack of common sense... from stupid people.
I agree! It should have been quietly taken away and given to the parent.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 16, 2010, 01:59:25 PM
But do you see my point? I had my own reasons and frankly, I didn't care if anyone agreed or not....my room, my rules.
You missed the point. YOUR RULES doen't mean a hill of beans anymore. Zero tolerance takes away your ability to set rules. You have to do what the Government says to do. YOu have no opinion on it whatsoever. Frankly take the toy put in the drawer and its settled. There is no excuse or reason to suspend. The educational system is run by stupidity anymore. :(
Unfortunately a lot of what has happened in that regard has it's roots from complaints (and rightly so ) from parents whose kids have become real victims of real injuries at school. School districts get legal opinions and that's what causes tension. Each incident should be judged on it's on merit, but then there can be charges of favoritism when one child is expelled and another gets a slap on the wrist. So what do you do? There are plenty of more populated areas where problems at school do leave the school and travel back home with siblings and "cousins" out to even the score and parents who cause real trouble in the communities in which they live.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 16, 2010, 08:31:46 PM
Unfortunately a lot of what has happened in that regard has it's roots from complaints (and rightly so ) from parents whose kids have become real victims of real injuries at school. School districts get legal opinions and that's what causes tension. Each incident should be judged on it's on merit, but then there can be charges of favoritism when one child is expelled and another gets a slap on the wrist. So what do you do?
Good Lord has the world lost all common sense? What has happened to the Novel idea of setting rules and abiding by them. Favoritism? Uhhh quite frankly tell those who think its happening grow up. The real world is full of it. so deal with it. Lets put it another way. LIFE is not fair. No one guaranteed that everything will be fair and the best place in the world to prepare people for that realization is in school.
SHoot if i had young kids right now, there wouldn't be a snowballs chance in hell i would put my kid in a government school. One main reason is that if someone jumped on my kid, my kid would be ready and willing to knock the hell out of them. I had a coach in private school i went to that had the absolute best solution to solving fights. we would get into a scrap and get caught, and he would take us both into the gym and put us in a boxing ring. We would have to fight it out until one of us were down and defeated. Guess what. we would solve our differences and usualy became friends afterwards. On top of that, he got so many of us kids interested in boxing that they had to hire another coach to teach boxing.
We didn't have kids being expelled or kids going home to get their homeys to come exact revenge. Now we had some rotten ones that would go out of their way to take revenge but they would do so or make threats and they would go to jail and they were expelled from school.
Personally its simple to handle. So simple a chimpanzee can do it. School is for learning. Period. It is not a social event of the year, it is not a pop club, its only a place to go learn. IF you don't want to learn, then go away. Send them down the road packing. An education is not an entitlement. You have to earn it. I posted a comment a few days ago about this. No one has earned the right for an education. The only reason you, i, or anyone else have the opportunity to learn is because of those men and women in the military that have earned that opportunity for us.
So my words to any child, shut up, sit down, and get busy!
I don't think I've ever seen a boxing ring in an elementary school. Shoot, they can't even play dodge ball any more.
What would you do with the parents that won't believe that their little darling is anything but perfect? The parents don't back up the teacher anymore. They think they have to support their little darling and the little darling knows it, so he goes on doing everything and anything except sit down, shut up and learn.
Thank goodness I did have a few parents who were on my side as a teacher, but too many idolized their kids and just knew they would never do what they were being accused of. Many years ago one of my friends taught 8th grade at a middle school 30 min. away from here. One spring day s he was returning her lunch tray to the cafeteria when one of the 8th grade boys came peeling around a corner at high speed and knocked her down, tray and dishes flying everywhere. He didn't even slow down. He ran on down the hall and around another corner. She broke her ankle and was severely bruised. The parents were called, came in angry and demanded she produce a witness to prove it was their son. The hall was otherwise empty so there was no witness.The principal sided with the parents! No witness, no punishment.
Okay, here is my two cents worth on the subject. Number one, legos in the cafeteria? Come on, this is not education; and it is obvious that the boys were used to playing legos there else they would not arm their 'men' with toy guns and hatchets. Who was supervising these kids anyway? Parents allowing toys to go to school? Why do they think kids are going to school? The school overreacted, the parents overreacted, and nobody accepted any responsibility. A great lesson could be learned here, but all involved dropped the ball. There is a good reason that boxing has all but been abandoned, and that is brain damage. Just look at Mohammed Ali for an object lesson. That bright man, full of poetry and skill, reduced to barely a functioning human being. :P
Quote from: sixdogsmom on February 17, 2010, 01:20:06 PM
There is a good reason that boxing has all but been abandoned, and that is brain damage. Just look at Mohammed Ali for an object lesson. That bright man, full of poetry and skill, reduced to barely a functioning human being. :P
HMMM, was OBama a boxer?????
Good one elk@kc. I bet Mamma Obama has boxed them big ears more than once
Quote from: Wilma on February 17, 2010, 11:05:18 AM
What would you do with the parents that won't believe that their little darling is anything but perfect? The parents don't back up the teacher anymore. They think they have to support their little darling and the little darling knows it, so he goes on doing everything and anything except sit down, shut up and learn.
You know Your right. The problem is those idiots that bring these minions into the world and let them loose on the world without proper upbringing. But to those parents that think their darling can do no wrong, make them sign a contract before school starts stating their darling will abide by all the set rules one of them being that they shut up sit down and get busy learning.
Quote from: sixdogsmom on February 17, 2010, 01:20:06 PM
There is a good reason that boxing has all but been abandoned, and that is brain damage. Just look at Mohammed Ali for an object lesson. That bright man, full of poetry and skill, reduced to barely a functioning human being. :P
Boy that was a massive leap into the illogical. first of all mohammed ali was going against some tough adults. Kids don't hit that hard in boxing. Secondly boxing teaches a host of things besides pummelling your opponent. The skill and grace it requires to be able to box is a wonderful gift. Also when you have the kids that usually get beat up in school because their the weaker ones, they can take boxing and the bullies don't stand a chance against them. one two and their out.
You know i don't even know if they physical ed anymore. I would love to see tai kwon do taught in that class. Its the most effective physical education one can get. Mind body and soul. Kids gain so much from that. confidence, agility, physical health, AKA no fat kids, plus it stops the bully aspect.
Boxing did the same thing.
Quote from: jarhead on February 17, 2010, 03:56:18 PM
Good one elk@kc. I bet Mamma Obama has boxed them big ears more than once
(http://www.leconcombre.com/alfred/img2/alfred_e_neuman_thumb.jpg)
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Obama+Marks+One+Year+Anniversary+Recovery+p4h0QzWx82hm.jpg)
Hmm, Perhaps less time with the boxing ring and more time with the spelling book.
Quote from: srkruzich on February 18, 2010, 09:12:45 AM
------------- confidence, agility, physical health, AKA no fat kids, plus it stops the bully aspect.
Ballet lessons will do the same thing.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on February 18, 2010, 01:29:01 PM
Hmm, Perhaps less time with the boxing ring and more time with the spelling book.
I'm too tired to worry about my spelling. Most of the time its not spelling but my dang keyboard keys stick and won't work. or i get a superimpose letters. :)
But at any rate, I can spell fine, just gets wiggy when i am tired. You ought to see me when i am on some of my meds! Woo hoo i think i am typing up a storm but folks probably say what the heck.....
Quote from: srkruzich on February 16, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
Personally its simple to handle. So simple a chimpanzee can do it. School is for learning. Period. It is not a social event of the year, it is not a pop club, its only a place to go learn. IF you don't want to learn, then go away. Send them down the road packing. An education is not an entitlement. You have to earn it. I posted a comment a few days ago about this. No one has earned the right for an education. The only reason you, i, or anyone else have the opportunity to learn is because of those men and women in the military that have earned that opportunity for us.
So my words to any child, shut up, sit down, and get busy!
Kinda hard to "go away" when education is made mandatory by law. You don't earn something that is forced upon you. Even homeschoolers have to put up with this to an extent in that they have to include certain subjects and meet a gov't set standard.
As for parents siding with the teachers...that depends. Who is to say that the teacher isn't lying. I have had expirence with this both as a student and as a parent. Trusting someone just because of their job position or title isn't something I do.
As for Tae Kwon Do...naah, Hapkido..now thats a diffrent story.
Varmit, you are undoubtedly the biggest skeptic on the planet. :-\
No.. there's a lot of us out there.. we just aren't as verbal about it.. :)
I step back lots of times and figure I run my mouth enough.. I'll let someone else step up to bat. ;)