QuoteIn a victory for President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled House narrowly passed landmark health care legislation Saturday night to expand coverage to tens of millions who lack it and place tough new restrictions on the insurance industry. Republican opposition was nearly unanimous.
The 220-215 vote cleared the way for the Senate to begin a long-delayed debate on the issue that has come to overshadow all others in Congress.
A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later -- and Obama issued a statement saying, "I look forward to signing it into law by the end of the year."
"It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans. It offers everyone, regardless of health or income, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they will have access to affordable health care when they need it," said Rep. John Dingell, the 83-year-old Michigan lawmaker who has introduced national health insurance in every Congress since succeeding his father in 1955.
In the run-up to a final vote, conservatives from the two political parties joined forces to impose tough new restrictions on abortion coverage in insurance policies to be sold to many individuals and small groups. They prevailed on a roll call of 240-194.
Ironically, that only solidified support for the legislation, clearing the way for conservative Democrats to vote for it.
The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government's mandates.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/07/house-passes-health-care/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/07/house-passes-health-care/)
I suppose they're going to hurry up and bull this through the Senate too before next year seeing as next year is an election year.
God help us if this thing passes.
Quote from: Varmit on November 08, 2009, 07:21:14 AM
God help us if this thing passes.
And imagine what it will look like when the Senate and House versions are hammered out in conference... with no votes to be openly taken or modified much by public opinion. The passage of both the house and senate bills will then allow the system to be jacked up and literally rammed down our throats. It's a safe bet that the president will sign anything they send him. No matter the cost or content.
Oh well, there are those who will be thrilled that their govt loves them soooooo much as to mandate that they pay for health coverage for everyone (sorta). I'm amazed that the countries that have tried this nonsense (as well as the state of MA) have found that the costs and complexities are vast, that rationing/long lines/reductions in service are all realities in these programs.
It's interesting, isn't it, that as we sit here and worry about the future and education of our kids in Elk County, that many people throughout the US and a majority (it appears) in the US Congress are working just as hard to bankrupt a nation and pile debt on our kids at a pace never before seen in the history of mankind.
Then there's 500 billiion in 'cuts' to medicare. Waste and fraud? Right! We'll see if grandma agrees when services under medicare are reduced.
Let's hope people with common sense in this country get re-engaged in large numbers before the 2010 elections and actually vote!
Incumbency: The new 4 letter word!
I think what we need now is... uh...er..... Oh yeah! Cap and Trade legislation!!!!
I think they're going to vote on that cap and trade thing next month and from what I hear there's a really good chance it's going to go through and then there's this deal of Obama possibly signing that treaty with the UN next month too. Sooo, not only will we have mandated health care regardless of what you think about it AND the quality of health care cut especially to the older people, then we'll have cap and trade putting sky high taxes on EVERYTHING that we use everyday like gas, propane, electric and so forth............to top it all off, if Obama signs that, we'll be under the control of the UN. Oh boy!!!! Makes the school bond issue look a tad insignificant in the light of everything else. Problems all around. I HOPE that the Republicans get the majority back in the house and senate in 2010, but from what I hear from other people in other parts of the country, I'm not so sure. People sing his praises like he's the saviour of the world or something. Sheesh
Quote from: Sarah on November 08, 2009, 09:22:31 AM
I think they're going to vote on that cap and trade thing next month and from what I hear there's a really good chance it's going to go through and then there's this deal of Obama possibly signing that treaty with the UN next month too. Sooo, not only will we have mandated health care regardless of what you think about it AND the quality of health care cut especially to the older people, then we'll have cap and trade putting sky high taxes on EVERYTHING that we use everyday like gas, propane, electric and so forth............to top it all off, if Obama signs that, we'll be under the control of the UN. Oh boy!!!! Makes the school bond issue look a tad insignificant in the light of everything else. Problems all around. I HOPE that the Republicans get the majority back in the house and senate in 2010, but from what I hear from other people in other parts of the country, I'm not so sure. People sing his praises like he's the saviour of the world or something. Sheesh
Sarah, you've got the big picture. Ugly, isn't it? Though I'm not so sure a republican takeover in congress is the only best answer. Yes, we need much more conservative (read: conserve, to save or preserve) attitudes, but there are a lot of Republican incumbents who are just as enamored with their power like the Dems we see in action now. The voters need to send some real solid messages about governmental restraint, etc. Might not be so bad if some of the current Republicans got their whiskers trimmed too! Of course, there's local and state offices too. The old saying goes: "If nothing changes, nothing changes."
Personally, I think we may have only the next election or two to send those messages. Beyond that, these crazy laws will be in full force and the powers that are will think they have a mandate. In short, the Republic may be a goner. Can't happen, some say. Ask the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Brits, Zsars, etc. Empires come, empires go. It would just be a shame to see this one fall into total disrepair. As, I believe, the Republic we have has brought forth more liberty, prosperity and growth than any empire past.
Like Varmit said: God help us all.
Don't forget the "don't ask, don't tell " policy. The "O-man " promised he would chnge that too.That will be a sad day in our military.
Looks like our democrats and republicans are sincere about the USA being the leader of the
New World Order, or the leader of the socialist cause throughout the world. Obvisously, we are no
longer a Christian nation as we don't seem to have any thought about it or our own Constitution.
Quote from: redcliffsw on November 08, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
Looks like our democrats and republicans are sincere about the USA being the leader of the
New World Order, or the leader of the socialist cause throughout the world. Obvisously, we are no
longer a Christian nation as we don't seem to have any thought about it or our own Constitution.
You may be on to something. The 'new' battle for headship of 'The New World Order'. Though somehow, given the nature of human beings, I suspect the ultimate result will be and endless string of battles for power. Of course, it's the general populace worldwide who will fund the battles and suffer the losses.
Which begs the question: How many average citizens are
really willing to fight and die for what they believe?
The other point you make is just as valid, I opine. Of course, without God (a Creator), the entire basis of our Constitiution is nullified. There can be no inalienable rights to defend if a Creator who endows those rights is not recognized.
But, we drift from the topic. Suffice to say, the health care proposals in congress amount to the lastest 'midnight raid' on our lives, liberties opportunities to pursue happiness. And likely not the last such raid!
Quote from: Patriot on November 08, 2009, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: redcliffsw on November 08, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
Looks like our democrats and republicans are sincere about the USA being the leader of the
New World Order, or the leader of the socialist cause throughout the world. Obvisously, we are no
longer a Christian nation as we don't seem to have any thought about it or our own Constitution.
You may be on to something. The 'new' battle for headship of 'The New World Order'. Though somehow, given the nature of human beings, I suspect the ultimate result will be and endless string of battles for power. Of course, it's the general populace worldwide who will fund the battles and suffer the losses.
Which begs the question: How many average citizens are really willing to fight and die for what they believe?
The other point you make is just as valid, I opine. Of course, without God (a Creator), the entire basis of our Constitiution is nullified. There can be no inalienable rights to defend if a Creator who endows those rights is not recognized.
But, we drift from the topic. Suffice to say, the health care proposals in congress amount to the lastest 'midnight raid' on our lives, liberties opportunities to pursue happiness. And likely not the last such raid!
You know I used to think that people were generally smart, independent thinkers, but after watching the election of Obama and the way they LOVE his policies and think he's the greatest president ever.................Now I just don't know any more. It seems more and more that people will follow the majority and very few are independent thinkers any more but rather do what everyone else seems to be doing and want government to take care of their every need even at the expense of their own freedoms.
Quote from: Sarah on November 08, 2009, 10:31:36 AM
Quote from: Patriot on November 08, 2009, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: redcliffsw on November 08, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
Looks like our democrats and republicans are sincere about the USA being the leader of the
New World Order, or the leader of the socialist cause throughout the world. Obvisously, we are no
longer a Christian nation as we don't seem to have any thought about it or our own Constitution.
You may be on to something. The 'new' battle for headship of 'The New World Order'. Though somehow, given the nature of human beings, I suspect the ultimate result will be and endless string of battles for power. Of course, it's the general populace worldwide who will fund the battles and suffer the losses.
Which begs the question: How many average citizens are really willing to fight and die for what they believe?
The other point you make is just as valid, I opine. Of course, without God (a Creator), the entire basis of our Constitiution is nullified. There can be no inalienable rights to defend if a Creator who endows those rights is not recognized.
But, we drift from the topic. Suffice to say, the health care proposals in congress amount to the lastest 'midnight raid' on our lives, liberties opportunities to pursue happiness. And likely not the last such raid!
You know I used to think that people were generally smart, independent thinkers, but after watching the election of Obama and the way they LOVE his policies and think he's the greatest president ever.................Now I just don't know any more. It seems more and more that people will follow the majority and very few are independent thinkers any more but rather do what everyone else seems to be doing and want government to take care of their every need even at the expense of their own freedoms.
Might be why some folks are afraid of homeschoolers and private schoolers.
Quote from: Sarah on November 08, 2009, 10:31:36 AM
You know I used to think that people were generally smart, independent thinkers, but after watching the election of Obama and the way they LOVE his policies and think he's the greatest president ever.................Now I just don't know any more. It seems more and more that people will follow the majority and very few are independent thinkers any more but rather do what everyone else seems to be doing and want government to take care of their every need even at the expense of their own freedoms.
Yup.... but think about it for a minute. We blindly turn our kids over to the state for 'education' daily. The curriculum in our schools is to a lesser and lesser degree controlled by the local community. We give these kids to the very same government we're complaining about here, and wonder why they come out (in some cases) functionally illiterate. The non-thinkers you talk about turn their kids over to the state, don't do any serious civics education at home and it's no wonder we churn out 'go along to get along' kids who are not independent thinkers. The system of education we have now was fomented in the minds of people who were openly socialist/communist. Heck, look at the Communist Manifesto! One of the main tenets of that document is government control of the education of children! Can you say, "indoctrination"? And we wonder why the libs want sooooo badly to mandate government education beginning in Pre-K and why there is so much drive to make school a 12 month thing. Sometimes it really
isn't about better education.... just
different education. Once again, just like with health care, we just aren't smart enough to provide an education for our kids... the govt knows better!
We want our country back! And we want it back sooner rather than later!
You're right and I totally agree., the problem lies in I don't think the majority of people think that way any more. :( And you know, it really isn't the country's fault. This has been going on for years and years. The government introduces an idea. They work things in soo gradually that people fail to realize what's happening. Sort of like the toad in the pan of hot water thing. If you say something long enough people will begin to believe that it's true.
Quote from: Sarah on November 08, 2009, 11:13:14 AM
You're right and I totally agree., the problem lies in I don't think the majority of people think that way any more. :( And you know, it really isn't the country's fault. This has been going on for years and years. The government introduces an idea. They work things in soo gradually that people fail to realize what's happening. Sort of like the toad in the pan of hot water thing. If you say something long enough people will begin to believe that it's true.
Don't despair, Sarah... this thing still has to get through the senate. I for one don't think it will unless the demo's really pull some dirty tricks... and don't forget 2010. I have all ideas that a number of democrats will be voted out of office. Here is a list of Senators you can track coming up for re-election:
Democratic incumbents 1 Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas
2 Barbara Boxer of California
2.3.3 Michael Bennet of Colorado
4 Christopher Dodd of Connecticut
5 Daniel Inouye of Hawaii
6 Evan Bayh of Indiana
7 Barbara Mikulski of Maryland
8 Harry Reid of Nevada
9 Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
10 Chuck Schumer of New York
11 Byron Dorgan of North Dakota
12 Ron Wyden of Oregon
13 Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania
14 Patrick Leahy of Vermont
15 Patty Murray of Washington
16 Russ Feingold of Wisconsin
Warph, I wish I was as optimistic as you are. I fear that this health care thing is going to pass, in one form or another. The Repubs are to willing to compromise on the issue. As for the 2010 elections, I think they are a false hope.
I'm kind of with you Varmit. I think it will probably pass the Senate sooner or later if the Dems will put enough enticements on there to get the Republicans to swing over to their way of voting. I believe if the one Independent in the Senate will swing toward the Dem side, they have enough votes to pass the bill even with Republican opposition. I've heard it'll probably pass and I've heard that the cap and trade thing will more than likely pass too. Pretty soon we'll all be dirt poor due to taxes and other fines and fees.
Warph, you've made a good point and I'm hoping that it'll fail.
Varmit, I think you're right about the Republicans. They've been a false hope on
many things over the years and there'll never be an improvement on their part.
The party of Lincoln has done severe damage to this country throughout the years
since its inception and now the Democrats seem intent to complete what the
Republicans started.
You can be sure that one of four things are going to happen:
They can pass the bill as written, which is unlikely to happen
They can pass it with amendments, and send it back to the House of Representatives
The measure can be defeated
Joe Lieberman can follow through with his threat and start a filibuster, and kill the bill without a vote, which can be a win-win for Senators, both repubs and demos, who were against the bill but afraid to vote against it for political reasons.
Some form of reform is inevitable. I agree that competition will fix the market, but the health insurance industry has been protected from competition for a long long time. The republicans had complete control of the government for 6+ years and did nothing. They went against their own party principles to keep power and make money for their friends. Consider this a consequence for selling out.
House Democrats missed opportunities to improve the House-passed health care bill when they rejected Republican ideas to limit lawsuits and give states more flexibility to enact innovative changes, a Republican lawmaker said Saturday.
Delivering the Republicans' weekly radio and Internet address, Rep. Mark Kirk of Illinois said health care costs could be lowered by "reining in lawsuits" and allowing consumers to buy coverage from across state lines. Kirk promoted several provisions in the House Republican health care bill, which was rejected a week ago when the House passed the Democratic plan.
"Unfortunately, all of these commonsense Republican reforms were rejected by Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi," Kirk said in the address. "The Pelosi health care bill has no significant lawsuit reforms and does not guarantee your medical rights from government waiting lines or restrictions."
Kirk, who is in his fifth House term representing the suburbs north of Chicago, is a candidate for the Republican nomination to run for the Senate seat that was held by President Barack Obama. He called the House Democrats' health plan "a new massive spending program, supported by heavy taxes and heavy cuts to senior health care."
"In sum, the bill opens a new trillion-dollar entitlement just as our national debt tops $12 trillion," Kirk said.
The House Democrats' bill would cost $1.2 trillion over 10 years and expand coverage to an additional 36 million people. The Republican plan would reduce federal deficits by $68 billion over the 10-year period and push down premiums for privately insured people but would reduce the number of uninsured by just 3 million, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.
The House Democrats' bill would raise $460 billion over the next decade from new income taxes on single people making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million. There are also more than $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid and a new $20 billion fee on medical device makers.
The House Republican bill had no new taxes. Republicans would get savings by capping medical liability awards, stepping up efforts to fight Medicare and Medicaid fraud, and setting up an approval process for generic versions of high-tech drugs.