More on the public school mess in America........
Obama betrays blacks in D.C.
-Walter Williams
Instead of President Obama addressing school students across the nation, he might have accomplished more by focusing his attention on the educational rot in schools in the nation's capital. The American Legislative Exchange Council recently came out with its 15th edition of "Report Card on American Education: A State-by-State Analysis." Academic achievement in no state is much to write home about, but in Washington, D.C., by any measure, it approaches criminal fraud. Let's look at the numbers.
Only 14 percent of Washington's fourth-graders score at or above proficiency in the reading and math portions of the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) test. Their national rank of 51 makes them the nation's worst. Eighth-graders are even further behind with only 12 percent scoring at or above proficiency in reading and 8 percent in math, and again the worst performance in the nation. One shouldn't be surprised by Washington student performance on college admissions tests. They have an average composite SAT score of 925 and ACT score of 19.1, compared to the national average respectively of 1017 and 21.1. In terms of national ranking, their SAT and ACT rankings are identical to their fourth- and eighth-grade rankings – dead last.
rest of the story:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=109890
Red, I usually agree with Mr. Williams, however, this time I do believe he is full of crap. I have never agreed with gov't grants to "low income" families for private education. I don't think it is a money problem. I believe it is a parental and teacher problem. The public school system would produce educated children if the parents actually gave a damn and made their children learn...if the teachers that are hired actually WANTED to teach and not just draw a paycheck...and if the standards were actually raised instead of lowered.
And another thing, claiming that obama "betrayed" students simply because he is black is moronic. I am so sick of the race card being played that I could just scream. Poverty and a lack of a good education are not racial problems. How many families in Elk county are at or below the poverty level? And yet their kids still manage to get a decent (I won't say that it is a great one) education.
Damn Varmit!! I have to agree with you!!! What the hell?????????????? ;D :laugh: I don't feel so good........................ ;)
Statistics are hard to use in DC when it comes to identifying education of their blacks. Their lows are very low in the "bad" sections of DC, but the number of college educated, well employed blacks is very high too. More than half the city is black and minority so the numbers are skewed when someone wants to play with statistics.
That may be true Diane, but this is something that is nation wide. How many times have we heard parents, teachers, and various liberal groups screaming about the poor, minority children not being able to get a good education? Or about how standardized tests are racially biased? Or about the violence that occurs in minority populated schools? And their reasoning is always the same, "the gov't isn't giving enough money to our schoold district". Instead of placing the blame where it belongs, that is with the parents and teachers of these minority schools. All you have to do is go into these "bad" sections of town to see these peoples mindset. Most of these neighborhoods look the same. They are trash ridden, drug addicted, prostitution rampant, waiting on their welfare check, give me something for nothing havens. And unfortunetly that mindset is projected onto their children. How many of these parents actually sit down with their children after school and help them with their homework? I don't mean doing the homework for their children, but teaching the child to do it for himself? How many of these kids are allowed to turn on the T.V. or video games, or go shoot hoops immediatley after school? How many of the children in these neighborhoods are allowed to drop out because "I don't need no schoolin' I gots mad skills on da' court, yo!" instead of parents applying the under used method of "foot to ass" and making their children actually learn something?
Varmit, I agree with your first post up to the point when you state that the students of Elk County don't get a great education. Have you checked out the grade card for West Elk School District? Our students are well above the state norm for the Kansas state assessments. Both grade schools have received Standards of Excellence for the past several years in both reading and math. Elk County should be extremely proud of those accomplishments!
This is a tough one. Another Catch-22 situation. Race aside, I would say I agree with poverty levels and low education going hand in hand (in large cities...). People who live in poverty areas probably live there because they can't (or won't) get a job. Therefore, their kids suffer from similar mindset about education (love the quote, Varmit). And what teacher in their right mind would WANT to teach in an environment like that?
I don't know how "poverty" is calculated, but in Elk County you have to also take into consideration that the cost of living is also very low compared to the rest of the state. "Poverty" should be a calculation of both gross income and cost of living. Then Elk County probably wouldn't rank so low. Also, like skating or gymnastics, they should also throw out the top and bottom percentages to get a better acurate average.
Gina, I get what you are saying. However, saying that students are preforming above the state norm loses its punch when we look at how low the "norm" has fallen. It seems that year after year our children are being held to a lowering standard instead of a rising one. Through no fault of their own our students are being dumbed down by an educational system that lowers the goals for students to achieve instead of making those goals a challenge, which require deterimination and hardwork to reach. If private school is so much better, why aren't public schools being held to the same or even higher standards?
The norms, according to No Child Left Behind ( Brought to us by the Bush Administration), increase each year. And by the year 2012 one hundred percent of all school children should be performing on state assessments at the meets standard level, which that score increases each year also. So I am not too sure about your statement that educational systems are dumbing down the system.
Increases each year, reallly?? If that is the case why do we have kids that are graduating high school yet are unable to read above an 8th grade level? Who don't know their states and capitals? Are lost in math without a calculator? Who can't write a paper without the aid of spellcheck or the internet?
I can't believe that I'm siding with Billy on something.
Reading levels are being addressed at the upper levels, teachers look at the testing results and use those indicators to determine which areas are weak and address them. As far as mathematics, I don't know if you have ever seen in the paper how many of West Elk students are on the math relay teams and that West Elk students ALWAYS end up on top at these contests! With regards to states and capitals, I learned them in fourth and fifth grades and I know that they are still being taught at those levels. That information will proabably benefit me the next time I'm playing trivia or on Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader. The spelling issue is so funny, because I was just talking to my mother the other night about how great of a speller I was when I was in school. I was runner up for Elk County and got to travel to Topeka to watch the State spelling bee. Nowadays, I struggle with my spelling, because I rely too much on spell check. It has become a crutch for our whole techno-friendly society.
People and students both rely on crutches way too much. The advancement in technology used in the schools would have been great if the time and effort saved had been used on some other teaching. We had a conversation at bible study the other night about how a highschool graduate in 1900 was closer to a PHD than a highschool graduate now is to the 1900 graduate on a highschool level. I really think that our youngsters are not challenged enough, so underchallened in fact that when faced with a real challenge in the real world, they tend to crumple. And OMG, Billy, I must say that I too agree with you. :o :o
Gina, let me help those at the upper levels and the teachers who are trying so desperately to solve the reading problem...GIVE THE CHILDREN A FREAKIN BOOK...then have them read said book out loud and then see how...many...of ...th..them...re..re..read...like...this. I have seen some of the books that my children bring home and are to read 20 minutes every night. It is no wonder that kids can't read worth a crap. Some of the drivel that is being passed off as being "on their level" an embryo would get bored with. As I said, lowered standards.
As for the states and capitals, if we follow the logic of "eliminate what they aren't going to use" we could eliminate biology, I mean after all how many people actually need to know the make up of a plant cell? Geography..I can't remember the last time I actually needed to know the make up of the earth or where on it Asia is.
Kudos to the West Elk students on the math rely teams. Why aren't the rest of the students able to perform at that level??...Don't get mad, that was hypothetical. But I think you can understand the point I am trying to make.
I, as a teacher, find each child's reading level and let them know what their levels are so that they check out books that correspond with their reading level. And yes I hand them books withing their reading levels and say read it to me. I listen to children read daily. But there is only so much I can do. I can't go home with them to make sure they do their homework or their nightly reading.
I know as a teacher, I challenge my students daily. I hear a lot of "That's too hard", "I can't do that". And my response to them is one of encouragement. Failure is not an option! But once again, a lot of students may hear this at school and not at home.
I would never "eliminate" any curricular material. I was simply trying my stab at humor with my comment regarding states and capitals. Reminder to self: next time insert smiley face or lol! I teach states and capital; continents and oceans; and yes plant and animal cells. As a matter of fact my students just recently drew and labeled parts of both plant and animal cells. ;D They were also quizzed over all continents and oceans.
Like I said in my orginal post, Varmit, I agree with the majority of your original post with exception to the quality of Elk county schools. I am very proud to have graduated from West Elk, I am very proud to teach at West Elk, and I can't think of anywhere else that I would want my children to go!
No worries Varmit, no anger here. But in response to your hypothetical question, "Why aren't the rest of the students able to perform at that level?" with regards to the Math relays. The Math relays are mainly made up of students that are working beyond grade level and are a challenging activity for them. Not all students are able to work at that level in Math, just like I am unable to play basketball to the level of Michael Jordan. LOL! :) We each have our own talents.
Look at it this way. In the USA when i was in school, advanced kids are taking Algebra in the 8th grade. California is now pushing to have 80% of it's students in Algebra by the 8th grade by next year. They probably won't achieve it. We can sit here and argue which state is better at what subject but does it really matter when kids in singapore are learning algebra in the fifth grade?
Quote from: gina on September 18, 2009, 03:52:50 PM
Not all students are able to work at that level in Math, just like I am unable to play basketball to the level of Michael Jordan. LOL! :) We each have our own talents.
I agree, personally, when it comes to math, anything beyond simple algebra and I'm lost. History, Lit., Government, were more my favorites. Science, math, chemistry, I hated expotenially. ;D
I was trying to make the point that children are not challenged or pushed enough. As for the "reading level" bit, my take on it is that if a child is reading at his grade level, that is fine, in the 1st and 2nd grade. If a 3rd grader is reading at his level with little difficulty then he should be given 4th grade material.
Anmar, I have heard that agrument before. That our schools suck and japans (or wherever) are the best. I disagree, based on the condition of their country. By that I mean if their schools were so much better than ours, why is our country in better condition?
Quote from: Varmit on September 18, 2009, 04:30:19 PM
Quote from: gina on September 18, 2009, 03:52:50 PM
Not all students are able to work at that level in Math, just like I am unable to play basketball to the level of Michael Jordan. LOL! :) We each have our own talents.
I agree, personally, when it comes to math, anything beyond simple algebra and I'm lost. History, Lit., Government, were more my favorites. Science, math, chemistry, I hated expotenially. ;D
I was trying to make the point that children are not challenged or pushed enough. As for the "reading level" bit, my take on it is that if a child is reading at his grade level, that is fine, in the 1st and 2nd grade. If a 3rd grader is reading at his level with little difficulty then he should be given 4th grade material.
Anmar, I have heard that agrument before. That our schools suck and japans (or wherever) are the best. I disagree, based on the condition of their country. By that I mean if their schools were so much better than ours, why is our country in better condition?
define condition, How do you measure a countries condition? GDP? happiness? some people even use average height. I'm not sure that our coutnry is in better condition, but i can't prove it to you until you tell me the manner in which you measure condition.
Varmit, it sounds like some some teacher challenged you in math and chemistry and you didn't like the challenge because it wasn't "easy" for you." Did you rise to the occasion and meet the challenge? Or did you just call the teacher "bad." Did your parents ask for help, ask for extra work, have you tutored? "Hating" subjects is no excuse. (poke, poke...welcome to a teacher's world.) As far as elementary reading goes, here the reading programs slide, so once kids are comfortable they can and do move to more advanced reading levels.
Big cities often have hard core areas with ''generational ignorance'' problems.The parents don't help their kids with school work because they weren't helped when they were kids and neither was the generation before that and so on. Break throughs are happening, but it's in very small steps. It tends to be the grandparents who step up to try to make a difference.
Man.... this is utterly amazing. A recent survey of Oklahoma public high school students found that the overwhelming majority can't answer even simple questions about U.S. government and history. I would say In defense of the Oklahomans, a ten question test was administered by telephone to one thousand high school students. That has to be an unfamiliar format for the students, and probably not all of them gave it their best shot. Still.... ummmmmmph....this is pretty grim.
http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11141949
77% Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the U.S.
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Only one in four Oklahoma public high school students can name the first President of the United States, according to a survey released today.
The survey was commissioned by the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs in observance of Constitution Day on Thursday.
Brandon Dutcher is with the conservative think tank and said the group wanted to find out how much civic knowledge Oklahoma high school students know.
The Oklahoma City-based think tank enlisted national research firm, Strategic Vision, to access students' basic civic knowledge.
"They're questions taken from the actual exam that you have to take to become a U.S. citizen," Dutcher said.
A thousand students were given 10 questions drawn from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services item bank. Candidates for U.S. citizenship must answer six questions correctly in order to become citizens.
About 92 percent of the people who take the citizenship test pass on their first try, according to immigration service data. However, Oklahoma students did not fare as well. Only about 3 percent of the students surveyed would have passed the citizenship test.
Dutcher said this is not just a problem in Oklahoma. He said Arizona had similar results, which left him concerned for the entire country.
"Jefferson later said that a nation can't expect to be ignorant and free," Dutcher said. "It points to a real serious problem. We're not going to remain ignorant and free."
Question % of Students Who Answered Correctly
What is the supreme law of the land? 28
What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution? 26
What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress? 27
How many justices are there on the Supreme Court? 10
Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? 14
What ocean is on the east coast of the United States? 61
What are the two major political parities in the United States? 43
We elect a U.S. senator for how many years? 11
Who was the first President of the United States? 23
Who is in charge of the executive branch? 29
Full report at: http://www.ocpathink.org/publications/perspective-archives/september-2009-volume-16-number-9/?module=perspective&id=2321
Yes, Diane, I was challenged in math, chem., and no it wasn't easy for me, Yes I tried to blame it on the teacher, Yes, my parents saw to it that I was given extra work and tutoring. When it came to school my parents accepted no excuses. Granted the highest math grade I got was a B, to them that was alright because they knew how much I struggled in that subject. History, Lit,. however were different stories. Anything less than an A was unacceptable.
Sorry, but I don't buy the generational ignorance theory. It is not a matter of "I don't help my kids, because no one helped me." It is more of an "I shouldn't have to earn anything, it should be given to me" attitude.
Anmar, as for the "condition" of a country...overall, its standing in the world. For example, I don't see singapore as a major superpower, I don't see Americans flocking to japan. I don't see the American standard of living or its equal anywhere else.
Billy, you still have yet to make it clear what your measurements are. By major super power, do you mean militarily? The USSR was a major super power in that sense. They ignored their economy, entered and unwinnable war in Afghanistan and look at them now.
I would argue that the quality of life index may be the most complete measure. The USA ranks 13th on that particular index. There is no doubt that we rank at the top in terms of military might and maybe the largest stock market, but thats about it. In terms of health, we are in the 35-45 range. GDP per capita is like 10th.
We're not living in the good 'ol days anymore.
I am talking about overall condition. I don't see any other nation or country being refered to as "the greatest Nation on the Planet". Yes, we have our problems, but when the world looks for examples of freedom, personal liberty, democracy, and how a country should be they don't turn towards singapore, japan, england, or france. They look to the U.S.
Varmit, It sounds like you earned your B in math because it was indeed a representative grade for you. Good for you and good for your parents for keeping on you to learn up to your potential..
Quote from: Varmit on September 19, 2009, 06:16:25 AM
I am talking about overall condition. I don't see any other nation or country being refered to as "the greatest Nation on the Planet". Yes, we have our problems, but when the world looks for examples of freedom, personal liberty, democracy, and how a country should be they don't turn towards singapore, japan, england, or france. They look to the U.S.
Thats not really true. Here in the US, we think so, but over in Germany, they think they are the greatest country in the world. Same goes for russian, norway, china, sweden, israel, turkey, Qatar, etc etc. Just about every western european nation says that. Doesn't make it true.
In terms of freedom, personal liberties, and democracy, there are several countries that are ahead of the US.
Whatever dude. Simple fact is that russia, china, germany, and any other country can THINK their the greatest country, whereas America IS the greatest. Honestly, why is it that anytime a country is in trouble they call on the U.S.?
Think what you want to about the U.S. You are certainly entitled to your opinion (in this country, anyway).
Quote from: Varmit on September 20, 2009, 09:09:06 PM
Whatever dude. Simple fact is that russia, china, germany, and any other country can THINK their the greatest country, whereas America IS the greatest. Honestly, why is it that anytime a country is in trouble they call on the U.S.?
Think what you want to about the U.S. You are certainly entitled to your opinion (in this country, anyway).
The last time a european country called in the US and the US answered was WW2.
Sure, some people can through in that Yugoslavia thing. But really, do you want to use that? i mean, you all jumped on Clinton for going there, right? Then there was our ally Georgia, they called on the US for help and suddenly Georgia found out just how much there alliances really meant and how strong the backing of the USA was. What did they get, a UN resolution?
Look, i've said it several times, give me a real concrete measurable statistic and we can talk about which country is the best at what. Sitting around making general assumptions only diminishes the credibility of the discussion.
Whoa, back to the original subject, please. (Which is NOT if/why the US is better than any other country.)
Unfortunately, I think that society today has dropped the standards for education. Blame it on "no child left behind". Blame it on technology. Blame it on the fact that most kids have 2 working parents... or just 1 parent who must work 2 jobs to support them. Or, maybe, blame it on the fact that we actually have the means and way to MEASURE a child's education and actually COMPARE it to a "national standard". That wasn't the case 50 years ago.
Also, when comparing US education to other countries' education system, there's a lot of differences. In Japan, children start going to school (real school, not just pre-school) at a very early age. Parents send their children off to school somewhere... and are usually year-round schools. They don't teach PE or sociology... they teach MATH. HARD MATH. ADVANCED MATH. To very young children. And those children probably don't have a lot of real-world education. (Which is why the U.S. foreign-exchange program is so big with Japan.)
Sorry, don't mean to bring up this dead horse again, but education is also an "it takes a village" mindset... or should be. Teachers aren't the only ones responsible for teaching kids. Parents need to be involved in the education process... and not just taking treats. They should sit and listen to their kids at night with their homework. Let kids read to them (even if it's one...painful...word...at..a..time). Grandparents should encourage kids to read to them and ask them about school. Friends of the family, people you see on the street... should ask kids about school and be encouraging to them. Parents should be involved enough to know when/if their kids are being challenged enough. More often than not, kids that were diagnosed as "ADD" or "ADHD" were really just not challenged enough at school! No one took the time to really realize how smart the kid was and that their learning curve was so much higher than the curriculum the teacher was teaching that they just became restless and disinterested. Once someone gave them the one-on-one attention and truly challenged their minds, "whoa, this kid is really smart!".
I'm also afraid that it really boils down to the teachers. Under-paid, under-appreciated, under-respected. We don't trust our own education system to teach teachers how to teach properly, so we make them adhere to certain "standards" and "programs" and not let them actually EDUCATE on their own! We rely on tests to see how the teacher is performing, rather than trusting the teacher knows their class and children enough to adjust teaching methods based on the level that group of children are at. Why have teachers at all? Why not just put kids in front of a TV or computer and make them learn everything on that (hypothetical question)? If we're not going to have a customized curriculum based on the level of the students within the class, then why have customized teachers?
Anyway, there's my 2 cents worth to try and get this topic back on track.
Kudo's, Tobina.... glad to see we are back on track of the subject. I was amazed that only one in four Oklahoma public high school students can name the first President of the United States. And then we have this. A school on Long Island has been renamed Barack Obama Elementary School in "Honor of his historic rise to the presidency." The move at the "largely black and Hispanic school in Hempstead" is among the first in what will likely be a wave of name changes around the world now that Obama has been elected president, from schools and streets to parks and mountaintops and no telling what else. Elsewhere on Long Island, the Clear Stream Avenue School in Valley Stream says it will consider a renaming resolution in December.
And parents already have been naming newborns Barack. Nothing like a newborn with the name Barack Sean O'Grady.
But ol' Bob seems to be a little upset about all of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfSW-F6dr1Q
List of places named after Barack Obama - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Schools
Kenya
Senator Obama Primary School and Senator Obama Secondary School, both in Nyang'oma Kogelo, birthplace of President Obama's father.[citation needed]
United States
California
Barack Obama Charter School — Compton, California — Qued Charter Elementary School renamed after Barack Obama in January 2009[1]
Barack Obama Academy - Oakland, California - Alternative Learning Community renamed after Barack Obama in March 2009[2]
Minnesota
Barack and Michelle Obama Service Learning Elementary * Saint Paul, Minnesota
New York
Barack Obama Elementary School — Hempstead, New York — Ludlum Elementary School renamed to Barack Obama Elementary School.[3]
New Jersey
Barack Obama Academy - Plainfield, New Jersey - Plainfield Academy for Academic & Civic Development renamed to Barack Obama Academy. [4]
Streets
United States
Florida
Barack Obama Avenue — Opa-locka, Florida — City commission approved the renaming of Perviz Avenue effective Presidents' Day, February 2009.[5][6]
Topographical Features
Antigua and Barbuda
Mount Obama in Antigua and Barbuda — renamed from Boggy Peak on August 4th, 2009, (Obama's birthday) in honor of his accomplishments.[7]
Proposed namings
Pembroke Park Road — Hollywood, Florida — portion of (or all of) road proposed to be renamed Barack Obama Boulevard[8]
Delmar Boulevard — St. Louis, Missouri — proposed to be renamed Barack Obama Boulevard[9]
Street currently named after José Antonio Primo de Rivera proposed to be renamed Calle Barack Obama, in Náquera, in the Spanish province of Valencia.[10]
Warph's "Obama's Soul Food & Pig-Pick'n Emporium" --- new restaurant to be located on the cornor streets currently named Bush Blvd. and Cheney Ave. which are proposed to be renamed Hugo Chavez Blvd. and Ahmadinejad Ave. -- Surprise, AZ
Changing street names for the current President. Hmm. Well, in 3-1/2 years they'll have to change them again... to Warph Ave, Warph Park, Warph School for the Politically challenged... ;)