http://www.casttv.com/video/hxjnhs/amnesty-bill-cnn-news-lou-dobbs-video
Yeah, well the Democrats will be there to bail out Tyson too, if and when
"another" opportunity to help immigrants ever comes.
By the way, it's looking like there's American's working at Tyson, even
if they can't seem to get along with each other very well..........
http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/221178-judge-says-redneck-comments-not-proof-of-discrimination-case-against-tyson-dismissed
Anyone who votes for and supports that amnesty bill should be hung for treason. People caught trying to cross the border illegally should be repelled like any other foreign invader. I am so sick and tired of seeing these lowlife s.o.b's who can't even be bothered to learn to speak the language.
Where do you see them? I didn't think Elk County would tolerate illegals. You don't hang them?
Diane, we had a monster hailstorm through here a few years back. Several crews of non-english speaking Mexican men spent all summer re-roofing the entire area. Nearly every house, school and church got a new roof. I didn't see anyone talking about illegals then. Just get it done for the least amount of money. They worked hard up on those roofs from early morning to dark, not a local among them. I think that when they aren't useful is the objection that everybody has. Whenever Ted and I would visit his kids in Texas, you always saw the grunt-work being done by Mexican men and women. I suspect that many were illegals, getting paid bottom dollar. What do you all think?
Pam, Diane, Dixdogs, ya'll are so right. We should just stop with our immigration laws and policies. We should stop with the border patrol and security. What are we thinking..trying to secure our borders. We should just let anyone and everyone who wants to enter our country come in. Afterall, this is supposed to be a free country. How dare we limit the numbers of people trying to get here. What message are we sending to the world when we would rather see our actual citizens employed instead of thousands of immigrants who don't even consider America their country?
While we are at it, why don't we just stop with the enforcement of ALL laws? Afterall, isn't just so unfair to criminals to be prosecuted for crimes they commit? I mean, they are just trying to make a better life for themselves. Who are we to say that they have to do it a certain, legal way??
P.S.- Please note the exteme amounts of sarcasm that are dripping from this post.
Why did you put my name in there? When have I ever said anything to make you think I'm pro illegals? That makes me ANGRY!!!!! You are going to create a reputation for me that I don't deserve! STOMP, STOMP, STOMP, STOMP, SLAM!
Lets just let everyone in from the other countrys, no passport,no background check and watch jobs for the american people be taken by the illegals. As far has Howard, there was a crew a few years back that was doing roofs in elk county and no spoke english but they did a great job. They cleaned and picked up all the nails and singles that were missed. I sometimes wish they would have done our roof.
It is like this, it looks like no one cares about America any more, they just want to sit around a grip. If we do not change what is going on in two year and 3 1/2 years, America is in trouble.
As far as putting names in a post, I guess if you did not have an opinion on every post you would not have to worry about it. 8)
....YOU LIE.....
who lied? whoever it was, that "you lie" comment will require an apology and quite possibly a resolution of disapproval from the forum...
Show me the posted rules, and I might agree. That comment was not said as an intrusion on the visit of a hallowed body by a dignitary. That comment was spoken as an honest expression of outrage to an undeserved remark by a very ignorant person, one who does not understand a citizen from an illegal, one who speaks from both sides of their mouth. >:(
Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle Barack! liars and ignorant people? how rude!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 26, 2009, 10:33:07 AM
Where do you see them? I didn't think Elk County would tolerate illegals. You don't hang them?
Gee, could it be that I included your name in my rebuttal because of the sarcasm you expressed in your post? By the way, Hillbilly had an excellent question, who lied?
Sixdogs, could you please elaborate on who exactly here does not understand the difference between an illegal and a citizen, and how said person speaks from both sides of their mouth?
Pam, you are absolutely right, I didn't like your post, however that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. The one thing about it that rubbed me the wrong way was your comparison of illegals to me.
Quote from: pamsback on September 26, 2009, 09:54:23 PM
The fact of the matter is they are NOT all criminals or gangbangers, MOST of them are just like you ,me, billy, or any OTHER person on the forum who just wants to support their family and are willin to do whatever job they can get to do it.
A huge difference between myself and the illegals that you speak of is that I am not breaking the law by working here. I have a LEGAL right to work and live in this country seeing as how I am a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
Varmit,
Don't you know by now that others can blow things out of proportion, use sarcasm, call others they disgree with ignorant and all kinds of other things---but YOU are not allowed to voice your opinion without being jumped on. They are baiting you buddy.
Pam, I haven't jumped down anybodys throat, and am sorry you feel that way, but if thats the way you want to play it, fine.
Jarhead, I know, and too a fault I am a sucker for it every time. However, in their "baiting" they expose their own ignorance and eventually their true colors. There are some on here that complain from time to time about criminals and then go on to say things like "I don't care if they are illegal or not, so long as they are working.." which says, to me anyway, that person has a total disregard and contempt for what America is.
Quote from: sixdogsmom on September 27, 2009, 08:13:14 PM
Show me the posted rules, and I might agree. That comment was not said as an intrusion on the visit of a hallowed body by a dignitary. That comment was spoken as an honest expression of outrage to an undeserved remark by a very ignorant person, one who does not understand a citizen from an illegal, one who speaks from both sides of their mouth. >:(
A quote from Elk County's own Nancy Pelosi
Quote from: pamsback on September 28, 2009, 07:08:02 AM
I do have a problem with criminals...by which I mean MURderers,THIEVES, rapists, CHILD molesters, METH DEALERS, drug dealers period. A guy who comes across the border just for a better life now instead of six months or a year from now when it will be too late and won't matter anymore may be a criminal TECHnically but that's it.
Ok, technically child molestors murderers, thieves, rapists are criminals too. Why are child molesters, murderers, thieves, rapists and ILLEGALS, criminals. **HINT** They have one thing in common. THEY BREAK THE LAW!!!!!
IT IS A CRIME TO CROSS THE BORDER ILLEGALLY, it IS A CRIME TO WORK IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY! THe fact that their ILLEGAL means THEY ARE COMMITING A CRIME. ILLEGAL vs LEGAL OR LAWLESSNESS vs ADhering to the LAW.
There is no gray area in that!
QuoteI will defend his right to do so because I would do the very same thing if I was in his shoes and so would YOU whether you will admit it or NOT.
WHAT RIGHT? A illegal has no rights to work or live in this country! To obtain those "Rights" you speak of you either are a citizen, OR you go through the LEGAL process and ask permission and get granted Permission to work or live in this country. Outside of that they have no rights. IF they want rights do it the Correct way.
Quote
I find most of the human race and THEIR stupidity VERY tiresome...I find hate,predjudice, religious intolerance and all the OTHER wonderful habits of man very tiresome and irritating. I find terrorists tiresome, irritating and TOTally retarded in their thinking. I don't let that keep me from seein a man who just wants to give his kids a better life than he and their mom had in Mexico or wherever tho, who is so desperate he will risk jail or dying to get it for them. So rag me all you want,
First of all, no one is being predjudiced, or discrimination by requiring people to live by the rule of law. That is what this country is founded on.
Secondly i know you have said in the past that the white man is illegal and that the only ones who have any rights here are indians and the indians got screwed and it was white mans fault. Poppycock. The simple fact is the indians were too stupid to see the writing on the wall.
For one thing here was a land vast in resources that wasn't being utilized. Secondly there was no land ownership so it was free to the taking for anyone that could hold it. Third, They couldn't stop fighting amonst themselves between nations over petty territories and organize together amonst themselves to fight the soldiers. When they weren't trying to kill off or backstab the few white men that were their friends they were taking on a superior force individually. If they had all come together and fought as one they would have at least made it a stalemate and had a voice.
I find it ironic and really funny that you have lamblasted the white man for how they took over. The indians let a few ILLEGALS into the country now didn't they! What happened? OMG the illegals Aka white man took over and Damn what happend, the indians got put on a damn reservation. Sheesh who would have thunk it!
Now your advocating Ohhh let the illegals in cause they ahve a family! Hmmm Give us another 20 years i figure we'll be put on a reservation too!
Quote from: pamsback on September 28, 2009, 11:27:51 AM
QuoteSecondly i know you have said in the past that the white man is illegal and that the only ones who have any rights here are indians and the indians got screwed and it was white mans fault.
Anybody who has read anything I've said knows I was USING that position to try to make a point so if you are gonna QUOTE me GET IT RIGHT.
The Native Americans DID get screwed. You using the tired old " well they weren't using it to it's potential" makes me want to puke. How would YOU like it if some gomer came over to YOUR little chunk of America and said "Screw you bud, I can use this place better than YOU are usin it. It has untold resources that ONLY I can make full use of..so get out" I'm not going to argue native issues with you. I am also not gonna back down.
No they were too busy screwing each other to worry about someone else coming in and taking what they had. They were no different than the "white man". They essentially screwed themselves out of what they had. If they had used some cooperation and common sense they could have averted the inevitable. Since they had no land ownership in their culture then they can't have been screwed out of anything. Your not going to argue native issues because there is no argument there. I've posted before too, about the natives being just as backstabbing and greedy as the white man was. so they were technially on even ground there! Just that they couldn't get their act together and work together with other tribes.
Someone could try and come take what i have but then they would have to pay me for it. Uhmm thats because The white guys back in 1776 thought of that and fixed it so that no one can just do that.
Quote from: pamsback on September 28, 2009, 11:24:03 AM
kinda be KARMA then wouldn't it.
I wasn't talkin to YOU either.
Karma? What your having no problem with criminals breaking the law?
Just throwing in my 2 cents...
Increasingly, the issue of immigration is becoming a flashpoint. I think for two reasons. First because our economy is in the toilet and second, because of the trend towards globalization. A lot of the conservatives here on this forum and many of the independant types are pretty staunch supporters of tougher immigration enforcement. What you don't realize is that your own leaders are the ones that allow the illegal immigration to continue.
The liberals get blamed, but they don't really do much about it one way or another. It's the conservatives that have been in power when the problem has been at its worst. Its the conservatives that initiated the drive toward amnesty. Why you ask? Money. You see, the conservative leadership is in bed with big business. Their interests are to make a buck no matter what affects it has on society. Thats capitalism in it's purest form. Everything goes to the wayside, your jobs your family, your well being just to make some cash. You come to the forums preaching the greatness of capitalism but then you complain when you have to deal with the consequences. Illegal Immigration, Ponzi schemes, economic downturns, shortages, etc. The corporation has too much power and sway over the government
As for Native Americans, one thing we have to realize is that they were naive in trusting the white immigrants to their land. We can't change what happened, and i don't think it's possible to correct the wrongs that have been done to them. I think that illegal immigration hurts the Native Americans living in the USA just as much as it hurts anyone else.
Another random thought: While i don't like illegal immigration, many of the people who come here do so to work and send money back to wherever they came from. (Yet another drain on our economy) IT should be said that classifying all immigrants as gang members and hardened criminals is a logically flawed argument that is intended to stir up racial prejudice and fear. Do not be so blind as to allow yourselves to be manipulated by the powers that be.
Quote from: pamsback on September 28, 2009, 01:11:59 PM
blah blah blahQuote from: srkruzich on September 28, 2009, 12:16:11 PM
Quote from: pamsback on September 28, 2009, 11:24:03 AM
I wasn't talkin to YOU either.
But i was talking to you!
QuoteQuote
Karma? What your having no problem with criminals breaking the law?
Deliberately misrepresenting what somebody says does not make you right. I don't like you, I wasn't talking to you, thru you or about you so go play big bad with somebody who will be impressed or intimidated by you. I hope you dislike ME enough to do just that.
How do i misrepresent you? Your the one who makes the statements! Not me! I only can take what YOU say and YOU SAID that YOU didn't care if criminals come in as long as they have families that depend on them. That's what YOU said.
So how am i misrepresenting what YOU SAID.
AS far as my liking or disliking you, your not that important to me to occupy my mind with a like or dislike. I don't intimidate anyone or play big and bad. Don't feel the need to do so :) and as far as impressing you? You have got to be kidding. Unless you have something I want, I don't waste the effort. And you have nothing I could ever want that bad.
And no i won't stop commenting on your posts just because you aren't able to give a rebuttle other than blah blah blah. That was pretty juvenile you know, my kids used to do that when they were young teenagers and didn't care to express themselves intellegently
Good post Anmar, thanks!
Quote from: pamsback on September 28, 2009, 02:24:06 PM
kruzich, the blah blah blah was in reference to HEARD it ALL before. As for the intelligent expression part I just figured it would be wasted on you.
Since you aren't going to take a hint.....I have a problem with criminals.....REAL criminals like murderers, thieves, drug dealers, child molesters etc.....
I don't have a problem with Juan or Julio or Jose etc etc etc comin across the border and getting a JOB. You don't like that position.....I DON"T CARE.
I DON"T have a problem with Juan or Julio or Jose etc etc etc comin across the border and getting a JOB
I DON'T have a problem with Juan or Julio or Jose etc etc etc comin across the border and getting a JOB.
Ok we are clear on this, You DON'T have a problem with someone breaking the LAW.
Rule #3: No biting, kicking, or using sharp objects. ;D
Larryj
Quote from: larryJ on September 28, 2009, 02:57:24 PM
Rule #3: No biting, kicking, or using sharp objects. ;D
Larryj
No sharp objects? awe shucky darn. :D
Quote from: srkruzich on September 28, 2009, 02:49:56 PM
Ok we are clear on this, You DON'T have a problem with someone breaking the LAW.
Weren't you one of the people cheering when Tiller was murdered?
Ease up everyone... Take a breath and back off a little.. Argue your opinions.. but leave the personal jabs alone..
(http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj417/Shar_dreamer/Real%20Characters/ppp10.gif)
Uh Oh!!! Cheese it! It's the fuzz!!!!!!
Shuckydarn?
Larryj
Doh,
Teresa i was just getting into it!
Quote from: Anmar on September 28, 2009, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: srkruzich on September 28, 2009, 02:49:56 PM
Ok we are clear on this, You DON'T have a problem with someone breaking the LAW.
Weren't you one of the people cheering when Tiller was murdered?
nope i was the epitomy of apethy when he died. didn't care one way or the other.
Quote from: larryJ on September 28, 2009, 04:42:03 PM
Uh Oh!!! Cheese it! It's the fuzz!!!!!!
Shuckydarn?
Larryj
Lawman come to town. Check out her long arm there!!! >:D I shot the sherriff, but i did not shoot the deputy!!!
Just for the record let me say that I wasn't baiting anyone, I was stating my opinion. If you don't like it, fine. Secondly, I don't classify all immigrants as criminals, only those who break the law.
It is not the fault of capitalism that we have illegal immigration. It is the fault of our government for not securing our borders as well as not enforcing our immigration laws. To say that it is because of conservatives is wrong. It is a democrat/republician problem, not a conservative one. I don't think that it really matters though, they all need to be replaced.
Also, Yes, I was cheering when Tiller was murdered. I didn't see it as murder, I saw it as justice.
Quote from: Varmit on September 28, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
Just for the record let me say that I wasn't baiting anyone, I was stating my opinion. If you don't like it, fine. Secondly, I don't classify all immigrants as criminals, only those who break the law.
Agreed
QuoteIt is not the fault of capitalism that we have illegal immigration. It is the fault of our government for not securing our borders as well as not enforcing our immigration laws. To say that it is because of conservatives is wrong. It is a democrat/republician problem, not a conservative one. I don't think that it really matters though, they all need to be replaced.
Well its not all the governments fault, The laws are in place, there is some good folks that try to enforce it but to be honest i lay it at the feet of those who don't have a problem with hiring criminals who are breaking the law and those who look the other way when they see someone breaking the law.
Quote from: Varmit on September 28, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
Also, Yes, I was cheering when Tiller was murdered. I didn't see it as murder, I saw it as justice.
Some would say it was tillers KARMA that got him!
I shot the sherriff, but i did not shoot the deputy!!!
Written by Bob Marley, first released on the Wailers album, Burning, later covered by Eric Clapton.
Shuckydarn?
Larryj
Quote from: larryJ on September 28, 2009, 09:12:02 PM
I shot the sherriff, but i did not shoot the deputy!!!
Written by Bob Marley, first released on the Wailers album, Burning, later covered by Eric Clapton.
Shuckydarn?
Larryj
Its a old OLD slangword meaning aweeee Geeeze......
Quote from: Varmit on September 28, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
Also, Yes, I was cheering when Tiller was murdered. I didn't see it as murder, I saw it as justice.
So when someone crosses the border to make some cash, thats a crime but murder is ok? Is it racism, convenience, or just plain hypocracy that sways your judgement?
Quote from: Anmar on September 29, 2009, 12:03:18 AM
Quote from: Varmit on September 28, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
Also, Yes, I was cheering when Tiller was murdered. I didn't see it as murder, I saw it as justice.
So when someone crosses the border to make some cash, thats a crime but murder is ok? Is it racism, convenience, or just plain hypocracy that sways your judgement?
Ok...once again for those that weren't paying attention...when someone crosses the border to make some cash it is a crime if they crossed I-L-L-E-G-A-L-Y...are you with me so far?? If not, let me know and I will slow down.
As for Tiller, I personally, view his death as justifiable homicide considering the thousands he has killed. However, this is not a thread about abortion and I am not going to discuss that here.
Yeah, I know (kinda) what shuckydarn means. I was just playing around and it is old because I hadn't heard the expression since I was a child. But, thanks for clearing that up.
Getting back to Billy's opinion --- If someone enters this country illegally, that is a crime. If they are caught, they are sent back. If they commit a crime such as the ones mentioned, then they are punished (if caught) and then sent back. Anyway, you look at it, they are breaking the laws of this country.
Having said that--------Over the years that I have lived in SoCal, I have hired people to put new flooring in my house, I have hired a handyman to renovate the bathrooms and kitchen (tile and a new bathtub). I am not 100% sure that they were here legally. Two of them brought their wives with them to help out and both wives could not speak English very well. I have hired two brothers who spoke limited English to put in a new sprinkler system for both front and back yards. I am not sure that they were here legally either. What I am sure of---------------------They all did outstanding work. They were not here to rob, con, or kill anyone. They were here to make a living and provide for their families. I count them as friends, although once they finished the job, they moved on. But, if someone were to ask me for a recommendation, I would call these "friends" and tell them that work was available.
So, yeah, there are good ones and bad ones, and if they came here illegally, well, that's a crime. But, I would hate to see these "friends" get caught and sent back. It would be a loss to our economy.
Larryj
P.S. My spellchecker didn't know what "shuckydarn" was, either.
QuoteHaving said that--------Over the years that I have lived in SoCal, I have hired people to put new flooring in my house, I have hired a handyman to renovate the bathrooms and kitchen (tile and a new bathtub). I am not 100% sure that they were here legally. Two of them brought their wives with them to help out and both wives could not speak English very well. I have hired two brothers who spoke limited English to put in a new sprinkler system for both front and back yards. I am not sure that they were here legally either. What I am sure of---------------------They all did outstanding work. They were not here to rob, con, or kill anyone. They were here to make a living and provide for their families. I count them as friends, although once they finished the job, they moved on. But, if someone were to ask me for a recommendation, I would call these "friends" and tell them that work was available.
So, yeah, there are good ones and bad ones, and if they came here illegally, well, that's a crime. But, I would hate to see these "friends" get caught and sent back. It would be a loss to our economy.
THANK YOU :)
Quote from: larryJ on September 29, 2009, 08:14:21 AM
Yeah, I know (kinda) what shuckydarn means. I was just playing around and it is old because I hadn't heard the expression since I was a child. But, thanks for clearing that up.
Getting back to Billy's opinion --- If someone enters this country illegally, that is a crime. If they are caught, they are sent back. If they commit a crime such as the ones mentioned, then they are punished (if caught) and then sent back. Anyway, you look at it, they are breaking the laws of this country.
Having said that--------Over the years that I have lived in SoCal, I have hired people to put new flooring in my house, I have hired a handyman to renovate the bathrooms and kitchen (tile and a new bathtub). I am not 100% sure that they were here legally. Two of them brought their wives with them to help out and both wives could not speak English very well. I have hired two brothers who spoke limited English to put in a new sprinkler system for both front and back yards. I am not sure that they were here legally either. What I am sure of---------------------They all did outstanding work. They were not here to rob, con, or kill anyone. They were here to make a living and provide for their families. I count them as friends, although once they finished the job, they moved on. But, if someone were to ask me for a recommendation, I would call these "friends" and tell them that work was available.
So, yeah, there are good ones and bad ones, and if they came here illegally, well, that's a crime. But, I would hate to see these "friends" get caught and sent back. It would be a loss to our economy.
Larryj
P.S. My spellchecker didn't know what "shuckydarn" was, either.
Yeah but you know, no one has said they don't do good work, or don't work hard. you know folks raise hell if a company hires an illegal worker, and fines the crap out of them and makes them pay a penalty for violating the law yet they want to give the illegal a free pass to violate the SAME law just because they have a family. That's just pure hippocracy.
I see your point. However, I believe that when a company hires an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law. If I hire an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law. If I were running for public office, I could be rejected because my gardener is not a citizen and is in this country illegally. But, I am just the "good ole boy" down the street that needs some work done and this guy (illegal?) is very good at what he does, at least, that is what the mayor of the city told me after the guy did some work for him. So, I ask--------------Where does the line get drawn? The company gets fined because they have an obligation to do background checks on those they hire. I don't have the resources or time to do that, so if the guy is good, he is hired, no background check. If I catch him stealing, he's fired. If I am really upset at him, he's arrested and sent back to where he came from. So--------Where does the line get drawn?
Larryj
Quote from: larryJ on September 29, 2009, 10:05:00 AM
I see your point. However, I believe that when a company hires an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law. If I hire an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law. If I were running for public office, I could be rejected because my gardener is not a citizen and is in this country illegally. But, I am just the "good ole boy" down the street that needs some work done and this guy (illegal?) is very good at what he does, at least, that is what the mayor of the city told me after the guy did some work for him. So, I ask--------------Where does the line get drawn? The company gets fined because they have an obligation to do background checks on those they hire. I don't have the resources or time to do that, so if the guy is good, he is hired, no background check. If I catch him stealing, he's fired. If I am really upset at him, he's arrested and sent back to where he came from. So--------Where does the line get drawn?
Larryj
I think the line draws itself when it becomes apparant that the worker is here illegally. They know the law says they cannot work unless they have permission or are a citizen so they knowingly violate the law. They also jeapordize anyone that will hire them especially if they do so by deceiving others into hiring them. Here we have a man that has a family and crosses illegally into another country, deceives others into hiring them. What good is this? Its nothing but lying, deception, and willful violation of law. In the very least it shows that they have no character in that thier willing to do anything legal or illegal to obtain money. Doesn't matter that they are trying to find work to take care of their family what matters is what they have no character to stand up for what is right.
IF a man goes into a grocery store to steal food to feed his family is it justified? No its not. So why is violating the laws concerning working legally in this country so acceptable?
Your way of thinking or call it your rationale is right on. There should be no line, just be here legally and don't be here at all. And I agree with that. That is it, in black and white. Unfortunately, the country will go on doing what they always do and there is not much chance it will change to yours and my satisfaction. I, personally, will probably keep on using the same people I always use because I like them and they do good work. But, you and I and others here know what is legal and what is not.
Gotta go, the honey dew list is piling up.
Larryj
Ok.. I wasn't going to post in politics but I have a view to add to this post. I grew up in Howard in Eureka and then moved to Emporia my freshman year of highschool. Talk about a culture shock. The first day of school I asked a hispanic kid when a class was and he told me "no english". I didnt understand what he meant. Finally a kid tapped me on the arm and told me he didn't speak english. My neighborhood is surrounded my hispanic people and I have since learned a lot about the "mexicans". I don't think it is right that they are working in this county illegally, however they do work hard for their money. Are companies are just as much to blame for them working here, I know one family that the father worked at tyson and and they were all here illegally, Tyson actually tells their illegal employees that when INS comes in they are to go willingly and that they will charter a plane for them in a few days. If you go to the grocery store on Tyson paydays, there is a line at the western union window sending their paychecks to Mexico. Is it right? No. But I can see both points, Companies get cheaper labor and the Mexican can feed his family
Hang on Cheyenne--- it's gonna be a bumpy ride! I agree with you and Whammy that I cannot really blame the illegals for coming. It's when they come, and are hired by people like Tyson, and the beef processings plants out west, that know they are undocumented, and don't care. Some work under slave wages and slave conditions. The American worker conditions do not apply, after all they are here illegally aren't they? Meanwhile, the big bugs are rolling in the dough, the Wallmart shoppers are happy with the price, and the illegal sends home the cash for his family. I really am aghast at the amount of drugs that come into this country, the amount of arms that exit this country and the amount of ho-hum at the borders there is. I would be in favor of easier work permits, with HEAVY penalties for smuggling drugs in and arms out. The people here doing grunt work, should be able to do it legally; there aren't many lined up in front of the motels complaining that Chiquita took away their job changing sheets and cleaning rooms. And their aren't many complaining that Pancho took their job picking vegetables. Faced with a starving family, I would certainly do the same as the illegals. Les Miserables made a big impact on me when I was young, as did Grapes Of Wrath. Read the books, the movies are pretty watered down. During the hard times of the depression, my folks lived for awhile in a whitewashed chicken house on my Great Aunts farm. Those were hard times, much like the Mexican people are going through in their own country.
So it boils down to-------------------------You are welcome to our country as long as you work hard and keep your nose clean, send your kids to school so they may learn our language and help you to learn also. Pay your share of the taxes and don't break the law and in a few years when you are ready, take the citizenship test and become an Ameican citizen.
Am I dreaming?
Larryj
Exactly. Can anybody on here HONESTLY say that facing the same situation that you wouldn't do the same thing. I don't approve of the smuggling activity nor do I approve of them working illegally but I can't say that if my kids were going hungry I would not do what it takes to feed them if working in a country illegally to afford food was how I could feed them.
You are wise beyond your years, Cheyenne. Any mother or father would do what it takes to take care of their family. If you and they are starving and have no prospects of earning money and the grocery store is right across the street, would you refrain from stealing from that store because it is against the law, the American law, in a country where you are not a citizen and therefore don't have to abide by it laws? I guess committing a crime in order to take care of your family such as stealing or shoplifting is okay, maybe. Smuggling drugs, or people, or committing gang war attacks--------------that's a no-no. Is that where to draw that line?
Larryj
Larry, I thank you for your kindness to Cheyenne. For myself, I would not hesitate to rob, cheat, steal or otherwise to feed my children if there were not a way to do it within the law. It is our moral responsibility IMHO, to see that such a thing can never occur in this country. Depressions occur when the balance of wealth gets out of whack; too much at the top, and the poor people suffer. Too much at the bottom, and the wealthy suffer. Ha! Ha!
:)
Just because we live in modern, liberal and socialistic times, it's never right to rob, cheat, or steal.
Not right but understandable, because we live in ANY time...we have families...and we KNOW what WE would do to take care of them.
I am not saying that it is right. I am just saying that I can say the reasoning. However, if it did come down to me having to break the law to feed my children I would still be subject to punishment just like everybody else is. You do the crime, you pay the time... isn't that the American way? If caught they should be punished because when people break the law they make everybody elses taxes go higher. I know the that the crime rate is much higher in Lyon county than it is in Elk county... I don't know if that is because of our immigrant population or not but I suspect that it might be.
PS 37: 25
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
Quote from: Cheyenne on September 29, 2009, 06:56:42 PM
Exactly. Can anybody on here HONESTLY say that facing the same situation that you wouldn't do the same thing. I don't approve of the smuggling activity nor do I approve of them working illegally but I can't say that if my kids were going hungry I would not do what it takes to feed them if working in a country illegally to afford food was how I could feed them.
Yes i could.
Luk 12:24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Luk 12:26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
Luk 12:27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Luk 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more [will he clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
Right now i live by what God gives me. He's not let me starve nor has he let me do without what i NEED. sometimes he even gives me a want.
Oh BTW if ya don't think God would provide for someone that needed food for their families , not that long ago we had someone on here that had a really major need in their lives and God blessed them and provided everything for them that they needed and even provided much more than was asked for!
Guess I look at this two ways. Yes, God promises to provide our needs. Yes, if it was only myself to be concerned about, I can wait. However, if I have two or three small children that are hungry, I'm afraid I'd do whatever I had to to provide food for them, NOW not later. Remember, God also forgives everything but murder.
Quote from: flo on September 30, 2009, 03:19:40 PM
Guess I look at this two ways. Yes, God promises to provide our needs. Yes, if it was only myself to be concerned about, I can wait. However, if I have two or three small children that are hungry, I'm afraid I'd do whatever I had to to provide food for them, NOW not later. Remember, God also forgives everything but murder.
Well God even forgives murder. But the point is that he provides. There is no reason to do something illegal to obtain food for your family.