Elk County Forum

 for POSITIVE political discussion? A thread to discuss the problems and possible solutions without the scare tactics and the negative propaganda?
Practicle information on political problems, environmental problems, economical problems, healthcare problems...? News about innovations and progress? News about what people are doin everyday everywhere to make a difference for the next generation independant of politics, agendas and predjudices?
Anyone interested?

Maybe we need to leave the political out of the name, and name it social interaction. No, that probably wouldn't work either---  :D Anybody?

I've been following that Traficant guy since he got out of jail,  Waiting for him to make a few more appearances before i was going to start a thread but he's saying some interesting things.

James Traficant is more like the the old Democrats.
Glorified Republicanism dominates the Democrat party
these days.

Okay.... here's a couple:


While we have soldiers being killed in Afghanistan, Senator John Kerry has the gall to insert a $20 million earmark in the defense spending bill to fund the Edward M. Kennedy Institute.  The purpose of the institute is to house Kennedy's papers.  It is to be built on the campus of the University of Massachusetts at Boston.  The leftists have no conscience, they have no shame, and they have no memory.  Have they forgotten that Kennedy was a sot, a womanizer, possibly a traitor (his letter to Russia: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/kgb_kennedy_the_ted_kennedy_i.html 
and, through his negligence and cowardly concern for career, allowed a young woman to suffocate and drown in his submerged car.  He also skipped a full term military stint (Only 2 yrs., courtesy of his father).  Now Kerry (who, you will remember, served in Vietnam and then ratted on the military) wants to honor Kennedy with money from a military bill.  Well that figures since Kerry detested the military anyway and Kennedy essentially ignored it; why not debase the military further with this piece of pork.  It's beyond comprehension.  It's a travesty to tie funds for this institute to a military spending bill.  It's a travesty to spend any tax money on any such self-righteous program. 

and this:

The longer he is in office, the more it appears that Barack H. Obama doesn't really want to be president but only to PLAY at being president.  He doesn't seem interested in dealing with the messy, day-to-day responsibilities of the president's job.  He doesn't want to be the Chief Executive and propose legislation that will move the country forward to new heights.  He doesn't want to be Commander-In-Chief of the military and execute a necessary war.  He doesn't take on the fiscal responsibilities required of the executive to deal with our economic issues.  He doesn't want to be leader of the United States and act with dignity and forcefulness to put American interests forward in the world community.  Barack Obama, like a child playing a game, seems to ignore reality and live in a make-believe world.  He goes to international conferences and makes speeches so that (as he imagines) the countries of the world see him as the organizer of a global community; he appears on radio and television to speak and be seen as the leader of the country that he refuses to lead; he wants to talk; he loves to talk.  And like the child who plays at being doctor or father or mother, he talks about what he wants.  Like a child, he overuses the first person pronouns.  All his rhetoric is "I" and "me" and "my" and, sometimes, the inclusive "us" and "our."  He wants to be seen and heard.  But he doesn't want to do (except to make speeches, and even these are prepared by others, canned, and read from a teleprompter).  Those speeches in which he does seem to be taking charge are followed by a child-like loss of interest in the subject.  He loses interest in playing that game and goes on to another.  In the meantime, other world leaders, especially our enemies and potential enemies are operating in the real world of economic turmoil, international power rivalry, and horrendous weapons.  In these perilous times, made more so by his apparent lack of interest in dealing maturely with real issues, we cannot afford to have a chief executive who abdicates his duties and only plays at being president.


Now.... Keeping in mind, "A thread to discuss the problems and possible solutions without the scare tactics and the negative propaganda?" ..... what I have laid out here are all Facts... they are problems, (no scare tatics or negative propaganda) looking for solutions.  Who wants to go first?

Quote from: Anmar on September 29, 2009, 10:48:31 PM
I've been following that Traficant guy since he got out of jail,  Waiting for him to make a few more appearances before i was going to start a thread but he's saying some interesting things.

colorful guy alright ! Think if he knows things he says he knows he ought to just spill his guts to anybody who will listen....get it public knowledge. NOW. If it's true and whoever would kill to keep it secret..tell EVERYbody!

I was thinkin along the lines of posting and discussin practical nuts and bolts type info instead of "political" type info that never accomplishes anything or teaches us anything that doesn't have party spin on it. Reckon that's possible to do?
Now for Warph's........
You don't like what Congressmen are doing...quit re-electing them. Like I said before some of those people have been re-elected for 20-30 years or more. They never do anything different so it's the fools who keep voting for thems fault. Until that stops NOTHING will change. Our government is stagnant and corrupt. I t needs new blood.

As for Obama, he will be gone with another election also.Whoever happens to be president at any given time gets all the credit for whatever is happening at the time. The problems we have in this country AND in the world didn't start yesterday or even the day after he got elected. These things have been comin to a head ever since Nixon. The same thing applies...our government is stagnant and corrupt. It is rotting and needs new blood NOW.
It needs all the doors thrown open and the cobwebs cleaned out of the corners. It needs a good stiff wind to clean out the polluted air. The "spooks" and secret keepers have been in charge too long.

Here is the kind of thing I'm talking about......this is forward-looking. The only problem is the companies are mostly from over-seas....America needs to create it's OWN industry companies.....yeah the jobs are gonna be great for the people who get them but WE end up being the consumer instead of the manufacturer once again.

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. - The same week that automakers sought billions in aid to avoid bankruptcy, two states, including Michigan, announced huge alternative power industry investments, with one site being built on land once set aside to lure auto manufacturers.

Manufacturing strongholds hardest hit by job losses years ago began laying the groundwork to land green jobs and may now be poised for the biggest gains, depending on federal economic stimulus funding.

The $900 billion economic package before Congress has more than $50 billion in energy-related incentives.


President Barack Obama has set a goal of doubling the use of renewable energy in three years, potentially placing states with established programs in a position to replace thousands of manufacturing jobs lost over the last decade.

Michigan created a $2 billion fund using tobacco settlement money to target four economic sectors, one being alternative energy.

The state, which has lost more than 150,000 automotive jobs over the past eight years, began using community colleges to retrain the unemployed and underemployed for green jobs.

"Employers, if you come to Michigan, we will deliver trained employees to you," Gov. Jennifer Granholm said. "And employees, we will pay for your training, but the kicker is you've got to agree to be trained in an area that we know we have need in."

The alternative energy industry, like others, is being shaken right now by a wave of layoffs and bankruptcies. Without help from the government, analysts are forecasting double digit declines in business and installations.

States continue to look beyond the current economic downturn, however, and many expect a boom in alternative energy investments ahead.

The competition to lure green industry jobs heated up several years ago, and is expected to grow even tighter with more money in play.

Federal proposals include $32 billion to upgrade the nation's electrical distribution system, more than $20 billion in tax cuts to promote the development of alternatives to oil, and billions more to make public housing, federal buildings and modest-income homes more energy efficient.

Glen Andersen, of the National Conference of State Legislatures, said states began lobbying for green jobs long before it was known that Washington might sweeten the investment pot.

"They definitely are just looking at their own interests and not considering the federal government," he said.

Denmark-based Vestas Wind Systems said it would invest $680 million in Colorado and employ as many as 2,450 people in the state by 2010.

Though economic incentives could exceed $8 million, Larry Burkhardt, president and chief executive officer of Upstate Colorado Economic Development, said that plays a small role in luring companies like Vestas.

A trained work force and a transportation infrastructure to move raw materials are what launches a community to the top of a company's list, Burkhardt said.

"Incentives are just icing on the cake, and they usually are used to differentiate finalist communities," he said.

Hexcel Corp., a British wind turbine component maker, recently announced plans to build a facility next to a Vestas plant in Colorado.

"We're going to see continued inquiries," Burkhardt said.

Pennsylvania, which was hit by contraction in the steel and manufacturing sectors, began seeking out alternative power companies long ago, and landed Spanish wind energy manufacturing giant Gamesa six years ago.

Today, Gamesa has its U.S. headquarters in Philadelphia and facilities further west in Ebensburg and Fairless Hills, at a former U.S. Steel site.

Add-on projects that come with big alternative energy deals are getting increased attention.

Michigan is extending tax credits to suppliers of alternative energy companies as well.

"If they lure any of their supply chain into Michigan, we will give them a tax break in addition to the tax breaks we would give to the companies they're luring," Granholm said.

Hemlock Semiconductor Corp., which is building the giant manufacturing facility originally intended to lure an auto company in Tennessee, plans to spend more than $2.2 billion to expand solar operations in Michigan.

The initial $1.2 billion investment by Hemlock, a joint venture between Dow Corning Corp. and Japanese companies Shin-Etsu Handotai Co. and Mitsubishi Materials Corp., could become the largest industrial project in Tennessee history.

James Chavez, president of the local economic development council, said the 1,215-acre site near the Kentucky border was originally being prepped to lure in an auto manufacturer.

Yet he and others were waiting and preparing for companies like Hemlock.

Competition for green projects has only grown more competitive, said Fred Mondragon, New Mexico's economic secretary.

Schott Solar Inc., a subsidiary of Schott AG of Germany, announced last year that it would build a $100 million photovoltaic production facility in Albuquerque, but only after the state beat out nearly a dozen other states and 17 countries for the project.

"We see that frequently," he said.

OK, so let's play this game...
ALL political seats at all levels are up for grabs in November.  No one can announce who is "running".  No campaigns.  No TV ads.

Who would you vote for?  (State their name and the political seat you'd vote for them.  Maybe include who currently holds that seat, too.)  Although ballots aren't ESSAY, feel free to post here why you think that person would be good for that position.

could get interesting.......... ;)

Quote from: Tobina+1 on October 01, 2009, 10:36:48 AM
OK, so let's play this game...
ALL political seats at all levels are up for grabs in November.  No one can announce who is "running".  No campaigns.  No TV ads.

Who would you vote for?  (State their name and the political seat you'd vote for them.  Maybe include who currently holds that seat, too.)  Although ballots aren't ESSAY, feel free to post here why you think that person would be good for that position.

President - Ron Paul

Vice pres - Jesse Ventura

Governor (California) - Tom Campbell

Senators (California) - Tom McClintock, Pete Stark

House (13th district, CA)  -  Myself, duh!

I'll edit my post as to my reasons when i have a bit more time.

Anmar; is the CA 13th district house seat actually up in November, and are you really planning on running?  If it's not up in Nov, when is it up, and will you run then?

Okay, so if I were to pick a person for a political seat, it would be Pam. My mom and I have discussed it and Pam has a lot of knowledge of historical and current events. Hell, half of my history papers in high school were written while I was on the phone with her getting my info. SERIOUSLY! Anyways, Pam is level headed and can keep her cool but still has a no bullshit (am I allowed to say that ???) way of getting her point across. I really think she could walk into office and get some of this crap cleaned up. She DOES know what she is talking about and won't lie ( A BIG SELLING POINT) because she really doesn't care whos toes she steps on she is just about taking care of business which is what we need in office. then I could go tell all my friends that my aunt wammy is the president!!!!!!!! LOL

Is sarcasm allowed? ---------- Sarah Palin for anything, I need a good laugh right now!  ;)

Sixdogs, you have a good laugh, he's in the White House right now...Joe Biden...every time he opens his mouth someone wants to cram a sock in it! Sarah Palin is good tho, just not for a laugh.

Hillbilly,
Do you know why the left hates Palin so much ? Is it fear ? It just escapes me as to why .

I don't hate her, she just amuses me.

What's amusing about her tho? Is it her big ears? Her big floppy feet? Does she have a big pinnochio nose? Or is it a pig with lipstick comment?

I suppose that the left is scared of Sarah Palin because she is a down to earth, realistic, all-American, gun toting NRA member that BELIEVES in the 2nd Amendment (and Constitution) country girl with intelligence, morals and looks that Democratic women don't have. AND she's pro-life with a Christian (not Muslim) background. This is why I believe that the left loonies want to keep bringing up Sarah Palin and try to run her in the ground because she IS a real threat. It is my belief that without her, John McCain wouldn't have gone as far as he did and it is also my belief that in around 1200 days from now we will have a NEW American President in Office. One who does not trash our country with every turn of his LYING face.

Now, the ones that won't like this post are the pigs with lipstick....

MR. Kshillbillys

 Cheyenne you couldn't melt me down and POUR me in Washington :P I don't have the ass-kissin personality it takes LOL

  As for Sarah Palin.......if she was such a "good ol girl" she wouldn't make such a big deal out of tellin everybody shes a "good ol girl". Shes no more of a threat than any other politician. Think it's time they elected a president based on BUSINESS sense instead of what their religous or moral program is. I don't need government for either one. Like it or not this country is basically one huge MISmanaged corporation and needs a CEO not a psuedo conscience.

For president and vice-president: Ron Paul and TBoone Pickens....I like TBoone because he is a big oil man but he can think ahead to when oil ain't gonna be king and see the need for other alternatives.

for governor- Matt Blunt- he was a republican but he did a good job when he WAS governor. He was responsible for the bill that made getting or renewing id-s and drivers lisences such a pain in the ass but it WAS for a very good reason.

NO.  NO SARCASM ALLOWED.  
Yes, I'm a kill-joy, but you get your chance to belittle the politicians on all the other political threads.  This one is designed for you to have your opportunity to tell us who you WOULD vote for!  And WHY they would be a good candidate.  Obviously, you all will end up voting for the same ole, same ole (and then complain about the same old same ole)... as you haven't given too many honest answers yet.  (Anmar, Cheyenne, and Pam are exempt from my rant.)

I did not see your rules. I gess we know who some of the lipstick wearers are now.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 MR. KSHILLYBILLY :o

I could care less about your opinion of Palin.  Or how you prefer your swine made-up (frankly, that's between you and your livestock).  I want to know who you'd choose to vote FOR!

Well did not choose livestock for the white house YOU guys already did that with Opiga.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I VOTE FOR JOE & DICK IN 12 :police:

I want to apologise to Pam; she started this thread as an exercise meant to be constructive. My sarcasm about Sarah Palin, although appropriate IMHO, it was not appropriate in this thread, and I do apologise. It was like throwing a solied diaper down in Utopia.  :-[ I'm sorry Pam.

Quote from: kshillbillys on October 02, 2009, 09:31:44 AM
I did not see your rules. I gess we know who some of the lipstick wearers are now.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 MR. KSHILLYBILLY :o

Hillbilly, mr or mrs. I started this thread..... read the FIRST post.......I asked for constructive information and leave all the "party" propaganda in other threads so maybe we could have a conversation without a bunch of derogatory bullshit. I'm tired of the same old same old and wanted to maybe learn something instead of listening to a bunch of juvenile crap.I don't think ANY of us voted for Obama, I know I didn't and that isn't what this was to be about anyway. There are plenty of OTHER threads for Obama trashin. Yeah I didn't like Sarah Palin...so what?

Don't worry bout it SDM, I pretty much knew this was an exercise in futility LOL.

Tobina had an excellant idea with her post and we could have all traded ideas without insults if we had kept to what she asked for.

Don't give up the ship yet!  Eventually, those with positive thoughts will realize that they should post here and others who wish to diss each other about their politics go on the threads that are already there screaming at each other.  

There are probably millions of good ideas that can be discussed here without slapping some one's hand.  Like, and I posted this somewhere, I think,---------------the other day I took my Granddaughter to the park.  I said something about the Cork squares that was put in place around the playground equipment.  I had not seen that at any of the other parks in the neighborhood.  If a child should fall, they would basically just bounce.  It is probably cost prohibitive for some towns, but it is a great idea.  I know we all pay taxes to the feds and the state, so asking for money for a project like this would probably not happen, but it would be nice.  I think I would look at it as an increase in my taxes, but I am directing where the money is spent.  

Larryj

Mostly around where I grew up  Larry, they used a deep layer of fine sand that was pumped from the Arkansas River. You just sank in when you landed with no harm, well at least most of the time.  ;)

Quote from: pamsback on October 02, 2009, 07:20:28 PM
Hillbilly, mr or mrs. I started this thread..... read the FIRST post.......I asked for constructive information and leave all the "party" propaganda in other threads so maybe we could have a conversation without a bunch of derogatory bullshit. I'm tired of the same old same old and wanted to maybe learn something instead of listening to a bunch of juvenile crap.

Just out of curiosity, why weren't sixdogs and tobina included in this?  Espcially seeing that they started in with the "degrogatory bullshit" first.  If we are tired of the same old politics then we have to abandon the policy of laying the blame for something solely at the feet of one party.

All of the local playgrounds here, and we have many being in a large urban area, have sand.  Wednesday, I took to the local city park which is sand.  When we get back to the van, she has to empty her shoes and take off her socks and brush her feet off. 

Unfortunately, there have been incidents where some fool has buried nails or razor blades in the sand, like at the bottom of a slide.  We can't let her run through the sand without her shoes on.  It is a sad thing that there are these people around. 

Larryj

That is just awful! Why in the world would someone do that.

Well, we have all kinds here.  That was one of the reasons I was so impressed with the cork.  It was colored dark gray basically with some lighter color designs.  That made it easy to see anything that would be dangerous.  We have those that start these brush fires also.  What are ya gonna do?

Larryj

Then I would say that cork is well worth the expense, damn, it sounds like the gene pool is nearing the bottom rungs doesn't it?

Many of the playgrounds in Emporia, or at least the ones that have been recently updated are now using recycled shredded tire rubber. It is really nice because we dont have the whole backseat full of sand when we leave. Also it is very soft and "springy". Not sure what the cost was but you would think it would be a little cheaper since it is a recycled product. Its also nice because after a rain it doesn't get mushy or muddy. They also have those thick mats underneath the swings to keep from getting those holes that fill with water. The just built a new peter pan playground last spring and they did an excellent job planning it. We don't go there often because it is so crowded.

 A lot of the playgrounds around here use the recycled tire rubber too. You can even buy it at landscaping stores to use for mulch on your yard instead of wood chips. Lasts forever and drains good and the cats don't use it Lol.

Tyler Casey was honored at the National Firefighters Memorial in Maryland yesterday. He was a member of the volunteer department and was out warning people about the 2008 tornado that took out huge chunks from Picher Oklahoma to Monett Missouri. His truck got caught in the tornado.

Seneca firefighter Tyler Casey, who lost his life during the tornado:
Redings Mill Fire Chief Andy Nimmo credited Casey with saving the lives of three people before he was injured.

"The key is he sacrificed his life so that others would live," Nimmo said. "He was out warning people so they could get to safety, and then a tornado got him.

"I have a tremendous amount of pride for what he did. I wish I could be as much of a firefighter as he was. Here he was, just 21 years old and not getting paid anything for what he did. He could have run the other way, but he ran toward it, and gave his life saving others. I hope everyone realizes how much of a hero he was."

Good one Pam. The first Sunday in Fire Prevention week (tomorrow) is National Fallen Fire Fighter's Memorial Sunday. Fire companies across the country  are supposed to blow their sirens at noon. We still have our big original big bell from 1888. We pull the rope once for each fire fighter whose  life was lost in the line of duty the previous calendar year .There is also a big ceremony at Emmitsburg Md. Every fire fighter's family is invited and we always send a few people down to act as escorts since we are close. This year we ring the bell 118 times. 113 for regular firefighters and 5 more for contract fire fighters, usually from wild fires. That's 118 total. 118 too darn many.Tyler will be included for Kansas.

Thought this was interestin....what do yall know about algae as fuel?

Southern Ute Tribe invests in making fuel from algae   
Monday, September 21 2009 

 
By Associated Press,
An unusual experiment featuring equal parts science, environmental optimism and Native American capitalist ambition is unfolding on the Southern Ute Indian Reservation in southwest Colorado.
With the twin goals of making fuel from algae and reducing emissions of heat-trapping gases, a start-up company co-founded by a Colorado State University professor recently introduced a strain of algae that loves carbon dioxide into a water tank next to a natural gas processing plant. The water is already green-tinged with life.

The Southern Utes, one of the nation's wealthiest American Indian communities thanks to its energy and real-estate investments, is a major investor in the professor's company. It hopes to gain a toehold in what tribal leaders believe could be the next billion-dollar energy boom. But from the tribe's perspective, the business model here is about more than business. "It's a marriage of an older way of thinking into a modern time," said the tribe's chairman, Matthew J. Box, referring to the interplay of environmental consciousness and investment opportunity around algae.

The tribe, whose reservation sits atop one of the world's richest fields of natural gas from coal-bed methane, had to surmount many hurdles to find an alternative energy idea it considered suitable. For example, any project that would displace land used for growing food was tossed out for philosophical reasons: the Southern Utes' belief that energy and food should not compete in a world where people still starve. That eliminated discussion of corn-based ethanol.And whatever was chosen had to be at least technically feasible, if not immediately profitable.

The 1,400-member tribe also has a long history of herbal medicine use that made growing algae for fuel appealing, Mr. Box said. "It reminded people of herbs that are helpful here, like bear root, which is harvested in the mountains," he said.

The Colorado State professor, Bryan Willson, who teaches mechanical engineering and is a co-founder of the three-year-old company Solix Biofuels, said working with the Southern Utes on their land afforded his company advantages that would have been impossible in mainstream corporate America. The tribe contributed almost one-third of the $20 million in capital raised by Solix, free use of land and more than $1 million in equipment.

"If you're going with strict venture capital, they're looking for a blistering return on capital in three to five years," Dr. Willson said. "The Utes have a very long economic view. They're making decisions now for future generations as opposed to the next quarter, and that is just fundamentally different."
Al Darzins, a group manager at the lab's National Bioenergy Center, said Solix's model was different from most: the algae is grown in closed bags, lined up vertically in the water tanks, with the intent of increasing yield. He said the crux will be controlling costs. "Solix has an interesting idea; whether it will work, I don't know," Mr. Darzins said. "It's all going to come down to the economics."

Solix's facility project is next to the natural gas processing plant for access to the carbon dioxide waste stream, which will be used to nourish the algae – a kind of biological recycling of carbon dioxide before its discharge into the atmosphere as the vegetable fuel is burned. The plant also produces waste heat, which could be used to warm the algae beds in winter. In addition, the high desert plateau of southwest Colorado is one of the sunniest spots in the nation, providing solar radiation that accelerates algae growth.

Central to Solix's business model, Dr. Willson said, is the hope that power plants and other factories now venting carbon dioxide will allow the company to build an algae farm next to their carbon dioxide vent pipes. A plant could sell the oil or biodiesel, and Solix would earn its return by being a part owner-operator, or by licensing the technology.

If Solix can expand its operations to a commercial scale, the Southern Utes will have certain first ownership and operating rights in Solix plants throughout much of the Western United States.

Pam, this is my post from September 4, 2008. Algae makes more sense than using Corn.

Carl, I have mentioned Algae on here before, what you have posted is a new article to me and a good one. It has been proven that Algae will produce  a good quality Ethanol and at a much better yield per acre than Corn and/or Sugar. To me the biggest plus for Algae based Ethanol is that we can raise it in waters that are not used for sustaining life otherwise, we have massive areas that can be utilized and the biggest plus of all is that it is not taking food away from a rapidly growing population that has many people starving in the world. I have always been opposed to using Corn or other food sources to make fuel for people to burn in their Hummers, Big V-10s etc. Anything we can do to reduce our dependence on Foreign Oil is important. The clock is ticking and it is just a matter of time until the Nations of Islam, Russia, Venzuela and others decide to cut the US off from their oil. I don't think people have any idea how bad it will be if we loose half or more of oil supply. One of the biggest concerns I have about Ethanol is the long range damage to the current engines, most articles I have read say it is not as efficent as Petroleum Based Gasoline and Diesel, that we can live with, but there have been several articles written about the damage it can do to the engines with prolonged use. Also given the current engines I think 10% Ethanol is considered the optimum mix, that can no doubt be improved as we use more Ethanol. Again, I am for anything that reduces our independence on Foreign Oil.
CARL, ONE THING I WANTED TO ADD IS THAT ETHANOL IS NOW TRADED IN THE FUTURES MARKET. THERE MUST BE ENOUGH OF IT AVAILABLE NO TO MAKE A MARKET IN IT.

UD has been researching it here for several years....looks promising.

You know any plant is a CO2 digester.  Algae just manages to digest more per square foot than other plants do.  I believe that some groups have perused the idea of using algae as a o2 generator for use on other planets if we colonize them.  It is compact and grows rapidly and produces a lot of O2 from carbon dioxide.  call it a co2 scrubber if you will.   It also can be used as a food source.

 Thanks Frank, I appreciate it :) I have the same concerns about the ethanol....a few stations down here sell what they call E85 and you sure don't want to put it in your regular car. Still sounds like a good idea tho.

The biggest problem with ethenol is that it destroys seals and gaskets.   TBI injection utiliizes one or two injectors in the carb.  They have orings in them that hold the injector pressure steady and the ethenol eats these seals.  IT also will eat and destroy valves in the engine UNLESS you have special valves in it that are made for burning ethenol. 

The OLDER cars like my pickup with a old fashioned carb, can burn it but you need to install valves that will withstand the alchohol.  You can run pure alchohol in the older engines with those valve modifications.

Ethnaol was one of the biggest debacles of our enegry history.  Why we were so taken with the stuff is beyond me (I'm sure it has nothing to do with the 5.5 million the corn lobby gave to politicians from 2005 to 2008).  After a $56.1 billion taxpayer investment what did we get in return?...Really expensive corn flakes.

Subsidies were supposed to lower the cost of corn, which would in turn be used to create cheap fuel, this was supposed to lead to a greater production of cars that ran on the stuff and we would all be driving around in vehicles powered by a crop grown right here in America....ehh, not so much.

What actually happened is that subsidies caused farmers to chase the money and use their crops for ethanol production instead of food production.  That led to a full one-quarter of Americas corn crop being used for ethanol, which meant there wasn't enough left over for food.  That raised the prices on a slew of things like beef and other corn products.

As if that wasn't bad enough, all this was done because of flawed research and based on the idea that it would be better for the enviroment.  If a little more research had been done they just might have found out that Corn ethanol is 30% less efficient than gasoline and far less efficient than Sugar ethanol.  Not only that, but it is Worse for the enviroment than regular gas.

So, my solution would be to open more areas in the United States for drilling.  It would lower our dependence on foregin oil, provide much needed jobs, better the economy, not to mention lower gas prices.  Use this to sustain us while research is done on viable alternative enegry sources.

 Yeah Varmit it would....for aWHILE. Fact of the matter is the oil AIN'T gonna last forever, we've managed to seriously deplete in just over a hundred years what took millions to make so supply is NOT gonna keep up with demand.

This algae ethanol thing is worth lookin into....like Steve said a few changes in engine construction and you are good to go. The problem was little old ladies pulled into the station,saw this E85 was almost a dollar cheaper a gallon and didn't know any better, burned up their valves.

Oil is the lifeblood of this planet and when it's gone it's gone, I think we should change our modus operandi BEFORE that happens, it's just common sense.

I lived with pumpjacks in my backyard for years, believe it or not I pumped a lease for a couple of years, granted it was a small one but the small ones have the same problems and breakdowns as the big ones. I grew up on money Dad made in the oil field, Joe worked in the oil field for years, my grandad worked in the oil fields years ago when all those ghost towns in greenwood county were oil camps. I made my livin for the last 6 years putting on vinyl siding which is a petroleum product. I should be hardcore FOR oil but I'm not. We have to move on and find a better way.

Quote from: pamsback on October 06, 2009, 07:07:27 AM
Yeah Varmit it would....for aWHILE. Fact of the matter is the oil AIN'T gonna last forever, we've managed to seriously deplete in just over a hundred years what took millions to make so supply is NOT gonna keep up with demand.

This algae ethanol thing is worth lookin into....like Steve said a few changes in engine construction and you are good to go. The problem was little old ladies pulled into the station,saw this E85 was almost a dollar cheaper a gallon and didn't know any better, burned up their valves.

Oil is the lifeblood of this planet and when it's gone it's gone, I think we should change our modus operandi BEFORE that happens, it's just common sense.

I lived with pumpjacks in my backyard for years, believe it or not I pumped a lease for a couple of years, granted it was a small one but the small ones have the same problems and breakdowns as the big ones. I grew up on money Dad made in the oil field, Joe worked in the oil field for years, my grandad worked in the oil fields years ago when all those ghost towns in greenwood county were oil camps. I made my livin for the last 6 years putting on vinyl siding which is a petroleum product. I should be hardcore FOR oil but I'm not. We have to move on and find a better way.

Well E85 is unsustainable and i am totally against using our food as a fuel source.  We saw what happened last couple years, our food prices skyrocketed because of it.  Also alchohol isn't efficient enough to run engines today even with the modifications.  It doesn't have enough BTU's in it.  Thats why they mix it with gasoline, cause it won't work.  Try driving in areas that aren't flat  and you'll find out why you don't run e85 or even e10 i think they call it.   It sucks.

Yeah..I know! Hell they couldn't get cars to run on GAS when they started. Have to have people who are willing to figure it out.

Don't get me wrong pam, I agree with you to a point about oil.  I'm not saying that we should drill and thats it.  But that it would give us more of a cushion while we found an alternative.  But that alternative needs to be a viable one, not like the corn thing.  Who knows, the alge might be worth checking out.  What I don't want to see happen is that we jump on any alternative that comes along (i.e. wind, solar) without some exteremly hardcore research.

 I agree with that Billy......it's not gonna happen overnight but we have to keep lookin...the problem is when oil gets cheaper people quit thinkin about alternatives :P  I'm all for cheaper gas and more drillin WILL get that short term but it's just a bandaid!

  Try driving in areas that aren't flat  and you'll find out why you don't run e85 or even e10 i think they call it.   It sucks.

I drove all through the Colorado Rockies on E85 and didn't have an issue with the flexfuel gm product.  I only lost 1mile per gallon compared to what we get with regular unleaded at home.  Water down the oil is a short term fix for a long term problem.  Algae, biomass, and fuel cells are going to change our personal energy in our lifetime. 

I bet water is the next oil. 

QuoteI bet water is the next oil.

God I hope not.

Quote from: pepelect on October 06, 2009, 08:34:54 PM
  Try driving in areas that aren't flat  and you'll find out why you don't run e85 or even e10 i think they call it.   It sucks.

I drove all through the Colorado Rockies on E85 and didn't have an issue with the flexfuel gm product.  I only lost 1mile per gallon compared to what we get with regular unleaded at home.  Water down the oil is a short term fix for a long term problem.  Algae, biomass, and fuel cells are going to change our personal energy in our lifetime. 

I bet water is the next oil. 

well you lose pulling power with e85.  Just not enough btus for it.    I know bootleggers used it for running liquor back years ago, but they also had high compression engines with a 10:1 or 11:1 compression ratio.   They don't make anything that high except for diesels these days.

 Just build your own  ;) like we used to in the good ol days ;D

  Went to town this mornin....had to get some stuff and get my blood pressure checked. Doctor was on vacation so I went to walmart because they have a free blood pressure machine. Anyway, out front...in the rain...there was a man about 80 years old probably had set up a table......he was selling raffle tickets for the American Legion and collecting donations for military families....80...in the rain......lady told him it looked like he was fixin to get wet....he said he wasn't gonna melt.

A big problem with Ethanol is the corn thing that billy mentioned.  What wasn't mentioned is that ethanol can be made very cheaply from sugar, like Brazil does.  The problem is that the Sugar industry lobbies the government for heavy heavy tariffs on imported sugar so we really can't import it from anywhere.

Anmar, ever heard of sugar beets?

My father-in-law works for a fertilizer company in S. Florida and his company has started working with the Indians to put in irrigation systems so they can start growing sugar cane year-around.  The idea is that they will soon be putting in sugar ethanol plants.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 08, 2009, 11:47:15 AM
Anmar, ever heard of sugar beets?

Its still utilizing our food supply for fuel.   Haven't we learned from that mistake already?

Steve, do you eat sugar beets?

My Dad :angel: was an old truck driver from way back. I remember him telling me there was a gentleman in western kansas that build a car engine that ran on water. Ford bought everything from him including putting a clause in the contract that he could not build another engine. Of course the man and his next several generation were very well off.
Jane ;)   

Quote from: pamsback on October 08, 2009, 09:52:32 AM
  Went to town this mornin....had to get some stuff and get my blood pressure checked. Doctor was on vacation so I went to walmart because they have a free blood pressure machine. Anyway, out front...in the rain...there was a man about 80 years old probably had set up a table......he was selling raffle tickets for the American Legion and collecting donations for military families....80...in the rain......lady told him it looked like he was fixin to get wet....he said he wasn't gonna melt.

That is somebody with dedication. I admire those people and those are the people I will donate to. Kind of like the girl scouts and boy scouts. If a kid asks me to buy something I always will. If their parents ask me I will pass.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 08, 2009, 05:01:49 PM
Steve, do you eat sugar beets?

No but we use the sugar from it for foodstuffs.  And depleting our sugar supply will only raise the cost of like EVERYTHING! 

I don't think babies should ever be thrown out with bath water. I'm encouraged by other kinds of biofuels, such as those made with cornstalks, and the tests being done with switchgrass. I recently read of watermelons being processed as a fuel source -- it would make good use of melons that don't pass the "appearance" test for food consumption. How sweet is that?

I don't know a lot about fuel research, but I remember when Japanese imports were called rice burners. Does anyone know if the rice stalk has ever been processed as a fuel source? (Other than sake, I'm not aware of any!)

Indygal, Switch Grass is my favorite ethanol fuel possibility. One it can be harvested more than once a growing season, two you don't have the cost to plant it for every crop. The tillage costs are very high for Corn, Sugar Beets etc, but with Switch Grass once it is planted it can be harvested over and over. I think we need to explore every possibility. We have to depend on to many other goverments for our energy needs and many of them are our enemies.  I would like to see us get started developing more of our own reserves, unfortunately if we drilled full out and tried to depend fully on our reserves we would run out pretty fast. Our energy consumption runs in the neighborhood of 7.5 Billion barrels a year, when they talk about gigantic oil reserve discoveries of 1-2 Billion, it is not as big as it seems.

Well, seems like this algae thing would solve several problems.......no planting, no using food for fuel, clearing up some pollution problems......

Quote from: pamsback on October 08, 2009, 09:19:53 PM
Well, seems like this algae thing would solve several problems.......no planting, no using food for fuel, clearing up some pollution problems......

You know algae might clear up polluted waters by absorbing the pollutant. I don't know for sure about that.  I DO know that cattails filter the water and clean up polluted water.

IF you take one of these lagoons and have a cattail bed in one end of it, and reeds along with that, the lagoon water will be clean. 
You can test the water and find life in it as well as the run off will be clean enough to use uv light on and kill off any miscreant bacterias. 

I have researched a lot of septic ideas and the cattail solution is one of the best i have seen outside of the one that is a surface system that filters the water so well that you can drink it coming out of the other end. 

I know when i had my greenhouse up, i used to buy CO2 and release it into the greenhouse.  The plants eat it up and grow like crazy. 

I just don't think we should put all our eggs in one basket.  Not JUST oil, not JUST corn, not JUST algae, not JUST sugar... how about all of them?  (What?  A competitive market? To keep prices down?)  The biggest thing would be to make cars that can run on any/all of these fuel sources.

Quote from: Warph on October 09, 2009, 11:32:37 AM
Whoever comes up with the "magic exlicer" will be gazillionaires.

That's my point; why does there have to be just one "magic elixer"?  (or maybe your point was that there could be more than one and they all will be gazillionaires?)

Let's see--if they become gazillionaires---then to "spread the wealth'",Uncle Sam takes a bazillion from each one ?? How long would it take to pay off the national debt ?? Tobina, you're a college kid, what's the answer ? :)

Math wasn't my thing, but my best estimate would be... "not very long"!   ;D
Unless they all moved to a different country, or had some off-shore accounts (now I'm brining in my experience from watching too many TV shows).

See......there is good news out there...........................

Malawian boy uses wind to power hope,

By Faith Karimi
CNN
     
(CNN) -- William Kamkwamba dreamed of powering his village with the only resource that was freely available to him.

His native Malawi had gone through one of its worst droughts seven years ago, killing thousands. His family and others were surviving on one meal a day. The red soil in his Masitala hometown was parched, leaving his father, a farmer, without any income.

But amid all the shortages, one thing was still abundant.

Wind.

"I wanted to do something to help and change things," he said. "Then I said to myself, 'If they can make electricity out of wind, I can try, too.'"

Kamkwamba was kicked out of school when he couldn't pay $80 in school fees, and he spent his days at the library, where a book with photographs of windmills caught his eye.

"I thought, this thing exists in this book, it means someone else managed to build this machine," he said.

Armed with the book, the then-14-year-old taught himself to build windmills. He scoured through junkyards for items, including bicycle parts, plastic pipes, tractor fans and car batteries. For the tower, he collected wood from blue-gum trees.

"Everyone laughed at me when I told them I was building a windmill. They thought I was crazy," he said. "Then I started telling them I was just playing with the parts. That sounded more normal.
That was 2002. Now, he has five windmills, the tallest at 37 feet. He built one at an area school that he used to teach classes on windmill-building.

The windmills generate electricity and pump water in his hometown, north of the capital, Lilongwe. Neighbors regularly trek across the dusty footpaths to his house to charge their cellphones. Others stop by to listen to Malawian reggae music blaring from a radio.

When he started building the first windmill in 2002, word that he was "crazy" spread all over his village. Some people said he was bewitched -- a common description for people with perplexing behavior in some African cultures.

"All of us, even my mother, thought that he had gone mad," said his sister Doris Kamkwamba.

Villagers would surround him to snicker and point, Kamkwamba said. Ignoring them, he would quietly bolt pieces using a screwdriver made of a heated nail attached to a corncob. The heat -- from both the crowd and the melted, flattened pipes he used as blades -- did not deter him.

Three months later, his first windmill churned to life as relief swept over him. As the blades whirled, a bulb attached to the windmill flickered on.

"I wanted to finish it just to prove them wrong," he said. "I knew people would then stop thinking I was crazy."

Kamkwamba, now 22, is a student at the African Leadership Academy, an elite South African school for young leaders. Donors pay for his education.

His story has turned him into a globetrotter. Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore, an avid advocate of green living, has applauded his work. Kamkwamba is invited to events worldwide to share his experience with entrepreneurs. During a recent trip to Palm Springs, California, he saw a real windmill for the first time -- lofty and majestic -- a far cry from the wobbly, wooden structures that spin in his backyard.

Former Associated Press correspondent Bryan Mealer, who covered Africa, wrote a book, "The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind," after hearing Kamkwamba's story. The book was released in the United States last week.

Mealer, a native of San Antonio, Texas, said he lived with Kamkwamba in his village for months to write the book. The story was a refreshing change after years of covering bloody conflicts in the region, Mealer said.

Kamkwamba is part of a generation of Africans who are not waiting for their governments or aid groups to come to their rescue, according to the author.

"They are seizing opportunities and technology, and finding solutions to their own problems," Mealer said. "One of the keys of his success is ... he's never wanted to rest on his laurels."

Good one Pam!  :D

I LOVE this story!!! This is how one person can make a huge impact.

Little Soaps Satisfy Big Demand in Haiti
Non-Profit Helps Country Combat Spread of Disease With Donations of Slightly Used Soap Bars From American Hotels
By Seth Doane

CBS)  With all this worry over the H1N1 flu virus, there's a lot of talk about hygiene. Even President Obama has urged us to wash our hands. But this simple act is a global problem when one in five people live without clean water, and 5 percent live without adequate sanitation.

It's too often the case in Haiti where a worldly offering sets off a scramble. It's not for free food or medicine but soap.

Precious here, the handouts would've been trash in the United States if not for Shawn Seipler.

"I thought there would be anxiety or desperation for it, but not nearly to the degree I just saw," Seipler told CBS News Correspondent Seth Doane.

This mission to Haiti was born almost a year ago, when Seipler and his colleague Paul Till were salesmen sporting six-figure salaries.

They got to wondering about those little bars of hotel soap, which most of us use just once.

"There are 4.6 million hotel rooms across the United States," Seipler said. "We started doing the math and figured that's a lot of soap that's being tossed out."

He estimates that's 1.5 million bars hitting American landfills every day, a number so staggering it inspired them to quit their jobs and launch a non-profit called Clean the World.

They collect soap from 80 Orlando, Fla., hotels, use restaurant steamers to remove impurities and repackage the bars for shipment. Most hotels jumped right on board.

"We had this 900 room hotel that needed a place to put its slightly used amenities," said Marshall Kelberman, director of the rooms department for Orlando's Peabody Hotel. "It just felt like it was a match made in heaven."

It's a shoestring operation with an ambitious goal.

"Yes, it's about recycling," Seipler said. "It's about preventing landfill waste ... but it's also about taking those items ... and handing them to people who are dying because they don't have soap."

In Haiti, the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, disease spreads easily.

Garbage clogs gutters, fills rivers and seems to suffocate life.

Worldwide, 2 million people die every year from diarrhea, often caused by poor sanitation. Most are under the age of five, 8,000 children in Haiti alone.

Studies suggest simple hand washing could cut those deaths by up to 30 percent. But that's not as simple as it sounds.

In a market in Cap-Haitien, a woman sells soap for a little less than a dollar a bar, which doesn't sound like much, but you've got to consider that three-quarters of Haiti's population lives on less than $2 a day.

Some students here may sing about soap, but their school's headmaster says those lessons are often lost at home.

"Because it's just too expensive?" Doane asked headmaster Jayce Dortelus.

"It is; they can't afford it," Dortelus said.

So far, Clean the World has distributed 60,000 bars.

While it's only a dent, it's had a big impact on Seipler's spirit.

"It was crystal clear," Seipler said while tapping his head. "But it wasn't until we came here until it really got into the heart."

Hope by the handful in a place where just a sliver is reason to cheer.

The windmill builder used a nail fastened to a corncob as a screw driver. This is a story of determination, ingenuity and focus that tells me not all is lost for humanity, there is still hope. Thanks for sharing, Pam!

Indy, I heard the soap story on NPR yesterday as I drove to Independence. It reminds me of the little girl in NY a few years back who began collecting odd gloves and mittens to pass out to the homeless she saw on the cold winter streets. People all over the country started sending her odd gloves.

'Imagineer' touts geothermal energy invention
By Azadeh Ansari
CNN
     
(CNN) -- Hidden under a quaint resort 60 miles northeast of Fairbanks, Alaska, lies a treasure trove of potential energy that's free and available 24/7.


"Imagineer" Bernie Karl and his wife, Connie, own Chena Hot Springs Resort near Fairbanks, Alaska.

Karl, 56, likes to call himself an "imagineer."

Using imagination to fuel his engineering ambitions, this tenacious thinker and self-starter has figured out a way to generate electricity using water that's the temperature of a cup of coffee -- about 165 degrees Fahrenheit.

"There's more opportunity now than there has ever been in the history of man, but we have to reinvent ourselves," Karl said.

Karl was determined to reinvent the way he consumed energy after he and his wife, Connie, purchased the Chena Hot Springs Resort from the state of Alaska in 1998.

"After we purchased the hot spring, I couldn't believe it, the swimming pool and the hot spring were being heated by diesel fuel, 1,000 gallons every month!" Karl said.

To slash costs and to use resources that were right under his nose, Karl invented a portable geothermal power plant.

In a little more than three years, Karl and his wife have severed the facility's dependence on diesel fuel and have saved $625,000, he said.

He says he's partnered with the Department of Energy to fund half of a $1.4 million exploration project to find and characterize the geothermal resources at Chena Hot Springs, he said.

"It's a model for what you can do," said Karl.

Karl developed his tenacity from growing up as the sixth child of 16 siblings on a farm outside of Peoria, Illinois.

He said his parents taught him hard work, how to recycle his clothes and shoes, and how to compost food and farm wastes.

In the late 1970s, Karl was active in gold mining in Alaska's Central District, and he established the state's largest recycling facility in 1984, he said.

Many of his ideas stem from finding alternative ways to use and reuse resources he already has at his fingertips.

After acquiring the 400-acre resort, Karl began trapping water from the underground hot springs, which produce enough power to heat the facility's greenhouses year-round.

Most recently, Karl has turned his invention into a separate business by contracting with Peppermill hotel and casino in Reno, Nevada, to build a similar system there.

His portable geothermal generator units cost from $350,000 to $375,000, each with the potential to generate enough power for 250 average American homes per year.

'Hot taps'

His energy-generating machine lies on a flatbed truck and can be hooked up to oil and gas wells or other heat-emitting sources to generate electricity.

Karl adds a branch connection to an oil or gas pipeline, and the process begins when he "hot taps" into waste water coming through the pipes.

The hot water enters the tubes of an evaporator encased in a common refrigerant found in many air conditioning systems.

As the hot water passes through the evaporator, it begins to boil the refrigerant in the casing surrounding the tubes. The heat given off by the boiling refrigerant then causes an attached turbine to spin, which jump-starts a generator, producing electrical power.

Next, cooling water enters from another source, recondensing the vapor refrigerant into a liquid.

A pump pushes the liquid refrigerant back to the evaporator, so the cycle can start again.

The difference in temperatures drives the entire "binary system." This setup works exactly the opposite of a refrigerator.

"Chena Hot Springs is home to the lowest-temperature geothermal resource to be used for commercial power production in the world," Karl said.

"Oil companies don't drill wells for water, but they have some 5,000 kilowatts of geothermal power at their disposal in unused oil wells. Let's pick the low-hanging fruit and use the wells we have for oil for geothermal power," he said.

Citing a 2007 Massachusetts Institute of Technology study, Karl said harnessing just 2 percent of Earth's internal energy could provide 2,000 times more energy than the entire planet currently consumes -- all free of polluting greenhouse gas emissions.

"Everything goes back, there is no pollution, no smokestack," he said. "We are going to go recycle oil wells and recycle water and put it back in the ground."

Sizzle from the center of the Earth

Though Karl's lower-temperature approach is new, for more than a century, people have been trying to generate electricity from the heat that sizzles from the center of the Earth -- using it to cook, bathe and for electricity.

In fact, the word "geothermal" comes from the Greek words geo (Earth) and therme (heat).

"We've determined that heat mining can be economical in the short term, based on a global analysis of existing geothermal systems, an assessment of the total U.S. resource and continuing improvements in deep-drilling and reservoir stimulation technology," said MIT professor Jefferson W. Tester.

In a 2007 study, professors at MIT found that mining the huge amounts of heat that reside as stored thermal energy in the Earth's hard rock crust could supply a substantial portion of the electricity the United States will need in the future, probably at competitive prices and with minimal environmental impact.

"... if we just drill deep enough, most of the U.S. can be transformed into a huge geothermal power zone while drastically reducing the nation's carbon footprint," the MIT report said.

Widespread geothermal power fuels electricity in a couple dozen countries, with the small island nation of Iceland leading the pack.

An unusual abundance of geothermal sources creates 30 percent of Iceland's energy, according to its National Energy Authority.

"Imagination is so important," said Karl, whose resort houses 65 employees and can house 210 guests at maximum capacity.

"If Bernie Karl, one of the smallest mom-and-pop operators in the world, can do these things, then why can't all of us?"

Been there, seen the hot springs. Rustic and nice. He had a great idea, but ya gotta have the natural resource to make it work.

Speaking of resources, the guy partnered with Dept of Energy for $1.4 million.
Well folks, that $700,000 that the gov't had no business giving away, no matter
how good the project sounded.  

There's a lot of gov't money being spent on alternative energy sources even
though oil & natural gas are available and easy to use.      

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Quote from: Diane Amberg on October 14, 2009, 09:33:06 PM
Been there, seen the hot springs. Rustic and nice. He had a great idea, but ya gotta have the natural resource to make it work.

My intent is more about showing how people are takin advantage of their INDIVIDUAL handy resources to make a difference instead of pushin one or the other Diane. I'm tired of the crotchety, negative on the other threads and wanted to let a little positive in so it ain't so oppressive in here. Red, I don't give a shit what the government is or isn't "supporting" that isn't what this is about either.

That's why I chose this one..I have heard a lot about these "subscription" farms and was researchin it. I think it is a good idea.

Community Supported Agriculture in the Ozarks
By Katherine L. Adam
NCAT Agriculture Specialist
kadam@ncatark.uark.edu
   
Community Supported Agriculture, or CSA, represents a direct connection between the consumer and a local, small farm. A community of individuals pledge support to a farm so that the farmland becomes, either legally or spiritually, the community's farm, with growers and consumers providing mutual support and sharing the risks and benefits of food production. Members or shareholders of the farm or garden pledge in advance to cover anticipated costs of the farm operation and farmer's salary. In return, they receive shares in the farm's production throughout the growing season, as well as satisfaction gained from reconnecting to the land. Members also share in risks, including poor harvest due to unfavorable weather or pests.

In the Ozarks, typically, small farmers solicit customers for a CSA, rather than a group of customers hiring a farmer and renting land. Shares are typically secured well before the growing season begins.

In the Northwest Arkansas part of the Ozarks are three CSA farms: Wildfire Farm, operated by Marcie Brewster and Diane Schumacher, at Huntsville (Madison County); Charlotte's Ranch, operated by Mark and Linda Scarano, in Fayetteville (Washington County), west of I-540; and the Heifer Ranch, operated near Perryville by the non-profit Heifer Project International, on the fringes of the Ozarks, near the Arkansas River, Little Rock, and Conway.

Wildfire Farm has been in business several years and serves Carroll, Madison, and Washington counties. Experienced gardeners Marcie Brewster and Diane Schumacher provide seasonal vegetables to 10 shareholders. Fayetteville shareholders pick up weekly at a designated central location. Shareholders are welcome to come out and visit the remote, isolated farm to view the gardens, swim, or perhaps spend the night in a yurt. E-mail at wildfirefarm@mailcity.com

Charlotte's Ranch, operated for the past two years by Mark Scarano and Linda Tichenor with assistance this year from Sarah Spurrier, provides produce twice weekly from May to October (about 26 weeks). Shareholders pick up at the farm, located on the historic Cato Springs Road in SW Fayetteville, in the shadow of Mt. Kessler. Share prices begin with a half share ($250) for one person all the way to the El Grande share (7 to 10 people) at $570/season. A Benton County pick-up site is being arranged. Charlotte's Ranch is certified organic by Arkansas Certified Organic (Mountain View, AR 72560). See the website www.charlottesranch.com

The Heifer Ranch CSA, operated on the grounds of the Perryville headquarters of Heifer Project International under the direction of gardeners Chuck Crimmons and Andy Olson, serves the Little Rock and Conway areas. (I can personally attest that the site has the requisite rock outcroppings to qualify as still being in the Ozarks.) Area families or individuals can purchase a share or half-share of garden produce, which is then delivered to a local drop off spot in the central Arkansas area every week during the growing year (approx. 26 weeks of delivery, from late April to the end of October). Harvest includes organic vegetables, flowers and herbs, as well as a weekly garden newsletter with information and recipes. Shareholders can volunteer to work in the gardens and experience first hand the rewards of freshly grown produce for a reduced rate. Contact the gardener, Chuck, at Heifer Ranch for more information and how to sign up. (501-889-5124 x3650).

Sixteen CSA farms currently operate in Missouri, 2 of them in the Ozarks (southern MO). They include:

Autumn Lane Farm, Springfield, serving Greater Springfield, Greene, and Christian Counties, is operated by the Ison family. (417) 833-2072.

Berger Bluff Farm, Berger, MO, is in its 12th year of subscription farming (CSA), serving families in the St. Louis area. This is a certified organic farm with historic log buildings on-site. Bbfarm@fidonet.com

Other CSA farms in Missouri serve St. Louis, Columbia, Jefferson City, Kirksville, Greater Kansas City, and north central Missouri.

See USDA's National Agricultural Library website www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/csa for a national database of CSA farms. See the Robyn van En Center website www.csacenter.org for further information on the CSA concept.
 

Cool idea, Pam.  My parents are involved in a "food coop" group.  I don't know all the details, but basically people from the city put food orders in, and the group of farmers that are involved then fill the order and deliver it.  The list of food items they can order from will differ based on season and availability, but it's a good way for farmers to band together to offer many types of products.  Heck, my parents even sold a bunch of their squash this summer!

Pam, I was agreeing with you totally! Every area that has a specific resource should use it. There can't be one "fix" for everyone. Where they exist, thermal resources are wonderful, but not everyone can tap into it affordably. For some, solar power will become even more important, as will wind and water power. Like it or not,for some areas it will need to be nuclear and for some coal and oil  will still be important for as long as there is any than can be affordably tapped.

You know something, Pam,...(??) while I was reading your post, my thought went to the Amish community and the Mennonites.  They pretty much lean that way.  Sowing, reaping and taking care of themselves and others.  I really enjoyed that post.
Jo

 :) Jo, I started this thread because the BAD news is what always grabs the attention and people get to thinkin there is nothin good happenin anywhere. There is a LOT of good in this country that has nothing to do with the government really. The politicians set up there in their castles and think they are runnin things but they really aren't, they are just a bunch of buffoons makin a lot of noise while out here in the real world there a millions of people quietly goin about the business of making their world a better place to be. It just doesn't make the news. There is enough dark......people need to see there is hope and kindness and good in their world. It's there...we just have to turn around from the dark to see it.

People making a difference: Gunnar Swanson
An Iraq war veteran has dedicated his life to helping children affected by conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
By David Conrads | Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor
from the October 5, 2009 edition

Cameron, Mo. - What would impel someone to leave a good job and a great life in the Florida Keys and move to rural Minnesota in a snowstorm in February?

For Gunnar Swanson, it all started six years ago, when he was serving in Iraq with the 957 Multi Role Bridge Company of the North Dakota Army National Guard. One afternoon in 2003 he found himself aiming his M-16 rifle at a young Iraqi boy, warning the child, in a strong, nonverbal way, not to come any closer. The boy froze in his tracks, a puzzled look on his face, then ran off.

In his 12 months in Iraq, which included surviving a close call from an exploding rocket-propelled grenade, this experience was one that affected Sergeant Swanson the most.

Just three months earlier, the same scene would have played out in a completely different way. Then, Swanson and his fellow soldiers enjoyed frequent contact with the local children – talking with them, picking up some Arabic words, taking pictures, giving the kids candy and food, and buying souvenirs and ice from them. For the troops, these encounters were a reminder of home and an invaluable morale boost.

But as violence increased and insurgent activity escalated, more and more Iraqi children were coerced, sometimes threatened, into joining insurgent groups, who then used them against the American soldiers. With kids now representing a potentially dangerous or deadly distraction, all contacts with children were ordered to stop.

"Pointing a gun at a child, threatening to shoot him," Swanson recollects. "I was 25 years old at the time, and it has weighed pretty heavy on me ever since then."

Swanson left Iraq in 2004 and was discharged from the Army the following year, but his thoughts kept returning to the children he had seen and the cycle of violence in which they seemed to be trapped. Civilian life took him on a circuitous route that eventually landed him in what, for many, would be a dream job: training dolphins at a marine mammal educational center in Florida. For two years Swanson enjoyed every aspect of his job and his life, but it wasn't enough.

"I joined the military to serve my country, protect those who can't protect themselves, and to make the world a better place," he says. "I still wanted to do that even though I was out of the military. I was living a great life in Key Largo, but I knew that training dolphins wasn't my mission in life. My mission is to help these kids over in Iraq."

Persistence, serendipity, and a little help from Google led Swanson to the perfect outlet for his passion: War Kids Relief (WKR), a nonprofit organization in Northfield, Minn., that works on behalf of children in Iraq and Afghanistan who have been deeply affected by war. Economic opportunities there are extremely limited, even for those few lucky enough to graduate from high school, making young people easy targets for the Taliban.

After several conversations with Dina Fesler, president of WKR's parent organization, Children's Culture Connection, and a visit to Northfield, Swanson took the position of program manager. The job meant living in Northfield, so Swanson left Florida and moved to a house on a farm outside town.

Swanson's first order of business was planning and organizing "A Soldier's March for Peace," a 1,000-mile walk that started on July 4 in Dallas and recently ended on Sept. 11 near Northfield. Its purpose was not only to raise money and awareness, but to get children involved. Along the zigzag course, Swanson and Ms. Fesler (who followed in an RV) stopped and spoke to some 30 youth groups – YMCAs, summer camps, after-school centers – about the plight of children in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"He's kind of a tough guy on the outside, but he really is able to let his vulnerability shine through," Fesler says. "He's not afraid to be who he is."

"If I could use one word to describe Gunnar, I would have to say 'passionate,' " adds Chad Pedersen, who served with Swanson before and during the 957's deployment to Iraq. "He is passionate about helping those kids, and anything he gets excited about, he just pours his heart and soul into it."

With his bald Yul Brynner pate, warm personality, and 100-watt smile, Swanson is a big hit with children. In Cameron, Mo., 16 grade-school children at the YMCA respond enthusiastically as they learn the names of far-off cities like Baghdad, Kirkuk, and Sulaymaniyah. He tells them his first name has nothing to do with being in the military: He was named for his great-grandfather. (Gunnar is a Scandinavian name that means "brave soldier.") The children seem pleasantly surprised to discover that children in Iraq and Afghanistan, despite their severe hardships, also play soccer and computer games.

After a short talk, Swanson and Fesler pass out paper, pens, and art supplies, and the children write letters to their peers in the two war-torn countries. "A kid over in Iraq or Afghanistan who has received a letter from a kid in the United States will probably hold onto that letter for the rest of his life," Swanson tells them.

In all, 2,700 letters were collected and will be distributed sometime next year. "We really didn't want it to be just a walk," Fesler says later. "We wanted to turn the walk into something larger where we could really showcase why we are doing this and how we want children in America brought into this."

Money raised by WKR will go to building a rehabilitation and job-skills training center in Mosul, Iraq, and a vocational training center in Khost, Afghanistan. WKR partners with local groups in both countries.

Swanson's 1,000-mile walk and his encounters with children were also intended to inspire the children to undertake their own fundraising. Along the way, all manner of lemonade stands, bake sales, carwashes, and other efforts sprang up, contributing to WKR's project.

As more funds come in, Swanson hopes that construction can begin on the projects. "[The children] can feel like they're building the youth center in Iraq and the vocational center in Afghanistan," he says.

I put this on the enlightenment thread and thought it was good for here too. I'm NOT afraid of the future....maybe it will be leaner...maybe not. Remember tho change means we are still alive and growing....when you stop moving...THAT'S when you start dying.

"My enlightenment today is slightly political in nature. I'll probably put it in politics too. I was thinkin about all the panic about our country. All the doomsdayers saying our country is done, that terrible things are fixin to take over and it made me remember a saying I read once. It's a saying of the Cheyenne people...it goes "No nation is defeated until the hearts of it's women lay on the ground..." Now most of the women I know pooh pooh the naysayers and say this too shall pass! Their hearts are nowhere NEAR the ground! If the women aren't giving up...why would the men? I say great days are ahead.....may we leave the darkness and seperation of the past behind us and move forward into the future with the confidence, courage and strength of our ancestors.

Smile :) you're American and the future is brighter than you think!"

One Man, Many Butterflies
October
16

Another wonderful story showcasing the strength and power of one person...and many, many butterflies:

An Escondido man with a passion for the bright orange-and-black monarch butterfly will play a key role in the restoration of the butterfly's winter home in Mexico's Sierra Madre as a result of a binational initiative announced this week at Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's climate summit in Los Angeles.

With the backing of California and Mexico officials, Bill Toone's local nonprofit environmental group ECOLIFE Foundation is aiming to plant 1 million trees a year in the lofty mountain range where an estimated 750 million monarch butterflies winter.

"We're trying to repair decades and decades of damage," Toone said, in a telephone interview Thursday. "Trees are leaving illegally at a very unsustainable rate."

Toone, a conservation biologist who celebrated his 54th birthday Thursday, said 200,000 to 250,000 oyamel fir trees are cut down every year in the range's 140,000-acre Monarch Butterfly Biosphere Reserve by people in nearby villages seeking wood for cooking and heating. And he said another quarter-million or so trees are cut down for sale in a black market believed to be supplying paper mills.

Toone figures he can't do anything about the black market, but with some help his group can do something about the fuel-wood factor.

And, so, he has proposed planting 200,000 trees a year outside the reserve specifically for the purpose of supplying families with fuel for cooking meals and heating homes. Toone said the success of that effort will depend on donors worldwide.

But he said the reserve reforestation project will get a big boost from the binational agreement announced by California Environmental Protection Agency Secretary Linda Adams and Mexican officials.

California officials are banking on the reforestation initiative helping the state meet its mandate to lower emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases by 2020 to what they were in 1990.

Besides ordering the industry to reduce emissions, California plans to let factories, power plants, oil refineries and other large polluters reach their targets, in part, by buying so-called offsets. Companies would get emissions credits for pumping money into projects that slash greenhouse gas emissions.

Toone's tree-planting initiative is one of those projects that California corporations will be able contribute to.

Source: North County Times

I hear a lot on here about worthless people........very few people are truly worthless.......sometimes they just THINK they are and all they need is a little kindness and for somebody to treat them like they matter to find out they do and to find the way they have been is NOT the way they have to be.............

Dustee Hullinger
A Woman with Gifted Hands
By Shirley Brosius
www.shirleybrosius.com

With Gifted Hands, Dustee Hullinger reaches out to people traumatized by life's experiences. The art and evangelistic program serves about 200 people each week at shelters, HIV/AIDS residences, community centers and churches in New York City. Volunteer artists offer workshops such as jewelry making, painting, cooking, drawing and woodworking.

"I have the God-given ability to work with people who have 99 percent going against them, find the one percent they have going for them and begin to work forward from that point," Dustee says. "I do not give up easily, and I see the best in everyone."

During the last eleven years, Dustee has produced 33 programs, including courses on character and life skills development, which are offered at 17 locations. Married and the mother of two, Dustee serves on the compassionate ministry staff of The Lamb's Church of the Nazarene in Times Square.

Born in North Dakota, Dustee grew up in Michigan. At age 13, she dedicated her life to God at a youth camp service, and mission trips challenged her. She dreamed of becoming a missionary or an archeologist—any profession that would facilitate traveling. God opened the door for her to become a flight attendant.
Then in 1993 doctors recommended Dustee give up her work due to injuries that caused back pain. A Make a Difference in Your World conference motivated her to work with the homeless, even though at that time she wondered what she could possibly have in common with them.

A cross-country move to New York City led Dustee to The Lamb's Church, where she told homeless men of God's love as she soaked their feet. Her desire to be the hands and feet of Jesus grew, and she developed an art and design class for young mothers at a homeless shelter.

As she taught in the inner city, Dustee noticed results. Wounded people developed self esteem. Battered women found community. And leaders emerged from those who had felt disempowered. Dustee solicited funding to offer art programs in the shelter system.

Dustee eventually joined the church's staff. Through the compassionate ministry, she has offered art and socio-drama workshops and invited the homeless and needy to join singing groups. She married Jim Hullinger, financial administrator of the church, and together they developed Pathway to Wholeness, a discipleship program for men.

Although at times Dustee felt as though she walked into a field of landmines as she worked with dysfunctional people, she persevered and became a woman with a mission—to help those who could not help themselves. Rather than becoming a missionary to Africa, as she had once dreamed, Dustee found her mission field in the concrete jungle of New York City.

According to Dustee, worship services and art programs held at shelters develop relationships, plant seeds and create a bridge to connect people to Christianity.

"If we don't step out and start these type of outreaches, people in these situations will never find the Lord," she says. "They are so fractured by life complexities. They are guilt ridden and feel unworthy to step into a church. They live in a survival mode."

God continues to give Dustee many opportunities to share about her work, and her ministry has invested seed money to start 13 programs in Africa.
With a patience level far above the norm, Dustee continues to fulfill Jesus' directive in Matthew 10:42: If anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward. And she motivates others to start similar programs. You can visit her web site at giftedhandsnyc.org.

I rarely ever write to my congressman/woman.  However, I did write to my Congresswoman from my district voicing my disapproving thoughts on Obama's health care bill.  I thought it was a wasted effort as she was new and probably would not respond.  The positive side?  A few weeks later she actually did send a letter, albeit a form letter, but a letter just the same stating she was happy to hear my opinion on this matter and would "take it under advisement." 

Pretty neat.

The downside?  She is a democrat and will probably vote along party lines.

But, hey, she did respond.

Larryj