I was in Howard today and noticed a flyer stating that the Howard city council was considering banning the owning of Pit Bulls, Dobermans, and Rottweilers, citing that they were a "uniquely dangerous dogs". I was wondering where they obtained their information on these dog breeds?
Wow! I wasn't aware that 'uniquely dangerous dogs' had become a problem in Howard. Learn something new every day.
Billy, interesting that you bring that up. My son in Tyler Texas was telling me last night that they wee having problems with Pit Bulls on the loose. Below is a Tyler nespaper artice on it.
Officials Respond To Report Of Loose, Aggressive Pit Bulls
From Tyler Paper & CBS19 Reports
Officials were warning residents in a neighborhood on Wednesday to watch out for dogs that had attacked at least two dogs Wednesday.
Tyler Animal Control Director Shawn Markmann said residents in the area of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Tenneha reported that at least three dogs, described as pit bulls, were roaming together and acting aggressively.
The dogs attacked and killed one dog and mauled another, Markmann said.
During one of the attacks, an officer fired and killed the attacking dog, he said.
Howard Davis, who lives in the 2200 block of Tenneha Avenue said a small dog was mauled to death on his porch. He said a neighbor who owned the dog that was killed came and retrieved the animal.
Davis said he came home shortly after the attack to the horrible sight.
Clara Johnson, who lives near Davis, said she had just stepped outside with her white poodle about 4 p.m. Wednesday when a police officer drove by and warned her.
"He said to get back in the house with your dog," she said.
Ms. Johnson said she had let her dog out because it came to their glass front door and started barking.
"I thought he had to go to the bathroom, but I think he saw the dogs," she said.
Ms. Johnson said she had never encountered an aggressive dog in the neighborhood but was going to make sure that she did not let her poodle out alone for a while.
KYTX CBS19's Amanda Kost contributed to this report.
I might have something to say about this. I've owned Pit Bulls for close to 20 years now and they're not like people say they are. It's a matter of responsible ownership versus irresponsible owners and people that don't take the time to train their dogs. But honestly, I've yet to ever see a Pit Bull inside the Howard city limits??? So, why do they all of a sudden need laws on them? And I've yet to hear of anyone being attacked by one. Is the city council just bored or what? Boy, I think I find more and more reasons to leave Elk county every day. :P
I don't know all the info. There was a Pitbull that had attacked a man and a women in Howard about a month ago. The man was put in the hospital. That is just what I heard.
Thats also what I heard. But I have seen Sarah's dogs and they are like little puppies. And I agree with her on it depends how the dogs cared for and raised. Just like children! I know a person who has a rot and the dog is just a wonderful dog. I also know a person who owns a doberman, and that dog is just as friendly as can be! Just not sure what they are looking to do with the situation. It's like wood stoves awhile back, didn't they work on banning them fromt he city limits, or something like that?
Quote from: angtown3 on November 12, 2009, 02:38:28 PM
Thats also what I heard. But I have seen Sarah's dogs and they are like little puppies. And I agree with her on it depends how the dogs cared for and raised. Just like children! I know a person who has a rot and the dog is just a wonderful dog. I also know a person who owns a doberman, and that dog is just as friendly as can be! Just not sure what they are looking to do with the situation. It's like wood stoves awhile back, didn't they work on banning them fromt he city limits, or something like that?
Wood stoves? Sheesh
Before the city council even considers such a measure they better take into consideration everything's that's involved, like first, those the law would hurt. The law abiding citizens that take care of their dogs and that love their dogs. Second, who out here is qualified to tell exactly what is and isn't a Pit Bull? What about Staffs and Bull Staffs? What about mixes? What about the ones that look like Pits that aren't? Whose going to decide what is and isn't? Why not try enforcing aggressive dog laws on an individual basis first? I'm sure the city has laws in place for dealing with aggressive dogs. What about enforcing leash laws? These laws don't stop the problem as much as they create other problems and needed man power to enforce laws like this.
There is very much anxiety over dogs in Howard. One might refer to it as doggy hysteria.
random question, billy do you have a 3 legged dog?
I have a first-hand reply to this. Since I live just two blocks from the dog that bit their neighbors, I am sure that it is the same pitbull I seen just a couple weeks before that in MY yard. It was with another large dog that appears to be a mixed breed of some sort. They both eye-balled me when I started out of my house and I just went back in and called the sheriff's office. By the time they got here the dogs had gone on south. Howard does have a leash law and why won't people obey. Either keep them tied up or penned up. I have a house dog that stays in a fenced yard when she's out or on a leash if I take her for a walk, but I am tired of cleaning up after other dogs in my yard. Keep them at home and restrained and there won't be the problem. I have everything from tiny dogs to humongous dogs running loose thru my yard, and they are not the responsibility of the law officers to take care of. It is the responsiblity of the owners, whether they are vicious or puppy dog tame.
That is true Flo. I don't seem to have a problem around here at the daycare, but have heard of people having problems with them.
Quote from: flo on November 12, 2009, 04:44:54 PM
I have a first-hand reply to this. Since I live just two blocks from the dog that bit their neighbors, I am sure that it is the same pitbull I seen just a couple weeks before that in MY yard. It was with another large dog that appears to be a mixed breed of some sort. They both eye-balled me when I started out of my house and I just went back in and called the sheriff's office. By the time they got here the dogs had gone on south. Howard does have a leash law and why won't people obey. Either keep them tied up or penned up. I have a house dog that stays in a fenced yard when she's out or on a leash if I take her for a walk, but I am tired of cleaning up after other dogs in my yard. Keep them at home and restrained and there won't be the problem. I have everything from tiny dogs to humongous dogs running loose thru my yard, and they are not the responsibility of the law officers to take care of. It is the responsiblity of the owners, whether they are vicious or puppy dog tame.
Actually Flo I totally agree with you. Irresponsible owners cause a lot of trouble, but is it fair to the law abiding citizens to punish everyone equally? You say the city already has leash laws...good!! Enforce them!! You don't put more laws on the books when you're not even keeping up with the ones you've got, especially one as wide sweeping as this one as it's basically "racial profiling" for dogs saying that just because it's a particular breed, then it's no good.
We live way out, but I do keep our dogs penned up. I don't like them running loose for fear of them getting hit by a car or shot or whatever. I love my dogs. They're like my babies. Once in awhile they do get out and I am usually hot on their heels bringing them back and when we're not home to supervise them they all go in the house in crates. Responsible owners make sure their dogs do not become a nuisance to other people and it's very irresponsible to own a dog, especially a Pit Bull, that you know has a propensity to human aggression and it's very irresponsible to let it run loose. This breed faces enough challenges without adding to it..
But I've fought for this breed for 20 years, been to quite a few city meetings on this breed, will fight to show people their qualities they have when owned and trained right and I will continue to do so.
There are a lot of alternatives to BSL (breed specific legislation). First of all, since the city already has laws on the books regarding dogs running loose and so these need to be enforced. If people's dogs are properly restrained, then there should be no bites. That means hefty fines for multiple offenders with loose dogs. Secondly, I'm sure the city already has laws in place regarding vicious dogs. Most cities do. And if they don't, then get them and ENFORCE them. Dogs don't reason nor are they the logical thinking part. If you don't punish the people, but take away their dog, they'll go get another dog and be just as irresponsible with it.
Next, maybe the city ought to think about letting volunteers hold puppy socialization classes and obedience classes and also, give a few classes on avoiding dog bites. These classes are especially good for children. I'm sure there's people that would teach these classes voluntarily. I know I would.
You said it, Flo. Do you know who these dogs belong to? If you do, you should tell the sheriff's department or the city, then let them take it from there. Also, report the dogs everytime you see them. Take a picture of them in your backyard so it can't be said that they weren't loose.
This is from my husband.....he says he locates in Howard and he's yet to see a dog that isn't friendly and it surprises him and he says he's been in a lot of backyards and he has seen some Pit Bulls in Howard, but that they're all real friendly dogs.
I'm not saying I'm for any ordinance, but when we lived in Howard, dogs would run around quite often. I didn't know Howard even had a leash law; I just assumed they didn't by the amound of dogs running wild around town. Also, when I would walk around town, there were certain places I avoided because of the viciousness of their dogs... yes, they were in the yard, but some places I thought they'd break through the fence to get to me! But breed-specific... most of the nastiest dogs I saw like that were actually the little dogs!
Remember; this is a CITY ordinance. Most cities have ordinanaces against vicious dogs, or even breed specific. Wichita has recently passed a law and they have to be micro-chipped and spayed/neutered.
I may need to eat my words about a leash law. I was TOLD there was one. Guess I should have asked when I bought Lucy's tag, but wasn't concerned about it because knew she would not be allowed to run loose, which brings another question to mind. Some of these at-large dogs do not have collars and therefore are showing no city tag. Maybe the owner, if they bought one, has them hanging on the wall at home, but I thought they were supposed to be on the dog.
Oh yes, Howard has a leash law. The city police is also the animal control officer. We do have a dog pound and every once in a while you will see a flyer showing a dog that is there that needs a good home. Doesn't it all come back down to personal responsibility. If you can't take care of an animal, don't get one.
Quote from: flo on November 12, 2009, 07:38:08 PM
I may need to eat my words about a leash law. I was TOLD there was one. Guess I should have asked when I bought Lucy's tag, but wasn't concerned about it because knew she would not be allowed to run loose, which brings another question to mind. Some of these at-large dogs do not have collars and therefore are showing no city tag. Maybe the owner, if they bought one, has them hanging on the wall at home, but I thought they were supposed to be on the dog.
Tags can be lost easily as well as collars. The collars are supposed to be 3 fingers tight that is you should be able to slip 3 fingers comfortably between collar and neck. This is to ensure that you get a tight enough collar to use for walking on a leash as well as keep it on them during normal activities but allow for a means of escape from the collar if they happen to become snared by something out there like a fence or something.
Frankly, I am not a fan of Pits or Dobermans, not because they are dangerous or anything, I was just wondering were the Council got their info. If they are going to ban so called dangerous dogs then they need to get their facts straight and include breeds like Dalmations, Chow Chows, Huskies, Malamutes, Schnausers, and Dashounds. Most dog bites come from little dogs but since the damage isn't that bad most go unreported. The problem is not the dog but the dog owner. As for cleaning up after others dogs, you might try talking to the owner before you call the cops. Afterall, thats what neighbors do. I think that breed specific laws are just a product of paranoia caused by mis-information.
And no Anmar, I don't own a three legged dog.
ahh, last time i was in grenola, a 3 legged dog was running after one of my brothers, thought it may have been a conservative dog =p
Quote from: Anmar on November 12, 2009, 08:16:46 PM
ahh, last time i was in grenola, a 3 legged dog was running after one of my brothers, thought it may have been a conservative dog =p
Sadly yes that one lost a leg due to obama's spread the wealth policies. Obama determined that he didn't need that 4th leg so he had to give it up for transplant to a 2 legged cat.
Good one Steve :)
lol, nice
Quote from: Sarah on November 12, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
Wood stoves? Sheesh
The city of Howard did pass a no wood stove ordinance. It is for the two block area around the business district. It only affects business owners and only if the the structure is adjoining to another. If you share a common wall you can't have a wood stove. It was based on a similar set of rules set up by Fort Scott, Parsons, Iola, and other Kansas municipalities that have lost downtown businesses to wood heat fires. It has no bearing on residences.
Quote from: ADP on November 12, 2009, 10:35:31 PM
The city of Howard did pass a no wood stove ordinance. It is for the two block area around the business district. It only affects business owners and only if the the structure is adjoining to another. If you share a common wall you can't have a wood stove. It was based on a similar set of rules set up by Fort Scott, Parsons, Iola, and other Kansas municipalities that have lost downtown businesses to wood heat fires. It has no bearing on residences.
Ahh, thanks for the info. I was curious about the people that heat only with wood.
I thought I heard that Moline does not allow Pitbull in city limits. Does anyone know if that is true?
From "DogBites.org"
In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans and accounted for 59% of all fatal attacks. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 73% of these deaths. | More »
If outlawing Pit Bulls will save one child from the horror of a dog attack, then they should be declared illegal.
Quote from: frawin on November 13, 2009, 09:09:11 AM
From "DogBites.org"
In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans and accounted for 59% of all fatal attacks. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 73% of these deaths. | More »
If outlawing Pit Bulls will save one child from the horror of a dog attack, then they should be declared illegal.
And out of those over HALF of those were from the FAMILY dog because a very young child was left unattended with a dog. And out of those, how many were because people aren't educated about teaching their children about dog safety?
You know, I'll bet you're the same kind of person that is all for outlawing guns too if it will save but one child. How many children are killed from gun shot wounds every year? How many children are killed in car accidents every year? Shall we outlaw cars too? How many children drown in family pools every year? Hmm....maybe we should outlaw those too. Ooops, how many children are seriously hurt or killed in horseback riding accidents every year? Geez, maybe we should make it illegal for people to ride horses too. Let's see what else we can outlaw. Maybe we should outlaw abortion since that kills 1,000's of little innocent children every single year.
Well, by that logic, then we should outlaw bathtubs and swimming pools. In 2003, 86 children drowned in bathtubs and 285 children drowned in pools.
Also, from DogBite.org...
-Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner most often is responsible -- not the breed, and not the dog.
-An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
-Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be likely to bite. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
Hence, it is not the breed, it is the owner, HOLD THEM RESPONSIBLE
it was stated that I should talk to the dog owner before calling the police. Just how do you propose I do this if I have no idea who the dog belongs to or where it belongs. These are not "neighborhood" dogs. On my block there are two that I have knowledge of. Mine and a yellow lab at the south end of the block and it is kept restrained.
Quote from: flo on November 13, 2009, 11:37:04 AM
it was stated that I should talk to the dog owner before calling the police. Just how do you propose I do this if I have no idea who the dog belongs to or where it belongs. These are not "neighborhood" dogs. On my block there are two that I have knowledge of. Mine and a yellow lab at the south end of the block and it is kept restrained.
You might ask around. Someone else might know who it belongs to. The police also might know who the dog belongs to.
Quote from: Varmit on November 13, 2009, 09:47:46 AM
Well, by that logic, then we should outlaw bathtubs and swimming pools. In 2003, 86 children drowned in bathtubs and 285 children drowned in pools.
Also, from DogBite.org...
-Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner most often is responsible -- not the breed, and not the dog.
-An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
-Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be likely to bite. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
Hence, it is not the breed, it is the owner, HOLD THEM RESPONSIBLE
Amen what a NOVEL IDEA! :)
Quote from: frawin on November 13, 2009, 09:09:11 AM
From "DogBites.org"
In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans and accounted for 59% of all fatal attacks. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 73% of these deaths. | More »
If outlawing Pit Bulls will save one child from the horror of a dog attack, then they should be declared illegal.
Hell frank, why don't we outlaw kids. 1400 deaths last year were attributed to bullying. So if we outlaw kids, then we solve the bullying problem. Heck we even solve the population control issue as well as the current school budget issue!
According to that logic, adult human beings should be outlawed...no more kids, no more bad choices, no more excuses, no more problems.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 13, 2009, 12:47:51 PM
According to that logic, adult human beings should be outlawed...no more kids, no more bad choices, no more excuses, no more problems.
Well, that's where holding people ACCOUNTABLE for their actions comes in handy.
The county has a law concerning pit bulls, rottweilers and dobermans. It sets forth requirements for fencing and special collars that have to be on the dogs. I would check it out if you own any of these breeds and live outside the corporate limits of a city. There is also a county law banning the ownership of certain exotic pets.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 13, 2009, 12:47:51 PM
According to that logic, adult human beings should be outlawed...no more kids, no more bad choices, no more excuses, no more problems.
You know that makes about as much sense as my suggestion of outlawing kids or franks suggestion of outlawing dogs for the sake of the kid. That line is so damn wore out its annoying. It's used to slam people over the head year after year to push through anything like objectional legisilation to School bonds to dog elimination.
The problem with our kids today is that their a bunch of pansies and their parents make em that way. Everyone wants to wrap em up in bubble wrap for fear of them getting hurt. You know what, I survived the 60's and 70's. We never had seatbelts, and we stood up on the front bench seat while ma was driving down the road. The only car seat we knew about was the bench seat in the front and back that we laid down on when we were tired. We didn't have seat belts either. Only the wide swinging arm of mama when she hit the brakes. Now days we put rubber corner gards on play equipment and it has to be government inspected to make sure it won't cause a splinter in their hand traumatizing them so badly they need to bring in grief councillors. Helmets for riding bikes? Shoot, you gotta be kidding. Never had them and my kids never had them. None of us in my ENTIRE FAMILY including cousins, second cousins, mothers fathers ect ever needed a helmet for bike riding.
Shoot i'll bet folks don't even let their kids climb a tree these days. Ohhh poooor johnny might fall and break a bone. Shoot we wore a broken bone as a badge of honor and we usually could claim the right of having climed the highest in the tallest trees before falling.
Most kids today don't even have a clue as to how to have fun if htey dont' have their xbox, or ipod, or playstation or whatever they use now days to play video games and getting kids off their ass from in front of a tv takes a act of God and a miracle of epic proportions like parting the red sea.
Yeah kids are downright spoiled rotten these days. Have it far too easy in life. LOL I saw on the kake board where some kid said they were so stressed. ROTFLMBO stressed???? Ok. IF the say so.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 13, 2009, 12:47:51 PM
According to that logic, adult human beings should be outlawed...no more kids, no more bad choices, no more excuses, no more problems.
BINGO! Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if it weren't for humandoings? Oh... and dogs, of course. ;D
Steve I was just being sarcastic! You do know its adults, the parents that have insisted on ramping up all the safety rules.The kids sure didn't do it. So if ya eliminate adults, no more problems, right? Lawyers have pushed for years to have adults make demands on adult accountability...Lawsuits make tons of money. It all started about the same time years ago when lawyers were allowed to advertise again. Then people took off on their own. You couldn't accept that sometimes stuff just happens, somebody has to be accountable. Ok, so then enters the law, the police, the lawyers, the Gov't and the wheel turns once more. We've done it to ourselves.There are so many suits now that the courts don't have time for real problems, they are tied up with junk. As far as kids getting off theri duffs and doing something....who lets them veg out and have all that stuff.... adults! They need to start parenting again and not let those kids run the house. Heck, I know people who are afraid of their own kids! As far as seat belts I have to disagree. I rode the ambulance too long and saw to many cradle cap fractures and gutter burned kids with serious injuries who fell out of moving cars. We just never see those any more, thanks to seat belts.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 13, 2009, 01:28:24 PM
Steve I was just being sarcastic!
LOL i was too.
QuoteYou do know its adults, the parents that have insisted on ramping up all the safety rules.The kids sure didn't do it. So if ya eliminate adults, no more problems, right?
Oh i know that. I don't blame kids for any of it.
QuoteLawyers have pushed for years to have adults make demands on adult accountability...Lawsuits make tons of money. It all started about the same time years ago when lawyers were allowed to advertise again. Then people took off on their own. You couldn't accept that sometimes stuff just happens, somebody has to be accountable. Ok, so then enters the law, the police, the lawyers, the Gov't and the wheel turns once more. We've done it to ourselves.There are so many suits now that the courts don't have time for real problems, they are tied up with junk.
Yeah i know their a wart on the ass of society.
QuoteAs far as kids getting off theri duffs and doing something....who lets them veg out and have all that stuff.... adults! They need to start parenting again and not let those kids run the house. Heck, I know people who are afraid of their own kids! As far as seat belts I have to disagree. I rode the ambulance too long and saw to many cradle cap fractures and gutter burned kids with serious injuries who fell out of moving cars. We just never see those any more, thanks to seat belts.
Hey i fell out of the car when i was 2. Ole buick. I got in the car and pulled the door and i think my dad just spaced out that one time and when he took off he turned left and off i bounced out of the car on the food giant parking lot. didn't get hurt at all. LOL Scared the * out of him though.
I'm very glad you were not hurt. Now imagine the same thing at 55-75, miles an hour. :'(
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 13, 2009, 02:06:25 PM
I'm very glad you were not hurt. Now imagine the same thing at 55-75, miles an hour. :'(
You know, stuff happens. We can't dip em in waterglass and sit them in bubblewrap and foam and keep them from all the possible dangers in the world. It is out of hand. Ok carseats can help but aren't a guarantee. Same thing with seat belts. I still to this day won't wear one because of seeing too many cars involved in headons with steering wheel shafts shoved through the seats where it went through the owners. At least with the first style of seatbelts, you could avoid something like that but with these shoulder straps and trussing up that it does, it pins you in.
Uhmm FIghting is another thing that is out of hand. If two kids get into a fight at school they expell them. In schools of yonder years ago, if ya got into a fight, they took ya to the coach and put you in the boxing ring with each other and strapped on the gloves. You worked out your aggression supervised as well as safely. MOST KIDS that fought that way ended up being best friends. Go figure huh. Today, by forcing suppression of their natural agression, it causes more violent tendacies to surface.
You don't like the way I dealt with my kids i know but when boys become teens, they tend to overstep their limits and get into their pa's face and pa has to set them straight. Usually cold cocking them one time does the job. Its a dominance issue. worked for granpa, worked for dad, worked for me and will work for my son. Turned out that all of us turned out to be really good folks. In all cases when your teen is not listening, grandpa had a solution that worked every time. You see grandpa had this mule. That mule was as contrary as any mule could get. One day that ole mule just sat down while grandpa was plowing and wouldn't get up. Couldn't bribe it, couldn't sweettalk that mule, yelling didn't work, begging didn't work. SOoo grandpa got the brake handle on the hay wagon, and walked up to that ole mule and took a full swing and landed it right between the mules eyes. That mule was crosseyed for a week i figure. But after that mule got up and staggered around for a minute, he got back to work pulling that plow. Grandpa told me that he just had to get his attention, then he could give direction to that mule
I've heard that story forever. And there are a few people that need it, too.
And back to the topic; I have had experience with Pit Bulls, and as breeders will often tell you, there are traits that certain dogs carry. Agressiveness is as inherited as are brown spots, or eye color, and responsible breeders try to breed that trait out of registered breeds. The problem with large breed dogs such as Pit Bull, and Rottweilers is that should they bite, they can do great damage. I don't think that I have ever heard of a child, person or another animal being mauled to death by a Chihuahua, not because they don't have the attitude, but their equipment is lacking. Pit Bulls do serious damage when they attack, and unfortunately they are the breed of dog many irresponsible people choose. We used to have a neighbor in Wichita who had two Pit Bulls; one was a real sweetie, the other was vicous and would kill any animal that got near. His demise came about when he got loose one day and killed two neighborhood dogs; his owner did the right thing by taking him for a ride from which he could not return. Those two dogs killed in my back yard could have been a small child or an elderly person walking down the street. Neither would have been able to defend themselves. And two families lost their pets that day, even though they should not have been running loose either. I love dogs, cats, and all pets, (see my name). But they should never be able to be inflicted on others, and I do agree that we have a dog leash law as well as a ban on Pit Bulls in Moline.
The United States Marines are banning Pit Bulls, Rotweilers and "Wolf Like dogs from all Marine bases worldwide.
Lyon Co. was considering the same ban a few years ago. The problems that they ran into was mix breeds. What percentage of the dog had to be a pit in order to be banned. They were also including chows in their ban. The reason that these dogs are deemed "vicious" is because they have a locking jaw. They don't physically have the power to release once they bite until their jaw muscles relax. I am a firm believer that any animal can be made to be vicious. I could turn my spoiled snauzer into an attack dog if I wanted to. I don't think banning a certain breed is going to solve the problems. The only thing that is going to solve the problem of "vicious" animals is teaching owners to be responsible and train their animals properly
Quote from: Cheyenne on November 13, 2009, 07:14:27 PM
Lyon Co. was considering the same ban a few years ago. The problems that they ran into was mix breeds. What percentage of the dog had to be a pit in order to be banned. They were also including chows in their ban. The reason that these dogs are deemed "vicious" is because they have a locking jaw. They don't physically have the power to release once they bite until their jaw muscles relax. I am a firm believer that any animal can be made to be vicious. I could turn my spoiled snauzer into an attack dog if I wanted to. I don't think banning a certain breed is going to solve the problems. The only thing that is going to solve the problem of "vicious" animals is teaching owners to be responsible and train their animals properly
Actually, that is a myth. Pit Bulls, or any other breed, do not have "locking" jaws. There has never been any scientific evidence to suggest that any dog is able to "lock" their jaws. They are tenacious and are often trained not to let go. But they do not "lock" their jaws.
It is also a misunderstanding that a dog that attacks another dog will then attack people. There is a big difference between animal aggression in dogs and people aggression. Pit Bulls have been bred for centuries to be aggressive toward other dogs, but all people aggressive Pit Bulls were always frowned upon and bred against. The dogs, in the pit, had to be able to be handled by their handlers, the ring referees and bystanders and not show any aggression towards people. The problem is is that you have a ton of people breeding Pit Bulls with terrible traits and then encouraging bad behaviour in their dogs.
Once again it comes down to irresponsible people and once again it comes down to if you outlaw that breed, they will simply find another breed until pretty soon you're having to outlaw dogs completely. Rather teach people to be responsible and accountable for their actions.
So, exactly how do you do that? :-\
Quote from: sixdogsmom on November 13, 2009, 06:38:52 PM
I don't think that I have ever heard of a child, person or another animal being mauled to death by a Chihuahua, not because they don't have the attitude, but their equipment is lacking.
Okay, so maybe its not a Chihuahua, but along the same lines....
-Although pit bull mixes and Rottweillers are most likely to kill and seriously maim, fatal attacks since 1975 have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds.
The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictibility is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)
Quote from: sixdogsmom on November 13, 2009, 08:06:40 PM
So, exactly how do you do that? :-\
The same way we teach people to be responsible with their firearms and we hold those that abuse it accountable. We don't outlaw guns. We teach people. We do our best to keep them out of the hands of those that are irresponsible and we keep people that do own them informed on how to be responsible owners. Same thing goes for dogs.
I've owned over 8 Pit Bulls in my 20 years that I've been working with this breed. I've yet to ever have one of my dogs attack a person or ever kill someone else's pet or bite someone. I do it through training. I train my dogs. I socialize my dogs. They're used to a lot of different dogs and lots of different people and children and I'm not irresponsible with them letting them run wild. I train them to be "dog tolerant" and I teach them to obey me and all of my dogs are submissive to me, to my husband and to my kids. We do not keep them on chains or keep them separated and yet they get along. The neighbour kids come down all the time and we never have any problems. In fact, our Pyrenees we had was far more unpredictable than our Pits have been.
There are many breeders of Pits out there that are doing their best to breed the dog as far away from their dog aggressive days as possible. They're working hard to put the breed in a different light. They're working to get their Canine Good Citizen certificates, they're getting them certified as therapy dogs, using them as tracking dogs and working with police as drug dogs. They're smart and they're willing to work hard and are an asset in many areas.
If the street toughs in Wilmington were like you there would be no problem.Those hooligans have trained their dogs to attack and when they get out they do, no matter who is around. They also sic the dogs on the police, the neighbors, the local kids, whoever they are mad at at the moment and they always seem to be mad at somebody. I know its not the dog's fault, but the dog pays the price, death, not to mention whomever got attacked.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 12:41:09 PM
If the street toughs in Wilmington were like you there would be no problem.Those hooligans have trained their dogs to attack and when they get out they do, no matter who is around. They also sic the dogs on the police, the neighbors, the local kids, whoever they are mad at at the moment and they always seem to be mad at somebody. I know its not the dog's fault, but the dog pays the price, death, not to mention whomever got attacked.
I know and it's sad to say the least, but the problem with those wide sweeping bans are they really don't punish the wrong doers since they really had no attachment to the dogs anyway and what ends up happening is they just get another breed of dog that's just as dangerous and train it to be mean. The ones that pay the price are the ones that work so hard with their dogs, love their dogs dearly and yet are caught up in these laws when they did nothing to deserve it. :(
Shoot, I know I get sooo weary of fighting people's ideas on what they think the breed is like when I have 20 years experience behind me that tells me different. I don't doubt at all that there are horrible dogs out there just like I don't doubt there are horrible people out there, but it seems that just because someone knew of one or two or three, they think they're all that way.
Wilmington heard all the good stories too, and came to a registration compromise The dogs have to be licensed as all dogs are, but the bulls have to be registered so the address can be known to police. There have been some bites since that time and police have had to shoot several, mostly for attacking leashed or secured dogs, but overall it is better. We have license and leash laws here in Newark and bites are very rare.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 03:00:44 PM
Wilmington heard all the good stories too,nd came to a registration compromise The dogs have to be licensed as all dogs are, but the bulls have to be registered so the address can be known to police. There have been some bites since that time and police have had to shoot several, mostly for attacking leashed or secured dogs, but overall it is better. We have license and leash laws here in Newark and bites are very rare.
Just plain leash laws are just as effective if people would obey them. The problem with Pit Bulls.....no offense to those that own them......but a lot of times that breed attracts irresponsible kinds of people. People that have no interest in bettering the breed or creating for them a positive image. All they care about is that they're a cool, tough breed to own and take no time to properly train or socialize their dog.
It doesn't surprise me that a Pit Bull would attack other dogs. That's what they've been bred to do for 100's of years. Some Pit Bulls are more dog aggressive than others. It takes a responsible kind of person to own one and make sure they're under control. I remember when we lived else where, there was a kid that was a boyfriend of the girl that lived next to us. At any rate, he bought himself a Pit Bull. An ex fighting dog no less. This kid had no idea what he was getting himself into nor did he have any clue as to what he was doing. Another neighbour had a St. Bernard cross that was chained outside and this kid was walking that Pit. The Pit broke the leash and went after that dog and latched onto the side of that dogs face and wouldn't let go. The kid just stood there with this dumbfounded look on his face and the owner was standing out there screaming at the top of her lungs. I still to this day just have to shake my head. I walked out there and not having anything else, I just used my hand to break his grip and got my thumb bit right smartly in the process, but got the apart. Handed the dog back to the kid and told him if he couldn't control his dog, then get rid of it. It's those kind of people that just irritate the tar out of me. Socialize, socialize, socialize and even then, keep the dog on a leash, for crying out loud, don't let them run loose and don't take them to dog parks. They're a responsibility and I don't know why I love them so much but I always have. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. I have a male that is my conformation show hopeful. His dad and grand dad and a bunch of others in his pedigree are all UKC champions and grand champions and I am HOPING he does just as well. Two of my females are out of a certified therapy dog and I'm hoping they go that way also. They definitely have the temperament for it.
I do have a question for you Sarah, if in the event that one of your dogs does bite, are you able to say that you can and will be financially responsible?
Quote from: sixdogsmom on November 14, 2009, 04:23:48 PM
I do have a question for you Sarah, if in the event that one of your dogs does bite, are you able to say that you can and will be financially responsible?
If one of my dogs bit someone? You know, you could ask that of anyone that owns a dog. If the person wanders on to my property, no I won't be as that's trespassing. If one of my dogs goes off my property, then anyone whose dog bites someone is responsible.
Honestly though, I will not tolerate a dog that shows any type of human aggression and if they do show it, they get put down. It's not a typical Pit Bull trait and I won't tolerate it in my dogs. Only poorly bred Pits are human aggressive.
So far Sarah I agreed with most of what you had to say, except for this...
Quote from: Sarah on November 14, 2009, 04:35:21 PM
Honestly though, I will not tolerate a dog that shows any type of human aggression and if they do show it, they get put down. It's not a typical Pit Bull trait and I won't tolerate it in my dogs. Only poorly bred Pits are human aggressive.
If I am not home and my home gets broken into or someone tries to harm my family, frankly, I want my dog to shred the offender. And am rather confident that she would. As it is, she is leary of strangers and will keep other dogs off my property.
Quote from: Varmit on November 14, 2009, 05:25:03 PM
So far Sarah I agreed with most of what you had to say, except for this...
If I am not home and my home gets broken into or someone tries to harm my family, frankly, I want my dog to shred the offender. And am rather confident that she would. As it is, she is leary of strangers and will keep other dogs off my property.
Maybe I should re-word this. My male, I am confident that if someone went to break into our house, he would defend the house, but when the neighbour kids come calling or someone comes to visit, they are as sweet as they can possibly be. But I would not tolerate a dog that showed any aggression towards my kids or towards visitors or aggression toward people when they're on leash or when I'm walking them. When they're guarding their own yard, I don't have a problem with that, though honestly, we only have one dog that would guard the yard.
I gotcha, that I can agree with.
I hope your house never catches on fire when you aren't home, Varmint. The same is true with ambulance calls. We've on occasion had to deal with a dog when the patient is alone and helpless with an aggressive dog loose in the house. Then there was the time I got goosed by a big German Shepard pup! ;D And the lady having a nasty heart attack who had a lap full of raging little RAMBOs who were trying to protect her from us. And the big Rot who had been shut in the bed room. I thought for sure he would eat his way out before we could take the patient and get out of there. That one did scare me! Not every stranger is an enemy, you know?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 08:17:59 PM
I hope your house never catches on fire when you aren't home, Varmint. The same is true with ambulance calls. We've on occasion had to deal with a dog when the patient is alone and helpless with an aggressive dog loose in the house. Then there was the time I got goosed by a big German Shepard pup! ;D And the lady having a nasty heart attack who had a lap full of raging little RAMBOs who were trying to protect her from us. And the big Rot who had been shut in the bed room. I thought for sure he would eat his way out before we could take the patient and get out of there. That one did scare me! Not every stranger is an enemy, you know?
True, but the dog doesn't know that. But you know, the night our little girl died and the sheriff had to come and the ambulance workers, our male was no where to be seen. He just stayed out of the way. He was a very good dog. He seems to know when he needs to be guard dog and when he doesn't. We live pretty far out and honestly, he's always the first one to greet strangers with a tail wagging and all, but one day, after dark no less, we had an insurance sales man show up here. Very strange for all the way out here and our male did not like him in the slightest and kept circling around him growling. There was something about him that our dog did NOT like. I think they sense things. At any rate, that man never came back. I don't think he was really an insurance sales man.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 08:17:59 PM
I hope your house never catches on fire when you aren't home, Varmint. The same is true with ambulance calls. We've on occasion had to deal with a dog when the patient is alone and helpless with an aggressive dog loose in the house. Then there was the time I got goosed by a big German Shepard pup! ;D And the lady having a nasty heart attack who had a lap full of raging little RAMBOs who were trying to protect her from us. And the big Rot who had been shut in the bed room. I thought for sure he would eat his way out before we could take the patient and get out of there. That one did scare me! Not every stranger is an enemy, you know?
I have had 6 heart attacks, and if I were to have another one I would be outside or someplace where my fellas are not a threat to anyone. Personally i wouldn't depend on EMS here. I can drive myself to wichita faster than they can get here.
I have in the past driven myself to a hospital because EMS was so far off. I also know how to control an attack so that i can survive it. main thing to know in a heart attack is to not panic and raise your heart rate. IF you breath deeply through the pain, and focus on something else, you will slow the attack down.
Sarah, that is true. Most dogs seem to be able to tell how is a threat and who isn't. We had some things delivered by FedEx, I wasn't home but my wife was. There were two delivery guys. My wife said that our shepherd was on guard the whole time they were here. She didn't attack them or anything, but she gave a low growl whenever they got to close and she never took her eyes off of them.
Diane, most people don't know how to handle dogs and so are bitten or whatever. Most folks that approach a dog don't know to read the animals body language.
Quote from: Varmit on November 14, 2009, 09:04:29 PM
Sarah, that is true. Most dogs seem to be able to tell how is a threat and who isn't. We had some things delivered by FedEx, I wasn't home but my wife was. There were two delivery guys. My wife said that our shepherd was on guard the whole time they were here. She didn't attack them or anything, but she gave a low growl whenever they got to close and she never took her eyes off of them.
Diane, most people don't know how to handle dogs and so are bitten or whatever. Most folks that approach a dog don't know to read the animals body language.
That is very true and even Pit Bulls give body language if even for a brief moment. Sometimes their body language can be pretty subtle. A stiff body, an erect tail, a glare. They can all show a dog that is uneasy or on the defensive.
The reason children get bit so often is first of all their short and at eye level and staring a dog in the eyes is often considered a challenge. Secondly, children have high pitched voices and are usually running around wild and so appear to dogs as unstable critters and they act excitable and often provoke attacks or bites. We had a Lab that bit our son in the face a couple of times. After the second time my husband took her out and put her down. She was very unpredictable around the kids.
Steve, you know I can't recommend anyone having a heart episode drive themselves for help, but I do understand why people do. Someone having medical problems is a hazard to others on the road. When people pass out behind the wheel, nobody is driving the car.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 11:00:40 PM
Steve, you know I can't recommend anyone having a heart episode drive themselves for help, but I do understand why people do. Someone having medical problems is a hazard to others on the road. When people pass out behind the wheel, nobody is driving the car.
You are right and i would only do so if i don't have anyone to come take me. the times i have driven myself though i waited for ems and they hadn't showed and i waited the first time for over an hour. In a attack time is limited and of the essence. I think those of us that have had their first attack, are survivors of second and third because they know when it isn't just indigestion but a real attack coming on.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 11:00:40 PM
Steve, you know I can't recommend anyone having a heart episode drive themselves for help, but I do understand why people do. Someone having medical problems is a hazard to others on the road. When people pass out behind the wheel, nobody is driving the car.
Oh don't worry Diane. I can tell you from personal experience that Steve is a hazard on the road even when he's not having an attack!
ROTFLMBO :angel: :angel: :angel:
Quote from: Sarah on November 15, 2009, 06:47:24 AM
Oh don't worry Diane. I can tell you from personal experience that Steve is a hazard on the road even when he's not having an attack!
ROTFLMBO :angel: :angel: :angel:
:| I am not!
I believe Sarah! ;D
I have been sitting here this morning reading the posts from the forum to R.A.M.B.O. as I do each morning. He is quite comfortable laying next to me in the recliner with the snuggie over us. When I read Diane's post about "raging little RAMBO's, his ears perked up at the mention of his name. He is, at this moment, still sleeping somewhat while I read to him and is not sure if Diane's comment was insulting or not. Once he has had his breakfast and morning constitutional, he may add more to his response.
Larryj (and R.A.M.B.O.)
I promise you it was not an insult! We had a time getting the little dogs off her so we could do what we needed to do. They were going to protect her or else. I think there were 5 or 6 of them.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 15, 2009, 05:52:37 PM
I promise you it was not an insult! We had a time getting the little dogs off her so we could do what we needed to do. They were going to protect her or else. I think there were 5 or 6 of them.
My guys would probably growl and fuss, but most likely lick ya to death. But the reason they do that is because the human is the pack leader and when the pack leader is sick they take up the slack and protect.
Quote from: srkruzich on November 15, 2009, 06:35:50 PM
My guys would probably growl and fuss, but most likely lick ya to death. But the reason they do that is because the human is the pack leader and when the pack leader is sick they take up the slack and protect.
Shoot....I could be laying there bleeding from an attack and someone carrying off my stuff and as long as someone threw Boo's ball for him, he'd help them. :P ::)
OK, I've sit here and heard all about y'alls dogs. Now I'll tell you about mine. Her name is Maggie Two Shoes and shes a crippled Golden Retreiver. Maybe it's because she has a gimpy foot that gave her a bad attitude and made her a killer but that is what she is. Now if you're a Conservative she will love you to death but beware if you are a far left Liberal. She will jump over her 10 foot tall fence and rip your throat out and then hunt down all your children and bite them on the butt. I aint fibbing. How she knows the differance is a mystery but SHE KNOWS !! So all you libs have be warned. Maggie Two Shoes loves WARPH and would fetch golf balls all day for him if he would just send air fare for her to fly down to Az. One more thing---she don't like tax appraisers either and the inside of her dog house is covered in human bones and Watch Tower magazines !!!! :)
Doesn't like taxappraisers?... :o Hell, I don't know any HUMANS that like tax appraisers.. ;D
Aw hell Varmit. If the tax appraiser looked like Sarah Palin you would take her out every day and let look at the ol barn just to make sure you aint made no improvements !!!
Sarah Palin...talk about "raising the tax rate" ;)
Quote from: jarhead on November 15, 2009, 07:44:57 PM
OK, I've sit here and heard all about y'alls dogs. Now I'll tell you about mine. Her name is Maggie Two Shoes and shes a crippled Golden Retreiver. Maybe it's because she has a gimpy foot that gave her a bad attitude and made her a killer but that is what she is. Now if you're a Conservative she will love you to death but beware if you are a far left Liberal. She will jump over her 10 foot tall fence and rip your throat out and then hunt down all your children and bite them on the butt. I aint fibbing. How she knows the differance is a mystery but SHE KNOWS !! So all you libs have be warned. Maggie Two Shoes loves WARPH and would fetch golf balls all day for him if he would just send air fare for her to fly down to Az. One more thing---she don't like tax appraisers either and the inside of her dog house is covered in human bones and Watch Tower magazines !!!! :)
ROTFLMBO Too funny!
Varmit,
You dirty bird. I do beleive there's a hidden message in there !!!!!
What..? Me?... I was merely refering to her ability to Raise Taxes :angel:
Varmit, Yes , she did have the ability to "raise ' taxes but she didn't----she lowered them !! She gets her moose gun after you she will "lower you to half mast" !!!!!
I had a min pin that hated men and was very protective of me and my son. I always had to put him up when any man came over (the lawn boy(who was snipped at once), firemen....he didn't care. I took him out to get the mail one day and a Jahovas Witness came by and low and behold my dog snapped at him. It wasn't that he was vicious. I adopted him from the pound when he was pretty old. He was a perfect angel with everybody except for any man that he didn't know. He was just an old cranky man!
Quote from: Sarah on November 12, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
I might have something to say about this. I've owned Pit Bulls for close to 20 years now and they're not like people say they are. It's a matter of responsible ownership versus irresponsible owners and people that don't take the time to train their dogs. But honestly, I've yet to ever see a Pit Bull inside the Howard city limits??? So, why do they all of a sudden need laws on them? And I've yet to hear of anyone being attacked by one. Is the city council just bored or what? Boy, I think I find more and more reasons to leave Elk county every day. :P
There was a pit bull by the hud houses on pine and adams, I seen it there today roaming around, but I thought the city passed a law restricting these dogs, I heard that it was that dog that mauled three people on pine last month. dont know the validity of that though because it wasnt in the paper
Do you ever see anything like that in the paper?
Most of it is public information. To get into the paper, someone needs to go to the courthouse, collect the information and send it on to Rudy and Jenny.
Quote from: PrehistoricRez on December 12, 2009, 01:26:58 AM
There was a pit bull by the hud houses on pine and adams, I seen it there today roaming around, but I thought the city passed a law restricting these dogs, I heard that it was that dog that mauled three people on pine last month. dont know the validity of that though because it wasnt in the paper
Last I heard the city passed a law, then repealed the law to make it so you had to have them in a fenced in yard or whatever. From a person that lives there, the dog bit one man and it was on the leg and it wasn't that severe.
My question would be that if it was true that a dog actually mauled 3 people last month, then the person would be in jail and the dog would be dead. Police don't take too kindly to dogs like that and are generally put down right away.
If this dog is roaming around (or any dog, for that matter), it should be reported to the authorities.
QuoteFrom a person that lives there, the dog bit one man and it was on the leg and it wasn't that severe.
I talked with the man that was bit - he was hospitalized for a couple of days. (Not sure how many - more than one, though.) His daughter was also bit.
Quote from: Mom70x7 on December 12, 2009, 11:00:52 AM
I talked with the man that was bit - he was hospitalized for a couple of days. (Not sure how many - more than one, though.) His daughter was also bit.
First of all if a dogbite requires hospitalization then why wasn't the dog put down and owner jailed?
Something sounds fishy here.
If it bit an adult on the leg maybe they are waiting for it to bite a small child in the face. The owner needs to confine it and take responsibility before that happens.
No laws?
QuoteFirst of all if a dogbite requires hospitalization then why wasn't the dog put down and owner jailed?
Don't know.
Actually, don't know what happened to the dog at all. I just talked with the guy that was bit.
QuoteNo laws?
Laws - just difficult to enforce when you have only one full-time city officer.
Quote from: Ms Bear on December 12, 2009, 11:23:11 AM
If it bit an adult on the leg maybe they are waiting for it to bite a small child in the face. The owner needs to confine it and take responsibility before that happens.
I agree, and if he can't keep the dog penned up, then the dog needs to be gotten rid of or put down. One or the other.
I wonder if this requires the victims to file charges? If the charges have to be filed by the victims and they choose not to file the charges, either out of the kindness of their hearts or out of fear of retaliation or fear of adverse opinion from the public, then what else can be done?
The other thing is how does anyone know this was a pit bull running around. Most people can't recognize a pit even if theres one right next to them.
If a dog bites a person it really doesn't matter what breed of dog it is. It would be interesting who the person who was bit should report it to and what was done to follow it up.
Quote from: Wilma on December 12, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
I wonder if this requires the victims to file charges? If the charges have to be filed by the victims and they choose not to file the charges, either out of the kindness of their hearts or out of fear of retaliation or fear of adverse opinion from the public, then what else can be done?
From what I understand Howard already has vicious dog laws on the books and no, it doesn't take the victim filing charges. If the police were notified of the bite, then they enforce the vicious dog law, whatever that may be. And for all anyone knows, the owner may have been given a ticket or fined. That's generally the laws regarding dog bites depending on the severity and if the dog has prior offences.
May I ask who owns this dog or is reponsible for it?
Quote from: Wilma on December 12, 2009, 06:09:56 PM
May I ask who owns this dog or is reponsible for it?
At first when I read this piece, I figured LarryJ was back in town and R.A.M.B.O. was working his way through the Howard democrats. Then I saw the culprit was a pit bull and not a mighty Chihuahua. You don't own a pit bull, do you, Wilma?
Dog Bites Man is pretty common story.... but how about Man Bites Dog... huh ??? Well check this one out. Not since a Baby Ruth candy bar was found floating in the Howard Country Club swimming pool, has there been such a near riot over something tubular. (Oh yeah.... while reading this, you need to be humming, "If I Were A Rich Man.") ;)
Okay.... all set? It began when a patron thought there was something fishy about his plump chicken frank that did not fit into his challah roll. He accused the worker at Brooklyn's 13th Avenue Cheskel Shawarma King restaurant of not serving a kosher frank. It had come from a package that did not look like it had a hecksher. It didn't. It has been reported that a hungry, but enraged, mob as large as ten minyanim, pushed and yelled and attacked the restaurant's staff. The manager (who looked alot like someone from the political forum) had to fend off attackers with an electric carving knife (which could be used to stop the attacking Jewry, since it had not come into contact with the unkosher meat... LOL). Rabbi Naftali Meir Babad, who had certified the restaurant as kosher, wrote a note to the Boro Park community in Yiddish defending the eatery and explaining that it was a one time incident. It seems as if the worker who was sent to the market to buy some dogs went to the local grocery and not the kosher purveyer. The sullied equipment was disposed of and the restaurant cleaned.
Think I'm kidding ??? Here's the video:
http://wcbstv.com/video/?id=125657@wcbs.dayport.com
Happy Chanukkah to you too WARPH. ;)
No, Warph, I don't have a dog. They are too much trouble.
Well, Warph, to begin with----------R.A.M.B.O. does not eat democrats (hates the taste) and being young like he is has never experienced weather such is found in SE Kansas. As it does not rain in SoCal from April until November, he has never experienced cold weather or rain. Now that it has been raining for the last week, I have found he has a disdain for carrying on with his bodily functions in the great outdoors----------not even on the covered patio where, on sunny warm days he spends his time lounging and working on his tan. He does have his own entrance which he uses when it is not raining, but refuses to use when it does.
For future reference, he has informed me that he will not be able to travel to "God's country" as he has no time between his surfing lessons and daily visits to the dog park.
Come to think of it, I never did ask the postman if he was a democrat or republican when he attempted to pet R.A.M.B.O. Must have been a Republican as R.A.M.B.O. wouldn't waste his time on a democrat.
Larryj