I'm standing in the middle of a large letter made of stone that is visible from air, rail, and highway.
Where in Elk County am I?
Answer must be in the form of precise latitude and longitude, not just a rough estimate from another point.
A useful link is: http://mapper.acme.com (http://mapper.acme.com)
First correct answerer gets to pick the next point to identify.
Flint,
You have me stumped. I have followed the active rail line on the sat. map from one end of Elk Co. to the other and I can't find a large letter of any sort. Now it could be because I can only zoom in so far before it tells me imagery is not avail. at that level. I was really hoping to get this one. I love to browse on Google Earth so I thought this one would be right up my alley. I missed it by a longshot. I can't wait till someone figures it out.
Andrea
First place I checked was Polk Daniels, then the Moline quarry.
I am thinking it might be around one of the local air strips or at "Mount" Osage Cuestas.
There might still be a "G" on the side of the hill west of Grenola, being South
of the highway and RR. That location is not accurate enough so maybe someone
else can make a better location description.
The G was put there in the early 30's. Freshmen at Grenola had to white wash the G every year. Other groups have painted it the last several years.
Did you find it using Acme.
I have looked around the RR tracks and west of Grenola but my ancient eyes do not find it.
In the back of my mind I think I have seen it from the highway since we make many trips between Howard and Winfield when I am in Elk County.
Charles I notice very few responses from folks that now live in Elk County. Most forum members are like me and live elsewhere. If I have a question about Elk County I ask Waldo or Frawin, both who I find know more about Elk County than people who live there. (Nobody get hurt feelings that is just my opinion, I am sure some of you that live there know much about EK you just don't share it)
Charles, I think you may have read my post about my dad and my Uncle Marion Jacot and how they met working on the Kansas Turnpike and that is in part why I am on this forum. I grew up sleeping in blue print drawers, oil stained trucks, and riding asphalt paving machines all over the Midwest. You now are answering questions that I would have asked my dad. He has been gone a long time but I have very fond memories of growing up as the son of a civil engineer. It may not seem glamorous, but some of the greatest feats of man were by engineers, public works laborers, DOT workers, map makers, city planners, etc.
David
I'm in agreement with RedCliff and Delbert that you're referring to the Grenola G. If so, will you accept N37.35324 W96.47464 as being close enough? If correct, I'll defer the privilege of choosing the next site to RedCliff as being first to recognize where you were.
Sorry, been out all day.
Dan is within an 1/8 of a mile, so as he suggested, RedCliff you are up.
David,
The reason I started this was to maybe get some people back active that have taken a sabatical from the Forum as of late. And by chosing something that is able to be spoted from online maps, people who grew up here could join in, and to foster communication between people who have ties to here and their friends and relatives who still live here or have lived here recently enough to know.
Waldo,
I do admit that what I chose is a little hard to see even at the highest available resolution on the satellite view on the acme site, but again anything larger would have been pretty obvious.
Okay Red, your turn.
Charles
Quote from: flintauqua on August 14, 2009, 10:40:48 PM
Sorry, been out all day.
Dan is within an 1/8 of a mile, so as he suggested, RedCliff you are up.
David,
The reason I started this was to maybe get some people back active that have taken a sabatical from the Forum as of late. And by chosing something that is able to be spoted from online maps, people who grew up here could join in, and to foster communication between people who have ties to here and their friends and relatives who still live here or have lived here recently enough to know.
Waldo, I do admit that what I chose is a little hard to see even at the highest available resolution on the satellite view on the acme site, but again anything larger would have been pretty obvious.
Okay Red, your turn.
Charles
Charles I love the game. Can't tell you how much fun I had scanning EK at the highest resolution. I may of been at a disadvantage not knowing the area very well, but I did see a lot and always learn from those of you have been in EK since the last time I was there. Thanks I like this game.
David
if you are still looking on the acme map for the "G" try Google Earth. I finally found it!!! Ok so where is the next location? I want to see if I can figure it out first.
If this works, you should be able to see the "G" in the upper RH side of the aerial photo.
Click here:
http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=14&X=3616&Y=20679&W=3&qs=%7cgrenola%7cks%7c
All I saw was a "9." ;D
The G was my first guess. I remember seeing it when i was a kid.
Waldo, don't stand on your head when you look at it! :D
Unless you mis-typed your coordinates, you're quite aways away. Your coordinates place you about 2 miles ENE of Elk Falls, and while there is a curious shaped terrace nearby, it is not the "G" that is found just 1 1/2 miles west of the SW corner of Grenola, at N37.34565 W96.47625, or just under 1/2 mile west of what Google has labeled as the intersection of 104 Rd and 61 Rd. (This is actually the intersection of Road 4 and Cyclone). You have to be at highest resolution to see it.
Since it does seem that there is interest in this game, I propose we give the winner of this round, redcliffsw, till 9:00 pm CDT Monday the 17th to pick the next spot to search for, or let Delbert or Waldo pick one since they were next with comments about the "G".
Personally, I can't wait for the next game to start.
Charles
Okay, redcliffsw either didn't get the message, or doesn't have a spot for us to search for. So, delbert and waldo, you are up.
Charles
Carry on men.....
I will put this one on pending an entry from someone else.
However, I could not find it on Google at the best resolution.
Maybe someone can find it since the answer to this one is rather easy.
"The traffic goes by all day and I was the first in my field."
The grave of Elk County's first teacher, Frank Hobbs, at N37.50683 W96.25258. (It's marked on the topo, can't see it on arial view)
Charles
Yes,
What year did he start teaching?
From a post by Janet
"The first school taught in this section was in a log hut on a farm, on the east side of Paw Paw about two milles north of Howard. The teacher was a young man named Frank Hobbs. This was a subscription school and was in the winter of 1869-70. The following were the pupils who attended this school: Sherley Greenwood, Belle Greenwood, Ed Chirpolled, Jennie Wilder, Nancy Wilder, Geo. Wilder, Jennie Cooper, Geo. Yokum, Ella Yokum, Frank Mahurin, Sarah Mahurin, Emma Hobbs, Alfred and Ed Glidden, Nancy Cole, Leta and Mark McBee.
A year or two later young Hobbs died and was buried on his father's claim, 3 miles north of Howard. The grave is marked by a tombstone and iron fence around it, and the lone monument attract the attention of travelers on the Howard-Severy road."
Here is some more:
The school children of Elk County donated money in 1932 to build a fence around Frank Hobb's grave.
Frank Hobbs was actually the second school teacher in Elk County.
According to the Elk County history book, the first school was on Indian Creek in the northeast in 1866. That would make sense because that is the area that first started settling.
The teacher's name is unknown for that first school according to the book.
Frank Hobbs taught at the second school during 1869-70 again according to the book. It would appear that Hobbs is the "first known" teacher.
However, on another page the Elk County history says that Frank Hobbs started teaching in 1866 north of what is now Howard. That is probably an error.
At any rate, if he started teaching in 1866, that would have been Seward County.
If he started teaching in 1869, that would have been Howard County.
In either case, one can extrapolate those dates to Elk County, which came along in 1875.
Cutler's History of the State of Kansas says the first school in Elk County was taught at Howard City in 1873.
At any rate, "Kansas was the first state in the West and third in the nation to establish kindergarten training. The first public school kindergarten was at Howard, 1906." Per The Annals of Kansas, 1886-1925, Volume I.
According to the information I have, the first school in the Indian Creek community (northeast Elk County) was taught by Sallie McQuilkin in 1871 in a private home on the A.B. Nix place just west of where Rule school was later built.
Next Target!
I, a Middle Woodlander, built my hearth here during the Archaic period. I and many others used this site to manufacture items out of quarried stone. 4500 years later my hearth was unearthed during construction of a big dam.
Where, in present Elk County, was I?
N37.35460 ???
Maybe ???
Okay, I'll just give them half the coordinates and let them go from there.
how about 37.2207
Andrea,
ddurbin's N 37.35460 is correct. This one is not something obvious or out of the ordinary on the maps (other than a dam). It might require a little historical sleuthing.
Charles
From time to time during some researching, I have come across something called the Durbin Archeological Site that is supposed to be in Moline but I do not have a clue as to where it might actually be.
I don't know that I have read anything on what was discovered there.
Yes, there is a Durbin Archeological Site. Named Durbin simply because it was found on land owned by my great-uncle Jack Durbin. A bulldozer operator happened to see the hearth he unearthed as he was digging out the "core" of the watershed lake dam on the South Fork Wildcat Creek, south of the Martin Marietta quarry. Now the Durbin (or Harshman) quarry is even closer to the site.
I thought I had a copy of the archeological findings from the dig that was conducted by either KU or KSU with emergency funding so that the construction of the dam could continue. Nowadays, they would probably force the dam to be built somewhere else. When I find the document I will post more info on this site which is the first of only four sites in Elk County that is on the National Register of Historic Places.
http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/KS/Elk/state.html (http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/KS/Elk/state.html)
For now I'm using the point where the dam crosses the old channel of the South Fork of Wildcat Creek as the location of the site. This may not be exactly correct, but it can't be far off; N37.35488 W96.26006.
Waldo, you're up, unless you would like to defer to Dan, whom even though there was no collusion between him and I ::), he did still have a slight advantage over everyone else. :P ;D
Charles
P.S. To see just how much the Durbin/Harshman quarry has grown in about fifteen years, toggle between satellite and DOQ on the acme map site.
I officially disappeared from Elk County on April 2, 1949, under the signature of the governor of Kansas, but sixty years later I can still be found on some geographic diagrams.
There are rumors that no one ever died within my realm because of the supposed medicinal properties of the liquid piped directly into each of the rooms of my lodge.
When people began questioning the value of what was actually being piped into those rooms, I went downhill fast, but did not officially go away until the governor declared so.
I have a Globe connection.
Who am I and where am I located?
I don't get the Globe connection.
But I believe there is reference in a book of Daniel.
You know him too, huh?
Daniel did not mention the Globe connection.
The answer is Cave Springs at 37.5333 96.12222.
I thought, though, that the east-west road it is near was inaccessible, vacated, or closed by a gate with a sign warning to stay out. At least that is what I came across. But, maybe I was lost. Does any forum member live near the old site of Cave Springs?
Cave Springs became a major health center after the spring water from the cave springs was piped to a local hotel on Broadway Street. The hotel of 22 rooms, complete with dining facility, was owned and run by a doctor and the water advertised as having healing and restorative properties.
The hotel was well patronized by patients when the town got its start in 1875 and for several years thereafter. In fact, the doctor owned the whole town of sixty-four blocks but did sell the majority of the blocks to others. Stagecoach service came sixty miles from Humboldt, Kansas, bringing well-to-do patients to the hotel.
After things turned sour, the doctor was supposed to have tricked a local rancher out of his cattle in exchange for some land in Mississippi, which turned out to be worthless swamp land. He sold the cattle and then split. Another doctor came in but was not able to make a go of it.
I do not know the mechanics of vacating town land, but when Elk Falls vacated its public square, the town company had to get approval from the state legislature via a law before the lots could be sold.
In the Cave Springs case the governor signed an act into law in 1949 vacating "the original townsite of Cave Springs in Elk County, Kansas, and the streets and alleys of such townsite." I don't have a clue as to who might have sold the land after the state approved vacating. In the Elk Falls case, it was the Town Company.
It must have taken a long time to start the process of vacating because Cave Springs started going south beginning with the panic of 1893 and was essentially gone early in the 20th century. The post office closed in 1903.
The Cave Springs Globe was the only Elk County newspaper published other than in Longton, Elk Falls, Howard, Moline, and Grenola. However, it lasted only for one month in 1882.
This is a neat thread! There could be a book in here somewhere?
Many moons ago (about 20 years, give or take) I and some other youngins from Moline took a little trip to Cave Springs. At that time there was a very old walk-thru gate (the kind that would be chain link now) about a block, maybe two, north of the crossroads, opening to a barely discernable path down the hill and back to the south to the "spring". A seep at the bottom of a small rock overhang would be a better discription. It was the middle of summer though. There were still very prominent concrete foundations, footings, and other rubble along with jumbled up pipes. Nothing actually hooked up to the spring, but easy to determine how it once was.
Since then, I recall a change in ownership or generational transfer of the land and talk of the new owner eliminating the little walk through gate, which was the only thing marking where the path started.
Okay Waldo, who goes next?
Charles
BTW
"book of Daniel" refers to:
Fitzgerald, Daniel C. Ghost Towns of Kansas, A Traveler's Guide. Lawrence: University of Kansas Press, 1988.
Mr. Fitzgerald worked for the Kansas State Historical Society until semi-retiring to Florida.
He maintains an interesting website at: http://www.danielcfitzgerald.com/kansas_rogue_in_florida.html (http://www.danielcfitzgerald.com/kansas_rogue_in_florida.html)
Dan, jump in or I have another one.
Charles,
You really did me in. I went to Daniels website last night and then could not stop reading about Kansas Ghost Towns. I am a little tired today.
Really fascinating stuff. Reading about Union Center in Elk County. I believe in the 6th book about Kansas Ghost Towns. Mentioned a man by the name of Blizzard. The Perkins (Bill and Susie, my in-laws) have a pasture that we call "the Blizzard". I would love to know more about the history and how land changed hands through the years. It's just a name today. But it reminds you of the many generations that came to Kansas in the early years and tried to make a go of it. And that the name on that pasture has some real history.
David
Diane, go to Google Map or Acme Map and type in "Cave Springs, KS."
L. D. Blizzard had a son who was supposedly the only person to die in Elk County (actually northern Howard County) at the hands of the Osage. He was on the receiving end of a poisoned arrow. There are a number of Blizzards in Grace Lawn cemetery.
Diane, Allen's Drug Store was on the west side of the street ( now Wabash Avenue) Earl and Alice Allen were the owners and Earl was the pharmacist. They lived above the store in an apartment. I worked for them in 1947 and 1948. John Batson bought the store from Mr. Allen ( as I always called him), then bought the corner that now has Batson's Drug and Prairie Market, now owned by Julie and Patrick Perkins. The old location of the drug store is now occupied by Traci's Trends.
Thanks Jo,
Looking out the upstairs windows on the east side of Wabash, I always wondered who lived upstairs on the west side.
I also did not realize that John Batson bought Allen's.
Quote from: Jo McDonald on August 20, 2009, 11:16:43 AM
Diane, Allen's Drug Store was on the west side of the street ( now Wabash Avenue) Earl and Alice Allen were the owners and Earl was the pharmacist. They lived above the store in an apartment. I worked for them in 1947 and 1948. John Batson bought the store from Mr. Allen ( as I always called him), then bought the corner that now has Batson's Drug and Prairie Market, now owned by Julie and Patrick Perkins. The old location of the drug store is now occupied by Traci's Trends.
Jo, didn't the Allen's live above the Cafe instead of the Drugstore, there was a Stairs up the back and front just North of the cafe.
How cool!!!
Is there a date on your map?
What a treasure to have.
New Quest. It's 1904 and I've just helped Uncle John, Aunt Anne and their son Alfred move into their new home. I've decided to follow John B. L. Soule's advice, so courtesy of atsf I've just entered Elk County. Where am I? Remember to provide longitude and latitude.
John B. Soule's advice was to "Go West Young Man." Apparently Horace Greeley said it fifteen years later.
(BTW are folks aware of Greeley County in western Kansas named after Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune? Tribune, population 835, is the county seat and the only other town in the entire county is Horace, population 143. Both are on K-96.)
If Uncle John and family were coming west on the ATS&F from Fredonia via Buxton, their first arrival in Elk County would be in a caboose on a freight train at Upola, at 37.41585 95.99939. There was no passenger train that ran through Upola.
If Uncle John and family were coming west on the ATS&F passenger train from Elk City via Independence, their first arrival in Elk County would be Oak Valley, at 37.34341 96.00952.
I'm pretty sure they are traveling from Inde, and would have struck the Elk County line at N 37.32359 W 95.96442.
I know the prominent last name of Uncle John, Aunt Anne and son Alfred. What I can't figure is who the "first" person is; that is Alfred's cousin. And, were they all traveling to Elk County, or just the nephew/neice/cousin?
And since Dan seems to not pay any attention to the personal messages I send him . . . . Maybe I'll try to find the answer at Walgreens.
Charles
Congratulations you two. Together you've got it. I'm traveling west from Independence on the AT&SF railroad and just crossed into Elk County east of Oak Valley. I'm actually not related to John, Anne and Alfred, just needed to use them as a connection to Independence to give you a starting point. Charles, would you like to enligthen us as to who they are?
BTW, I did answer your pm.
Also, cousin John N. is in the area. He stopped by last night.
GEEERRR!!!! Do you know how much time I've wasted trying to figure out who in the heck ALFred LANDON's cousin was. >:( >:( ::) ::)
BTW, if you happen to know where John and Anne or buried, the political graveyard site would like to know.
Now, what perchance does Walgreens have to do with Alf Landon?
Charles
Dan,
Is there a house in Longton associated with the Landon family? Try not to go off an a "cooperative" tangent.
Charles
I think Longton's claim to fame was Arthur Capper who was a two term governor of Kansas from 1915 to 1919 and a five term US Senator from1919 to 1949. Note that Kansas governors at one time served two year terms.
Would be interesting to know if his childhood home in Longton is still standing.
Waldo, Longton city boys demolished the Capper house 3-4 years back. It was on main street and got to be such an eye sore and unsafe. Down she went !!
Well, that is too bad but better safe than sorry.
Waldo,
I was trying not to bring up Arthur Capper, as it could be a future target or clue for the game.
"Cooperative" alluded to the Capper-Volsted act, which is basically the birth certificate of the agricultural, hardware, and grocery distribution cooperative system we have today.
Too bad about his one time home in Longton. Alf Landon's in Independence fared much better when Walgreens came to town:
http://www.landoncenter.com/Default.asp (http://www.landoncenter.com/Default.asp)
Charles
Jarhead,
Is Longton's Brighton Hall still standing? If so, what is it?
Yes ,it's still standing but for how long I don't know. It was our city office and community center until a year or so back. High wind / tornado ripped off part of the roof and now part of it is the city 'kiddies wading pool" :) Last I heard they were talking about trying to get a grant and fix the ol girl up while others want her torn down. Kshillbilly probably knows more about it than me.
Quote from: W. Gray on August 21, 2009, 09:07:37 AM
Note that Kansas governors at one time served two year terms.
"This was the first election in which candidates for Kansas governor and lieutenant governor ran as a team and were elected to four-year, instead of two-year, terms.
"What year was this, and who was victorious?
Diane,
I think you got it backward.
One other note about Arthur Capper, he was the first native Kansan to serve as governor. He was not born in Longton, though. He was born in Garnett.
Waldo,
I don't know of a Kansas Governor with the initials H. J.
Diane,
Neither J.H., James Harvey or John Michael (Mike) Hayden, is correct. Though one is much closer to the answer than the other.
Charles
One of us is looking at an incorrect list of Kansas Governors. The one I have doesn't have any C.E or P.E.
Or you are using first and middle initials, my list doesn't have all of the middles.
Closer to Docking than Stanley.
I misunderstood the question and came up with Henry Justin Allen, 1919-1923.
Sorry.
I'll say Bennett from 1974 to 78.
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!!
http://www.kshs.org/research/topics/politics/essay_governors.htm (http://www.kshs.org/research/topics/politics/essay_governors.htm)
Hopefully Dan will be on soon to release Waldo or I to post the next geography hide and seek.
Charles
For the record the referenced web site says the
first election in which candidates for Kansas governor and lieutenant governor who ran as a team and were elected to four-year, instead of two-year, terms was in 1974 with Robert F. Bennett from Overland Park in Johnson County was elected governor.
Up until the 1974 election governors served two-year terms.
Bennett's lieutenant governor was Shelby Smith from Wichita.
Lt Governors served two year terms also but ran independently in the same election as the governor.
And, the result could be the governor and lt governor being of different parties much like the President and Vice President of the US could be of different parties in the early days.
A book on the Kansas Constitution says nothing about the governor and lt governor running together as a team nowadays have to be of the same party. But for all practical purposes.....
Someone with Kansas voting experience help out here.
My apologies. Didn't mean to hold up the next quest. I think I'll bend the rules a little already and pass the baton to Diane to pick the next location. She's been a great player so far, and you two have both already had a shot.
Alrighty then. Guess we'll kick it back to Waldo to find us a new spot to locate.
Sorry, I have been out for awhile.
Find and name the highest named point in Elk County, Kansas.
It has to be the hill that I can see straight west of me (Howard) at about road 8. It has a name but I can't recall it right now.
It is not straight west of Howard.
Here is what one web site says about this mystery point:
"......... is a mountain summit in Elk County in the state of Kansas."
Wilma, this may be the hill straight west of Howard you are thinking about, but I am not sure.
http://abyss.kgs.ku.edu/pls/abyss/pubcat.phd1.View_Photo?f_id=1259&f_hd=Y
I have never been to the top of this particular hill, but it looks a lot like the road down from the top of the hill at the Green Ranch. The fence in the corner isn't right for the Green Ranch and the road looks to be longer. haven't been there for more than five years, though. I am going to take another look at it. My mother's barn could be seen from the Green Ranch hill.
There is an almost indiscernible spot where my mother's barn would be, but I don't think it is the same road.
Wilma, I agree. I don't think this is the Green Ranch Hill, aka "Mt. Jesus". The divergent angle between the fence and the road, the large pond on the left, and the slight curve to the right before the road goes down into the river valley leads me to believe this is on Rock Road looking east from the environs of the Farrell and/or Roby on the left, and the Youngmeyer on the right.
I'm pretty sure this picture is from the top of the Green Ranch hill:
http://www.backroadstouring.org/kansas/index.htm (http://www.backroadstouring.org/kansas/index.htm)
Sorry, that only went to the homepage, not the picture I intended to present. Try this one:
http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_21_07/136-3616_img.jpg (http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_21_07/136-3616_img.jpg)
Waldo,
Is our target the highest point in Elk County that has a name recognized by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names branch of the U. S. Geological Survey, meaning the highest named point on a topographical map of Elk County?
Charles
Yes, it is.
That does look like the Green Ranch hill, including the sunflowers. I have seen it like that many times.
Sorry if I confused anyone. Wilma, I think you better go buy a lottery ticket, if the picture you saw was the one I thought the link went to. Apparently the link above only goes to the home page of the backroads site. Each time you click on it, A different random picture comes up. It took me 10 visits to the site before the Green Ranch came up.
Try this link:
http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_21_07/136-3616_img.jpg (http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_21_07/136-3616_img.jpg)
Charles
The one with the sunflowers looks more like the Green Ranch road to me. Is there anything that identifies the sites? None of what I got up has any identification with it.
The random picture on the home page doesn't have any identification to it, even in it's properties.
If, from the home page, you click on the word "gallery" on the top bar (second from right) it will bring up a page with a chronological listing of their tours, click on a tour and it will bring up a commentary of their ride that day, and will have the pictures they took on that ride ina gallery at the bottom. By reading their trip report, I can often figure out what roads they have been on. The photos in the gallery do not have locations in their properties either, just tagged with date of tour, and a numbering system.
I have not seen the sunflowers photo, it hasn't come up randomly for me yet. I have figured out that there are at least 151 photos in the random rotation. I have not reviewed all of their tours that include Elk, Butler, and or Cowley counties, so it's very possible the sunflower picture is of Green Ranch hill, like I said, I haven't seen it . . . yet.
Charles
Does anyone know of a digital camera that will embed the GPS coordinates in the picture data, just like they embed the date and time.
Or, did I just have one of those lightbulb moment ideas that I should have gotten a patent for?
Charles
Quote from: flintauqua on August 23, 2009, 09:46:01 PM
Does anyone know of a digital camera that will embed the GPS coordinates in the picture data, just like they embed the date and time.
Or, did I just have one of those lightbulb moment ideas that I should have gotten a patent for?
Charles
http://www.ricoh-usa.com/solutions/solution_features.asp?pCategoryId=85&pSubCategoryId=81&pProductId=761&pCatName=Camera+Imaging&pSubCatName=Ricoh+500SE+Imaging+Solutions&pProductName=Geo-Imaging&tsn=Ricoh-USA
http://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/products/2006/08/post_7.html
Thanks, David.
Tech changes so quickly. I used to take Computer Shopper, and try to keep up on things. Of course Quantex and Comp USA was still going then. :P
Charles
Quote from: flintauqua on August 23, 2009, 10:19:11 PM
Thanks, David.
Tech changes so quickly. I used to take Computer Shopper, and try to keep up on things. Of course Quantex and Comp USA was still going then. :P
Charles
You are welcome, Charles. I thought you had a great idea. I had to delete my first link.
http://www.uspto.gov/
Since I (we?) have gone off on a branch or two, to get back on the mainline for those playing the game and just tuning in, here is our target:
Quote from: W. Gray on August 22, 2009, 09:51:41 PM
Find and name the highest named point in Elk County, Kansas.
Sorry for the diversions.
Charles
ok I thought I might be able to get back into the game with this last location, but when I research online everything I find requires payment. I used to have a gazeteer but when I moved I gave it and all my other KS maps away. I am enjoying the game but I will admit I don't know a whole lot about Elk Co. So for now I guess I will continue to watch and learn some things as we go along.
Forgive me for straying again, but I need to tell Charlie how to find the picture that I have been referring to.
Charlie, try going back to your reply # 77 where you lined out a link. Use the lined out link, then click on Backroads Touring at the far left, top of page. The sunflowers come up with a biker in the middle of the road about to run over you. You have made me homesick to drive over that road again. It used to be the shortest route from home to our pasture over here and to my mother's farm.
We had a discussion on the forum some time ago concerning Mount Osage Cuestas in Elk County, the highest officially named point in Elk County. Just wanted to see how many members remembered or if new members were aware of the area. Prior to the previous discussions, I was considering it to be the highest point in Elk County.
During that discussion, Dan found that there were higher points in Elk County, some over 200 feet higher. A number of these higher points are near Osage Cuestas and some are in Union Center Township. Not sure why Osage Cuestas receives such prominence, but it is mentioned on several web sites and is shown on most maps.
To add some confusion, a good part of the eastern and southern area of Kansas is in a geological region also called Osage Cuestas. A slim exception in the local area is eastern Elk and Chautauqua counties and western Wilson and Montgomery counties, which are in a geological area called Chautauqua Hills.
After our previous discussion, I contacted the Kansas Geological Survey to find out why Osages Cuestas received top billing in view of the many other points in Elk County that are higher. They came back with a response that was something to the effect that the United States Geological Survey made the call.
There are other higher points in the Osage Cuestas geologic region so I don't have a clue as to why a high point in Elk County has that particular name.
If you have Google Earth, type in "Osage Cuestas" and it will take you there. Acme Maps should do the same.
It is about six miles north of Grenola and is southwest of Howard. 37.42503 96.45862
And even the USGS can't seem to put the right name on it. Since Mount Osage Cuestas was named (I don't know when, but it was on a 15 minute quad in 1921, spelled with a Q) the prevailing scientific thought of where the Osage Cuestas end and the Flint Hills begin has changed.
From a post of mine in the Good Old Days:
QuoteIn the conterminous United States there are 84 Level III Ecoregions. Ecoregions differ from each other based on physiological traits such as topography, geology, climate, flaura and fauna, etc. I don't know how many places in the country lie where three or more of these 84 regions intersect, but in Kansas there are only seven out of 105 counties where three different regions exist:
Meade County in SW Kansas, Marshall and Jackson counties in NE Kansas, and Chautauqua, Elk, Greenwood, and Woodson counties in SE/SC Kansas.
The three Ecoregions that are present in each of CQ, EK, GW, & WO counties are:
28 Flint Hills (no level four)
29 Central Oklahoma/Texas Plains (Level 4 - a. Cross Timbers)
40 Central Irregular Plains (Level 4 - b. Osage Cuestas)
All of this can be verified at: ftp://ftp.epa.gov/wed/ecoregions/ks_ne/ksne_front.pdf
As you will see when you go to this link, Mount Osage Cuestas is now in the Flint Hills! At least in the collaborative natural science of ecology: "These phenomena include geology, physiography, vegetation, climate, soils, land use, wildlife, and hydrology. The
relative importance of each characteristic varies from one ecological region to another. . ." The USGS and Kansas Geological Survey were two of the collaborators and the citation for the map actually uses the USGS as the publisher, so I guess they must be in agreement with the other agencies that are more concerned with flora, fuana and hydrology.
Charles
Part Two
I would sure like to see the original USGS surveryors notes on this one. Why was this particular spot named? Today is might be refered to "Middle Eagle Head" as it divides the two forks of the Caney River, each of which drain the East and West Eagle Head Ranches. Today the whole area is called "Eagle Head". And Mount Osage Cuestas isn't even the highest or most prominent point on Eagle Head.
Anyone else with thoughts or observations on this PLEASE join in.
As for who's next in the game, I'd like to make a suggestion. Dan, Waldo and I have posted all the targets so far. I would like to have someone other than us three post the next target. Only rule is it has to have a latitude and longitude attached to it, so it can be located on a map. Can be any type of place name, feature, or just a spot; modern-day or historical it doesn't matter.
Hope Waldo and Dan don't object.
Charles
Okay,
I'll give it till mid-afternoon tommorrow for someone (other than Waldo, Dan and I) to post a new target. After that it's up to Waldo as to who goes next.
Charles
Dan,
Go for it.
As an aside, some folks might want to contribute if they did not have to post coordinates?
Okay, here we go. There will be a clue-a-day until someone identifies the location. No coordinates needed. (Charlie, you can't play)
Seen easily from above
But not from the ground.
I'm oval in shape;
Not round.
Can I mislead or drop obtuse hints? Please. Please. Please!!! Big brother. ;D :angel:
Will the coordinates of N 37.46103 W 96.25594 work for oval.
Sorry Dee Gee. It's not at West Elk.
Here's today update:
Seen easily from above
But not from the ground.
I'm oval in shape;
Not round.
Once very popular
'Specially on race day;
Dan knew me better
From hauling hay.
I think I might actually have one!!! Since you said coordinates weren't needed how about the old race track at the Howard fair grounds. I never new there was one there until I saw it on Google Earth. Since the sat. photos have been updated you can even see the mud bog run off to the east end of the oval.
Good try, but that's not it. Don't give up, though. You're closer than you might think.
Quote from: flintauqua on August 26, 2009, 09:14:39 PM
Can I mislead or drop obtuse hints? Please. Please. Please!!! Big brother. ;D :angel:
Seems Big Brother Dan isn't even going to bother answering my question.
Guess I know my station in life. :P
Here's clue #3 (see earlier post for #1 and #2)
To start getting hot
In finding this spot
Think of its neighbor
KDoT
One of the 4th district KDOT maps shows something near the Rodeo grounds.
The aerial looks partly oval.
Waldo,
You're somewhat vague. Can you pinpoint your guess a little better?
Isn't the only thing close to the rodeo grounds the landing strip? I was going to say airport, but I didn't want to give anyone a false impression.
The road that goes around the arena at the rodeo grounds (160 highway E of higway 99), is pretty near an oval. A pretty good distance around it to walk, used to walk it often.
It has to be that or the rodeo arena itself.
Actually, I was mumbling, and my words did not come out right.
I was thinking it was the rodeo grounds because they look somewhat oval from the air and something related to KDOT district 4 is right close to those grounds.
I'm glad to see there's still some players. Sorry, but it's not the Rodeo grounds, although you're headed in the right direction. Stay tuned later today for the next very revealing clue. Use the satellite views, there's no markings for this spot.
I'm just jumping in here to say I've enjoyed reading this thread, even though I'm one of the most directionally challenged people on the planet (I have literally been lost in an airport parking lot). Early in the conservation a link was posted to Back Roads Touring (or something like that! LOL) and it's got some great photos of southeast Kansas. Thanks for sharing that!
While I'm here, I'm going to toss in my two cents and guess that you are describing the Moline quarry.
You won't strike gold in the quarry, so take my advice and head for Colorado.
OK here is another guess. I am not sure what the place is but there appears to be an old track of some sort east of Grenola next to what looks like a drag strip. Since I don't know what it may be called I will give lat. N 37.2155 W 96.2426 This image is from Google Earth.
Here we go with clue #4.
104 doves flew
4 miles from the line.
5 went west,
Leaving 99.
Is it the race 'horse or car' track West of the old KDOT building and present yard on K-99 on the South side of Moline?
I don't remember ever seeing it before but something shows up there on the satellite photo.
WE HAVE A WINNER. Dee Gee has pinpointed it. I don't know the full history of it, but well before my time, there was a full-blown racetrack just SE of Moline. If you know it's there, you can sort of see it from Hwy 99 as you drive by, but on many of the satellite maps, it does show up a whole lot better. I became aware of it in the early 70's when my uncle hayed that field, and my crew hauled it to his hay barn just up the highway at the Livestock Auction. We loved that job because it was a short haul, all on blacktop, and an easy barn to unload into. Plus when we got the last of it picked up we could race the hay trucks around it.
That is amazing.
I looked all along K-99 down to Valley Road but did not see anything.
But it is right there and in plain sight on Google.
Some day when you have nothing else to do, figure out where this is. N 39.69606 W 75.76130 :laugh:
I would guess you are trying to give the coordinates for your place, however, when stating longitude and latitude, after the dot are the the minutes and they don't go over 60. So I am guessing your place or Chester Pennsylvania.
Larryj
The coordinates are converted to true decimal. You can do that in acme maps by clicking on options. N39 41' 45" W75 45' 40"
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 29, 2009, 06:49:50 PM
Some day when you have nothing else to do, figure out where this is. N 39.69606 W 75.76130 :laugh:
Do you often shop at Super Fresh Food Market, or bank at PNC? Nice little strip of small businesses between those two.
I saw you. Did you see me as I flew over? ;D ;D ;D
Yup, that's our Super Fresh, the one that's up hill both ways. We don't use that bank though. Great, I waved at ya. That's the Acme coordinates for my house. Al and I were playing with it. He loves it.
good job dee gee. if you hadn't pointed it out i would never have known it was there.
Next place to find.
It stands beside a circle drive that is shown as a complete circle on TerraServer-USA but only as a fish hook on Google Earth.
It runs 24 hours, 7 days a week and 52 weeks every year.
More clues later if it is located or named.
Either what it is or the coordinates will be okay.
Could it be the artisan well at Busby?
I thought it would be too easy. You get the honor of putting on the next quest.
Someone else can do the honors. It was just a guess on my part.
Leave it to Delbert to switch counties on us. At least he did start a new thread, Where am I in Chautauqua County, which is where this tangent continues.
Does anyone else have an Elk County spot? If so go for it. If there isn't anything by Thursday, noon, I'll post one.
Charles
I'm going to be traveling thru next Tuesday, and won't have good access. So if anyone, anyone at all would like to post a target, go for it. Otherwise I'll post one and try to give clues as I can.
Have a good Labor Day weekend,
Charles
Even though I am very close to Liberty,
I'm still an order issued by legal authority
Where in Elk County Am I?
How about the bell in the clock tower of the courthouse in Howard? Isn't it on the National Historic Register?
Sorry Andrea, 0 for 2.
As far as I know, there is no bell in the clock tower, the clock itself is a very recent addition. And it's not on the National Register. Correction, the Elk County Courthouse was added to the National Register this spring, but does not come up on some appropriate websites.
But, an appropriate guess.
Next clue,
I had a stockyard, rather small.
Now there's hardly anything at all.
Could it be Grand Summit?
Myrna
Since Charlie is actually in Elk County right now, he's not available to answer. However, I do happen to know his targeted location and it is not Grand Summit.
Next Clue:
My company once made tractors for Hesston
Now I'm having to fix Chrysler's messin.
FIAT is the answer, I think
Yes it is Fiat. Now where is it?
Charles (@Dan's House)
I would tell you if I weren't too lazy to dig out a map.
Very simple.
9.2 km sxse from Severy,Ks
9.3 km nxne from Howard, Ks
17.5 km wxsw from Fall River, Ks
;D
In English it is 4 Miles North of Howard on 99 Hwy and 3 Miles East. Or it is in Sec 3, T-29, R 11East
and we pronounce it FI-AT, not FEE-AHT, like the Wichita TV weathermen report and the name of the car..........................
OK, I'm back home now.
I guess Frank is up, unless it was Myrna ???
Charles
Well Charles, Myrna should do this but she left it to me. I really don't have an idea what to put out there, but here goes.
" I am setting at the First Settlement in Elk County" where am I?????
Seeing how you said ELK County and not HOWARD County I would guess GRENOLA.
Dale, the key word is "Settlement", not town.
White or Native American?
Diane, I very much doubt that it could be pinpointed where and when the first Indian settlement was established, in any case it is White settlement.
Diane, settlement was the keyword in my source as it was not described as a town.
Ok, 1864. Someone else can add the name(s) and exactly where.
Here is what I found:
The first settler to enter upon the land included within the confines of what is now Elk County, was Richard Graves, who came in 1856, and was twice driven out by the Indians.
The country at this time was new and almost a wilderness, overrun by wild animals and roving bands of Indians, and, in consequence, settlements were few and unconnected.
The land at this time belonged to the Osage Indians, upon which legal settlement could not be made. There was, however, a strip of land extending along the northern part of the county, six miles wide, known as the "ceded strip," upon which legal settlement could be made. It was consequently along the streams included within this belt where the earliest settlements were made. But it was not long to be confined to this narrow limit. Bold, adventurous men there were, who became attracted by the beautiful and fertile valleys of the Elk River and its tributary streams, and at the risk of their lives among the Indians, upon whose rights they were intruding, and with expectations of being driven off by United States troops, they determined to make an effort to settle upon these desirable lands. Only a few at first made the attempt, and, in consequence, their presence was not distasteful to the authorities or alarming to the Indians. Others now began to come in, until in 1870 the number of "squatters" had become quite considerable. Among those who were leaders of the vanguard, and who came to stay, were J. C. Pinney, James Shipley, R. M. Humphrey, Elison Neat, H. G. Miller, J. B. Roberts and others.
Andrea
Quote from: jensarlou on September 03, 2009, 11:14:34 PM
How about the bell in the clock tower of the courthouse in Howard? Isn't it on the National Historic Register?
Andrea,
I believe I owe you an apology.
According to: http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/ks/Elk/state.html (http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/ks/Elk/state.html), the Elk County Courthouse is not on the National Register. However according to: http://www.kshs.org/resource/national_register/search.php?county=EK (http://www.kshs.org/resource/national_register/search.php?county=EK), the courthouse was nominated this spring and was added to the National Register on April 22, 2009. If this information was in the paper or here on the forum, I missed it somehow.
Charles
I can't seem to come up with any good clues to post and I don't want this thread to stop so I will just post the answer and then let the more knowledgable participants post a new one.
According to the 'Elk County History: Book the first settlement in Elk County was McKey in the Northeast corner of the county on Indian Creek, it was named for D.W. McKey, one of the early settlers.
This is a good thread and lots of people seem to enjoy it.
Andrea,
You mention JC Pinney as one of the early squatters. In a late 1800's to early 1900's trash dump I used to dig I found a couple of soda pop bottles that are embossed "Pinney" from Fredonia, Ks. I wonder iif that Pinney was the early settler--or a relative ? Finding out will give Waldo something to do today. Waldo ????? :)
I am out for most of today.
However, J. G. Pinney and P. G. Pinney are mentioned as residents of Fredonia in the early days.
Someone on this forum mentioned having a Kansas Bottle Book. Perhaps they could find something out about Pinney bottles.
Waldo,
I have the Kansas Bottle Book ,1854 to 1915 ,but there is no date for the Pinney bottle. I do see where JC Pinney was appointed sheriff when Howard county was organized and that he was a 4 year veteran of the Civil War. Before I get jumped on I would move this to the 'good ol days " thread if I knew how. :)
Please don't. Where in Elk County I Am goes right along with old times as much of it is past history. I am really enjoying the clues and history that is being presented. I just wish that I knew more about Elk County so I could come up with something for the rest of you. If I could remember some of the things that my husband used to talk about, I could, but unfortunately, I am no longer sure about what he called certain sites.
One that comes to mind, though, is Buttermilk Hill. But that won't take long for some oldtimer to find.
Wilma, I just happen to remember where Buttermilk Hill is, I used to park there and watch the stars as a young man. Great memories.
Frank; park there and "watch the stars"? Is that what you kids used to call it? ;) I'm sure her parents bought that story...
Frank, You called it "parking " back in horse & buggy days ?? :)
Tobina, you and Jarhead are tough, I don't mind those were fun times. I dated a few of those Moline girls in those days. Myrna put an end top my freedom and watching the stars on Buttermilk Hill, wow, that was 50 years ago.
Quote from: frawin on September 09, 2009, 05:29:27 AM
I can't seem to come up with any good clues to post and I don't want this thread to stop so I will just post the answer and then let the more knowledgable participants post a new one.
According to the 'Elk County History: Book the first settlement in Elk County was McKey in the Northeast corner of the county on Indian Creek, it was named for D.W. McKey, one of the early settlers.
This is a good thread and lots of people seem to enjoy it.
Patrons of 1885 Elk County Atlas: http://www.ksgennet.org/ks/ek/omni/atlasnames.html (http://www.ksgennet.org/ks/ek/omni/atlasnames.html)
D. W. McKey; Sec. 31 T. 29S R. 12E; Farmer and Stockraiser; Nativity, Overton Co. Tenn.; Date of settlement, June 1867
Thanks Charles, I will print that off and put it in my Elk County File.
Quote from: frawin on September 09, 2009, 12:56:28 PM
Thanks Charles, I will print that off and put it in my Elk County File.
Frank,
The location given in 1885 for McKey, is probably in the wrong township and range, or he moved further into the county in the intervening years. The 1885 location is along Rd 22A, or Rd 23 (whichever it is called at that point) just north of Limestone (Busby Road) which is drained by East Hitchen Creek, not Indian Creek. However, if you go just one township north, you would be on Indian Creek. I cannot find the 1885 Atlas on line, though I have viewed it before in libraries and at the Register of Deeds Office. Wasn't looking up in that area, so I have no notes that pertain to this particular subject.
Charles
Don't mind them young'uns, Frank, parking and cruising were the only two things to do. AND, I dated a Moline girl or two myself in the summers I spent with my Grandmother. AND, listening to rock and roll on that big radio station out of Oklahoma City, KOMA. When you had the money, there was the movie theater, (costs a dime for a while, then a quarter), or hang out at a cafe in Moline, (Can't remember the name), next to the Woolworths (?) or something similar to that. Ah, what memories!
Larryj
Quote from: flintauqua on September 08, 2009, 10:16:57 PM
Quote from: jensarlou on September 03, 2009, 11:14:34 PM
How about the bell in the clock tower of the courthouse in Howard? Isn't it on the National Historic Register?
Andrea,
I believe I owe you an apology.
According to: http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/ks/Elk/state.html (http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/ks/Elk/state.html), the Elk County Courthouse is not on the National Register. However according to: http://www.kshs.org/resource/national_register/search.php?county=EK (http://www.kshs.org/resource/national_register/search.php?county=EK), the courthouse was nominated this spring and was added to the National Register on April 22, 2009. If this information was in the paper or here on the forum, I missed it somehow.
Charles
Thanks Flint,
I was thinking on the order of a play on words with your clue, close to Liberty-The Liberty Bell, the bell in the clock tower. I found online where it was added to the Nat. Regis. I guess though I am still lost on the whole Fiat thing. Could you please explain the background on the clues for Fiat.
Thanks Andrea
Next Clue:
My company once made tractors for Hesston
Now I'm having to fix Chrysler's messin.
Andrea, this one refers to the fact that Fiat Italia Motors built the Hesston Tractors , also Fiat Motors is involved in the Chrysler rebuilding plan. Fiat is Italy's main if not the only Motor Company.
First clue:
Even though I am very close to Liberty,
I'm still an order issued by legal authority
Fiat is three miles from Liberty Township; Webster's defines fiat as "an order issued by legal authority."
Second clue:
I had a stockyard, rather small.
Now there's hardly anything at all.
One of the ATSF history sites states that Fiat had the smallest stockyard on the Howard Branch.
Frank or Myrna beat me to the third clue explanation.
Charles
Larry, I probably met you back in those days at Moline and Howard. Our Forum old Granny was one of those cute little girls running around Moline in those days. The big hangout was the Dairy Bar (If memory serves me correctly that was the name). Winnie Tucker owned and operated the Dairy Bar and she was a super lady, she welcomed all of the young people to come there and hangout as long as you didn't use foul language or get disorderly. Or You might be thinking of the Corner Cafe which was on the Corner a couple of doors South of The " Merc"the "Mercantile", the Merc burned to the ground in the early 50s. Those were fun times, but like you I met the love of my life and got married 45 years ago. My wife has been a super partner friend, dedicated Mother to our children. You mentioned KOMA out of Oklahoma City, I think that was Wolfman Jack. We also listened to a station out of Del Rio, Texas. WOW what fun memories.
Hey Frank & Larry, I aint too far behind y'all. I remember the "Merc" when it was north of the bank, but not the one that burnt down. Cleo Beu would fit your shoes or a new pair of Levi's or whatever you needed. If I remember right ,just north of the Merc was an Army Surplus store. That's where I bought my first---and last, pemmingon (sp) I think it was made from berries mixed with buffalo dung !!! And KOMA ?? Oh yea.Every Saturday night they revved up the engines advertising a Tulsa speedway, then played Younger Girl by the Hondells. I know because I was parked on hilltop road west of Elk Falls in my 51 Chevy. If you parked too long you just clutched the old jalopy,rolled aways, popped the clutch and headed home.
Jarhead, there was nothing better than growing up in Elk County in those days. What fun I had, I have always had lots of fond memories of those years.
My teenage years were spent in the desert in Arizona many miles from anywhere and the only radio stations that came in clear were KOMA and Del Rio. We couldn't get them until after about 8 pm but after that they over powered all the other stations.
I remember the Corner Cafe because they made the biggest Cheeseburgers, way before quarterpounders. My buddy and I were on a double date there and we had a contest to see who could eat one of those cheeseburgers in less bites. I won eating in only five huge bites. (Hmmm---that could explain the "bigmouth!") Anyway, there was another cafe across the street and more in the center of the block that I can't remember the name of, or maybe I just didn't know the name at the time. However, one of my friends mother worked in the "five and dime" that I referred to as Woolworths. And, I believe that store was right next to the cafe. Maybe it was the dairy bar. I don't want to give out names as there might be lawsuits and such. :-X ;D Suffice to say, my son and I drove through Moline in 2002 just for a quick tour before going on to Howard. I was saddened by so many places closed. I hope that there has been some revitalization to the town since then. I found it difficult at first to remember where all my friends lived, but I got oriented after a while and took a cruise down memory lane.
Larryj
Quote from: Wilma on September 09, 2009, 10:06:01 AM
One that comes to mind, though, is Buttermilk Hill. But that won't take long for some oldtimer to find.
OK, you 'old timers' have talked about this Buttermilk Hill, now enlighten us youngins as to which hill this is.
Charles, going South of Howard on Highway 99, after you cross the Elk River Bridge it is the first road on the East side of the Highway, the road goes South South East, Buttermilk Hill is about a 3/4 of a mile down the road, if you have ever been down that road it is the only hill on it, the road is only a mile then you have to turn East or West back to 99 Highway.
The turn off of 99 is also the same road to go to the Hunter place, or right across the highway from the road to the old Guy V. Denton place.
Frank
Second note on this: I forgot to expand on the KOMA radio station. For a few years during my teens my mother and I lived in SE Colorado and like Ms Bear says the station only came in at night. So we would just cruise and sing along. I can remember one night that the station would announce that they were going to play such and such a song and then played a song called Churchkey Twist. No matter what song they said they were going to play, it was Churchkey Twist. It got old after a while. I never heard Churchkey Twist anymore after that. Thankfully.
Larryj
Third note on this: Where is this road in relation to the road to the lake? And, before you ask, yes, I have probably been on Buttermilk Hill, but I don't remember that part. But, I went everywhere else in the county, so I was probably there. Most of the haying I did was west of town. I washed my car at low water bridge SW of town just below my uncle's farm. I had a flat tire at least once a week driving on the gravel roads. That was before tubeless tires.
Larryj
Thanks, Frank. I wasn't sure where between Moline and Howard you were at, or even what road.
Larry: N 37.43553 W 96.26197
Larry that bridge below your Uncle Pete's farm was known as the Low Water Bridge. It was a favorite place for families to play in the shallow water and to wash their vehicles on the Bridge. It was Staight West from the SW part of Howard.
Larry the Road to Buttermilk Hill is approximately 1.5+Miles South down Highway 99 from where the road to the lake is.
Isn't the road to Hunter's and Buttermilk Hill now called Junebug?
It is, when I was a kid that was known as Hunters Road. Back then there were only two families that lived on that road, the Hunters and Russel Gilbert and both families had a dairy. Maybe that is why they called it Buttermilk Hill. Russel later leased the Mobil Station that was where PJs is now, quit the Dairy and later moved away from Howard.
New Target:
Made of brick, I stood longer than most,
Until, one day, KDOT said I was toast.
Charles, was it Harmony School House?????
I knew that was too easy for some, but I couldn't have been any more obtuse for others.
Would you like to give the location of Harmony School?
And since this one went so quickly, I'll throw out a very historical question about the vicinity of Harmony:
What existed somewhere within a half mile west/southwest of Harmony?
Charles
Charles N 37.36797, W 96.28298
The only requirement is someone else pick the next one.
What existed somewhere within a half mile west/southwest of Harmony?
Was it the Hilltop Cafe?
Or the Moline Livestock Auction?
Wilma, I thought about that but the word that stopped me from saying the sale barn was "existed", the sale barn is still there.
Older, much older, Howard County old.
North of the Sale Barn, west of Harmony School (Which sat in the middle of the old triangle jct of US 160/K 99.)
Think J. S. Boicourt
That is much older than my Elk County associations. And the sale barn is still there but the auction isn't.
The Dam and Mill on Wildcat Creek???
Charles, if I have this correct, Myrna is going to take me to Braum's and buy me a double dip low Carb Vanilla ice cream cone.
Get ready for the double dip low Carb Vanilla ice cream cone. My bets on Frank.
Old Granny, my memory is getting bad, did we ever park on Buttermilk Hill. I know I parked there with some girl from Moline.
No, Frank. To the best of my memory we did not park anywhere! But if you remember something , let me know. Now I am not saying I was never on Buttermilk Hill, just not with you. :angel: :o
I really do not remember you dating anyone but Myrna. Sure you did but cannot remember.
Quote from: frawin on September 10, 2009, 06:47:09 PM
The Dam and Mill on Wildcat Creek???
Go get your Braum's Frank. Yes it was the mill owned by J. S Boicourt and J. W. Hanson, built in either 1872 or 1874, depending on whose profile you read from the
History of the State of Kansas, by William G. Cutler.
Your turn, or you can designate someone or anyone.
Charles
Thanks Charles, I would like for you to do the next one, you are far more knowledgable and creative on this subject.
Don't have another ready to go, and will be out this afternoon. Anyone else that wants to jump in can, or I will try to post a target this evening.
Charles
P.S. Where's Waldo ??? Vacation ???
No, not yet on vacation.
I cannot match the poetry, but here is a question:
I had a round house but I had no Wildcat connection. Where in Elk County am I?
Waldo is that the old Roundhouse that was in Moline????
There was no Wildcat connection.
So even though Moline, in Wildcat Township, had a roundhouse, that is not the answer.
Waldo, I know you said no Wildcat Connection, I am thinking maybe the old roundhouse was to the East of town and in Elk Falls TWP.
From some of the old discussions on the forum, the old Moline roundhouse was supposed to be in the vicinity of the Curly Q.
The old Moline roundhouse was just to the NE of the tracks where Rairdon Rd. and 160 highway join as 160 curves to the north on the west end of town. There is a big trashpile there now, I also was told that the strip of property along there once held 'houses' for the workers who built the railroad.
Correct -There were living areas for the workers just south of what use to be the Skeet Ames house. Shorty Galvan lived there. Remember going there as a child.
I had a round house but I had no Wildcat connection. Where in Elk County am I?
The answer I was looking for is Howard.
The Santa Fe RR name of Howard Branch comes from the fact that Howard originally was end-of-track, not because it was a county seat or an important destination.
When Howard became end-of-track in 1879, a roundhouse was built with a turntable to turn locomotives to face towards Emporia. Otherwise the locomotive would have to have driven in reverse the entire way pulling cars on the return trip.
The Howard facility was only a two stall roundhouse similar to the one in Moline. A tornado hit in 1884 and destroyed the roundhouse. It was never rebuilt. The turntable was moved to Moline when Moline became end-of-track for the Howard Branch in 1886.
The Howard roundhouse was located in the general area of the stockyards—just north of the cemetery and the road going west to Bellar's hog operation.
Another possible answer is Grenola. Grenola had a turntable to turn locomotives. However, I have never seen anything mentioned about a roundhouse. The turntable was located at about the intersection of Locust and Railroad streets.
After the Moline round house and turntable was dispensed with, Santa Fe used a large wye east of Moline, which, if need be, could turn entire trains to face in the proper direction to head for Emporia.
A wye is explained at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wye_%28rail%29
Next Target:
You won't find me on a list,
but Wilsons and Sallees insist.
No topo says I exist,
Brother Dan's help I will enlist.
We'll start you off with two clues in one day. Here's the next.
Of all the places I could be
Let me narrow the selection.
From one to thirty-six
I'm in a #12 section.
Dan, I think that is the location of Star School????? I am guessing that the Wilson's and Salllee's went to school there.
Frank,
Unless they moved it recently, Star School is not in a section #12.
I am sure it hasn't been moved. I was just looking at an old map of the Section 12s in the area and I thought Star was pretty close to the Sec 12 West of Moline. Back to my old notes, Maps and file.
Dan, the most notable Section 12 in the area is where the Quarry is. I just can't put the Wilson's and Sallees in that one.
Dan's having way too much fun with this one. He suggested the target, I came up with the first clue (after throwing it past him first), he pms me back with clues 2 and 3, then in the meantime he creates a whole new clue 2. ::) :angel:
Keep going Frank. I might even post clue 3 (the original clue 2) later this evening.
Charles, I know there were several Oil and Gas wells drilled in the West Sec 12, but I don't have anything significant about them. I look forward to your next clue. I have spent a lot of time at the Kansas Historical Society scanning old newspapers doing Genealogy, in the future I will look for other news items to copy as well.
Clue #3
Towering high over 40 years
Near a withering star.
Head west southwest
And there you are.
For starters today, in honor of one of the players, I'll modify clue #3 a bit, then provide #4
Towering high over 40 years
Near Frank's withering Star.
Go 3/4+ west southwest
And there you are.
#4
To pinpoint this location
Start from the opposite corner
Go one half north
Then east one quarter
Then just a bit more
Along the border.
I did receive a call yesterday afternoon from a forum lurker, correctly identifying this target after just the first 2 clues. They said to "play on" so I won't reveal their name till later.
Dan! Dan! Dan! >:( :P
Why pm me with the clues, if you're just going to make up new ones. ::)
The original #3
No public road will get you there
Of cows and calves you best beware
Try acme mapper's highest degrees
Near the middle will I be
A rectangle along a row of trees
I was on a map in 1903
I believe the "lurker" is the present owner of the land.
Charles and Dan, I didn't get to work on this last night but did early this A.M.. I see Star School in the NW Corner of Sec 7 and the Rural Water Tower/Storage in the Middle of 11, but I am not seeing anything else that I can tie to the clues. Back to the drawing board.
Could it be the Border School.
Previous Clues:
You won't find me on a list,
but Wilsons and Sallees insist.
No topo says I exist,
Brother Dan's help I will enlist.
Of all the places I could be
Let me narrow the selection.
From one to thirty-six
I'm in a #12 section.
(Star Schoolhouse is not in a #12 section, but is within a mile of the target)
Towering high over 40 years
Near a withering star.
Head west southwest
And there you are.
Modified to:
Towering high over 40 years
Near Frank's withering Star.
Go 3/4+ west southwest
And there you are.
(There is an old microwave tower to the NW of Star Schoolhouse)
To pinpoint this location
Start from the opposite corner
Go one half north
Then east one quarter
Then just a bit more
Along the border.
No public road will get you there
Of cows and calves you best beware
Try acme mapper's highest degrees
Near the middle will I be
A rectangle along a row of trees
I was on a map in 1903
Dan and I have run out of clever, rhyming clues so here's the final one:
To find me very interesting
You'd have to study genealogy
I'm a very old, long-forgotten
Low-maintained unnamed cemetery
Charles and Dan, you got me for sure. If I ever knew about that one I forgot. I am aware of several other unnamed Cemeteries in Elk County, but wasn't aware of that one. I have been looking everywhere to find something in the subject section. It was fun anyway. THANKS
Are there Wilsons and Sallees buried there?
There are definitely Sallees there, I have seen the tombstone. My sister Roberta, and Brian and Darrin Clubine (and possibly some more Moline youth) and I visited the site once in the early '80s. I'll let Brother Dan speak about his visit(s).
Don't know about Wilsons. The various generations have lived on that section well over 100 years, so I wouldn't be surprised.
For the record, location is: N 37.36705 W 96.37586 or NW corner, NE1/4, SW 1/4, Sec 12, T31S, R9E.
It is visible at highest resolution on acme mapper, and it does appear on the 1903 Elk County Plat Map:
http://www.kansasheritage.org/orsh/byco/orshcoek2.htm (http://www.kansasheritage.org/orsh/byco/orshcoek2.htm)
and:
http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/209401/page/14 (http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/209401/page/14)
Having been to this small cemtery, the only names I recall are Sallee.
The markers are made of local stone.
Okay, Frank for your efforts at the last one, you can go next or decide who goes next.
In the meantime, here is a really quick, purely topographical one:
I'm the highest spot in Elk County that does not drain to the Verdigris River.
Charles, I just got home and found your post. I think it is in the far NW corner where Grouse Creek starts and goes South and ultimately ends up in the Arkansas River. I will search some more.
Yes in the NW part of the county, but maybe not quite as far north as most would think.
Charles it looks like to me it is Section 34, T-29S, R-38E
That was Dan's first guess (via pm). I told him he was ten feet too low. You're also a little too far north.
Let me pull it up again.
Frank,
Go downstream a couple of miles then check out the east side slope. There's an area that goes over 1600 ft. in section 14.
Dan you are correct, I just got in a hurry. It's past my bedtime, I will see you all in the morning. Thanks again Charles and Dan for making me work by brain. That was an interesting search.
Anyone know what the spot where it says 1601 is?
Wilma, I think you might know this.
Would it be the hill that I can see the top of straight west of my kitchen window? What map are you guys using? My maps are old ownership maps of Elk county and I don't think any of them give elevation. I have found Grouse Creek that seems to flow to the west instead of southeast and goes through the Youngmeyer property. However, I cannot recall that any part of that is higher than the Green ranch which would also drain into Grouse Creek. Without a better map that is about as good as I can do. Section 15 or 22, TSH 29, Range 8. Daughter has a better map. Will get back to you.
There seems to be a spot in Section 35, Township 29, Range 8 E. The elevation seems to be 1650.
The topographic map shows a 'spot elevation' of 1601 right where the gate to the Green Ranch is. There may be a spot higher than 1601 just north or south of that gate, as the contour line of 1600 does run into the Green Ranch a ways, as well as the Youngemeyer.
Here's a shot of the gate: http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_28_02/107-0798_IMG.jpg (http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_28_02/107-0798_IMG.jpg)
And a shot looking east from the spot: http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_28_02/107-0795_IMG.jpg (http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/04_28_02/107-0795_IMG.jpg)
Charles
P.S. Wilma, is this the sunflower picture we were discussing earlier: http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/09_02_01/104_0451.JPG (http://www.backroadstouring.net/btk/09_02_01/104_0451.JPG)
Charlie, that's the shot. Those other shots look so familiar, especially the one looking east. We used to drive that road just for the view.
Does anyone have a new target?
I just walked due north into Elk County, but I didn't come from Chautauqua County. Where in Elk County Am I?
Somewhere around N 37.38666 W 95.96352 after leaving Montgomery County.
Correct Dale.
Would you like to explain the land surveying quirk that allows this to be done?
It is because the world is round. All sections of the world is smaller on the side that is closer the the north/south poles therefore the is a correct line thrown in to bring the section back to a full mile every six miles you go to the north or south.
I'm in a reviving mood of late. Hope the Moderator will bear with me! ;D
The aerial/satellite imaging of Elk County has taken a turn for the better of late. Sometime last fall, the Google (and other) images of the area were updated, and apparently with a higher level of resolution. That, plus the effects of the drought on the vegetation, has allowed me to see marks on the land that I have not seen in previous images.
So, I have some new targets for interested geography detectives.
The best way to get a latitude and longitude for the targets is to view the images at:
http://mapper.acme.com/ (http://mapper.acme.com/)
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First target is a single word containing three syllables spelled out in nine letters of rock, each approximately 8-10 foot tall. Where in Elk County Am I?
For the life of me, I can't figure out what it is you want us to look for. Something spelled out in rock with nine letters in Elk County and it is a single word. I have no clue. Help me, please.
I was waiting for the first victim (:angel:) so that I could post another clue or two to narrow it down a bit.
Similar to the G on the side of the hill west of Grenola that was a target in the original run of this game, except this is an entire word spelled out in rocks, on a hillside.
It is the name of a place that does show on some topographical maps of the county, but it is not a town, nor has it ever been a town or even had a post office.
And it is somewhere in Commissioner District 3 (Kenny Liebau) which is Union Center, Greenfield, and Wildcat Townships.
BTW - Here is a snip showing one the original targets in this game (in 2009), the Grenola "G" (circled in red) in relationship to Grenola, the railroad, and the highway.
A non-Forum member just called and correctly identified this feature. He is fairly certain that it existed forty years ago, but does not know exactly how long it may have been there prior to the early '70s.
As has been done in the past, we will play on since it is just the first day on this target. I'll wait until at least Sunday to reveal, unless someone else answers correctly and publicly.
While I'm here, I give another clue. I'm in the area that originally comprised school districts 13, 21, 20, 60, and 31.
OK, in 1935
Dist. 13 was Clear Creek
Dist. 21 was Greenfield
Dist. 20 was Dinger
Dist. 60 was East Caney
Dist. 31 was, I couldn't find it,
Districts 21, 20 and 60 are in Greenfield Township, north of Grenola.
District 13 was in Longton Township, there was another Clear Creek Dist. 1 in Union Center Township.
This doesn't help me any, but it might someone else.
Oops, my bad! ::)
Upon closer examination of the 1880's map I pulled those numbers from, it is not District 13, but actually district 43, which would be Oak Grove in Greenfield Township. I never have found a name for District 31, but it shows up on said map in the SW part of Union Center Township.
Thank you Wilma for catching the mistake, and for contibuting to the game.
Charlie
Had another correct answer, privately, so we play on.
Laying across soil formed from either the Hamlin or West Branch Shale, I'm comprised of rocks from the nearby Five Point Limestone and/or members of the Foraker Limestone Group that cap the hill above me.
http://www.kgs.ku.edu/General/Geology/Elk/gifs/plate1.pdf (http://www.kgs.ku.edu/General/Geology/Elk/gifs/plate1.pdf)
Last set of clues.
I am about a mile upstream of a Big Caney Joint Watershed District Dam that the USGS National Atlas has misnamed as Elk River Upper Ws Dam 36.
Anyone that might try to fly into the defunct grass landing strip on the flat above and to the east of me would have to be very careful not to hit the three wind towers that are in the NE 1/4 of the section that I am smack dab in the middle of.
I've now received a third correct answer, and the first from a non-family member, so I will reveal the location.
N 37.42533 W 96.48071
In the center of Sec 24, Township 30S, Range 8E is the word EAGLEHEAD spelled out in rock. This refers to the West Eagle Head Ranch that is shown on the 7.5 min topographical maps available at: http://mapper.acme.com/ (http://mapper.acme.com/) A snip of the topo and of the satellite image available at the same site are attached.
This is on land now owned by the Jack Bannon family, but which had previously been part of a then much larger Ferguson Ranch. The 1903 Ogle Standard Atlas of Elk County shows the land being part of the large B. F. Boys land holdings, and in 1885 the area was owned by Henry Clement and J. W. McNulty, as shown on the Davy Atlas of Elk County.
1903 Ogle Atlas: http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/209401/page/15 (http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/209401/page/15)
1885 Davy Atlas: http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/223994/page/21 (http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/223994/page/21)
My first cousin Randy Durbin was the first to contact me with a correct identification, and had inadvertently assisted my brother Dan Durbin in narrowing it down, and he was the second to guess correctly. Both had located the satellite image of the location. Our first responder in this round, Janet Harrington, PM'ed me just a little while ago with a correct indentification, based solely on the clues, as she could not actually find it on a mapping site.
If anyone would like me to continue this game, please let me know, either here or in a personal message. If so, I would probably post a new target every two to three weeks.
If anyone else would like to post a location of their choosing for others to try and locate, please feel free to do so. I and others would look forward to the hunt.
Charlie
I had a feeling that it might have something to do with Eaglehead, but since I didn't know that it existed and I couldn't find anything, I just waited. Yes, Charlie, please continue to provide entertainment for us. I am not likely to recognize anything since I didn't grow up in Elk County but it is fun trying.
Excellent. Yes, Charlie, let's do this again.
The game is afoot!
I'm standing in a spot that has two different names, looking across the road at a hill that a government agency calls something different yet.
Where in Elk County am I?
I guess I am needing more clues to figure this on out. So I wait.
When Howard County was organized in 1870, there were only three townships. Now there are ten townships in just Elk County. Two of these carry the name of an original from Howard County. I am in one of these two townships.
Charlie, is it Painterhood or Union Center?
Those two are not among the three original townships of Howard County. The township I am in contains the area that was first settled in the County, by five families in 1864, though one of the five had tried as early as 1856.
Charlie it must be Elk Falls or Liberty, Bellville is not in existence today.
Yes, you are correct. So which part of the county was settled first? And remember, we're just narrowing down the geographic area. The exact spot from the first clue is much more specific.
More clues later today.
The first area settled was the ne part near Fall River
The site I'm standing at was patented from the General Land Office by Lydia C. Harsin in 1891 1881, though by 1885 ownership had changed to a Mr. Gibson.
Sorry about the typo. Thanks to Brother Dan for catching it.
In 1885 there was a building adjacent to my south, but it doesn't show up on a 1903 map. In 1939 this building shows up again, but on the other side of the road and a half-mile away. T. I Wooddall either liked this name enough to name his farm the same thing, or this building took the name of his farm.
Okay, I've had a FB message with the correct location about midday yesterday, followed by Forum PM late last night. But like before, since they have answered privately, we can keep the game going a little longer.
The hill I am looking at across the road was visited by what is now a section of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in 1940. They left behind several bronze disks set in concrete, each containing at a minimum the name of the land owner at the time and the year, giving this local a third name - its geodetic "station name".
Oh, I forgot. The number 150 used to mean something to the area also.
Is anyone playing?
Perhaps this spot has a third name because Sinter Klaas kept landing here thinking he was home.
Brother Dan and redcliffsw both got this earlier, and no one has guessed since, so I guess I'll reveal.
It's Mt Zion (aka North Pole) Cemetery in the center of Section 28 TS 28S R 12E. The building for school district #150 (North Pole) used to sit just south of the cemetery and the hill across the road was marked Fleming by the Coast and Geodetic Survey.
Attached are snips from the 1885 Davy Atlas of Elk County, 1903 Ogle Standard Atlas of Elk County, and the USGS topographic map of the area as accessed on acmemapper.
If anyone is interested in continuing the game, please let me know. If we do, the next round will start June 6.
Even though I don't know enough about Elk County to actually play, I am enjoying the game.
Same as Wilma - I enjoy the game, please continue. My knowledge of Elk County is the same or worse than Wilma's, but this is one way to learn. Thanks!
I am enjoying the game. I just couldn't think to try and solve this one.
Sorry, I didn't have time last week to start a new round. Don't think I have anything going on this weekend, so we'll play again. I'll post the first clue Thursday afternoon.
Six score and zero years ago all the Kings horses and all the Kings men managed to put me together. Where in Elk County am I?
Polk Daniels Lake?
Wilma, the Polk Daniels lake was completed in 1936, 17 years before the time Charlie is talking about.
Actually, Polk Daniels Lake is about 50 years younger than where I'm at.
My mistake, 6 score would be 1893.
Charlie, is it Star School?
How many years is a score? I think I was reading score and thinking decade. If six score is 1893, you have lost me. I wasn't close to Elk County at that time.
Wilma, 1 score is 20 years.
1863 - 1776 = 87 or as Abraham Lincoln famously said "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."
So we have the year 1893. So what got put together that year?
It's not Star School.
The nearby prominent sandstone ledge is named for "the town too tough to die".
Elk Falls Bridge ??? between the falls and the basin.. Just a guess.
Does anyone else agree with Ole Granny?
Yes, the iron truss bridge at Elk Falls.
I knew this one was too easy to last very long. David Alexander from California guessed it yesterday evening over on my FB wall, followed not too long afterward by Ole Granny here.
Pin-connected, 7-panel Pratt through truss bridge over Elk River beyond the end of Montgomery Street in Elk Falls, built in 1893 by the George E. King Bridge Co. of Des Moines, Iowa. Added to the National Register of Historic Places on May 6, 1994.
Also, from http://www.legendsofamerica.com/ks-elkfalls2.html (http://www.legendsofamerica.com/ks-elkfalls2.html)
"On November 15, 1892, the board of Elk County Commissioners, voted to build an iron truss bridge over Elk River, connecting the dirt roads into the main thoroughfare leading into Elk Falls from the northeast. Built at a cost of $2,000, it was completed in 1893. Pratt Truss Bridge, as it is called, was unique for its type since expansion joint were made from rollers, rather than wheels. The bridge still stands today and is on the National Register of Historic Places."
. . . "When Kansas Highway 160 was built through Elk Falls in 1957, the traffic on the old steel bridge dwindled to almost nothing. And, when the Elk River experienced a dramatic flood in 1976, most of the wooden planks making up the bridge floor were taken with the turbulent waters. The old bridge was no longer feasible for repair or vehicular traffic and the Elk County Commissioners voted to condemn the bridge and closed it. However, plans to destroy the bridge were fortunately delayed and in 1983, the bridge was preserved as a foot bridge. In 1992, the bridge was made a historical site by the Kansas State Historical Society and in 1994 was placed on the National Register of Historic Sites."
Since that round went so quick, let's play a round of Name That Bridge. Street or road location or directions from a well known landmark and stream it crosses. Please send answers via personal message here so others can continue playing. Happy hunting!
Ole Granny strikes again. She identified Bridge One last night, but is still working on Bridge Two. Anyone else playing?
Bridge one is a highway bridge, but I can't be sure where it is without traveling that highway again.
Can bridge two be seen from the highway?
Quote from: Wilma on June 15, 2013, 10:42:37 AM
Bridge one is a highway bridge, but I can't be sure where it is without traveling that highway again.
Can bridge two be seen from the highway?
Neither of these bridges are on a state or federal highway. The first one can be seen from a highway as it is only four blocks off of one. The second bridge used to be on an extremely well-traveled gravel road between two Elk County towns, but was replaced in the last twenty years. They straightened the road at the same time as building a new bridge, leaving the old one in place about 200 feet southwest (and downstream) of the new one.
I'm lost. How about the rest of you?
Bridge One - If you 'swing' over a block, you'll be here.
Bridge Two - Thomas E. Thompson would enjoy this Game.
I think I know where bridge one is now. You will hear from me shortly.
Okay, we had some new players come into the game late over on my FB wall and I was giving them a little overtime period to work with.
Bridge one is the Silver Bridge in the 600 block of N. Main in Moline, one block east and downstream of the Oldest Swinging Bridge in Kansas. Ole granny got this one right away, even providing a little history lesson about how it replaced a Red Bridge after Johnny McSpadden wrecked on the bridge. (Elders in my family referred to this previous one as the Wagon Bridge). Wilma and Janet also got this one right, as did a few on FB, whom I have acknowledged in PM's on FB.
Only Janet came up with Bridge Two, though Kelly Wunderlich Murphy came close on my FB wall. Kelly guessed it as being the bypassed bridge across Clear Creek, now in one of Huntington's pastures SE of Elk Falls on Road 20 south of the old route of US 160 from Elk Falls to Longton. This bridge is very similar in age and construction to the bridge pictured, and kind of fits some of the clues. But referencing Tommy Thompson and the word Game in the clues got the proper response from Janet - the old bridge over Game Creek on Road 18 (what is still called River Road by some) between Killdeer and Junebug, south of the entrance to Polk Daniels Lake. Many on here will recall that Polk Daniels was Thomas E. Thompson's pen name. Janet also noted that the foundations of a building and other farmstead ruins that remain near the bridge are those of the farmhouse that belonged to Gene Perkins' parents. The farmstead is labeled "2" in the snip below, with the old bridge being "1".
I must say the Silver bridge was so very easy for me, since I lived just north of it growing up. Spent many fun filled days playing in the creek below. Thanks for the memories...
I even figured out the one because I know where the swinging bridge is.The other...no idea.
The old bridge that is over Game Creek on Gene Perkins used to have sides on it. Gene told me a story about how Guy Denton couldn't get a piece of farm equipment over it and he asked the commissioners to do something. they hemmed and hawed and just couldn't figure out what to do. Guy Denton solved their problem for them. He took a crowbar and pushed the bigs stones that were in his way off into the creek. Problem solved. Those stones are still there. Gene says somewhere there is a picture of that bridge after the county had built it showing the county workers in their bibs sitting on the bridge. Sure would like to see that picture. The road has been changed and a new bridge put in. You can see the old bridge from the county road. However; if you really want to go look at it, please be sure you get permission from Gene Perkins as he owns the bridge and the old county road that is still there.
I wanted to tell you that I did not dicuss this with my mother. LOL
She definitely did not tell me about it. I might have beat her to it if she had. I did have an inkling that it was in that vicinity, but since I haven't been in that vicinity since I can't remember when, I could only guess about where a road might have been straightened.
Will there be a July installment of Where In Elk County Am I? If anyone is interested let me know here or on Facebook. If so, we'll start sometime Thursday afternoon or evening.
I'm ready.
So am I.
Okay, a new round will start sometime Thursday afternoon or evening. There will be two venues for the game, here on the Forum, but also simultaneously over in a Facebook group I formed for this purpose.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/353146498121636/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/353146498121636/)
Feel free to play either place, or both. Just remember to send guesses to me as either a Forum personal message or a Facebook personal message.
New round begins now. Some clues may seem a little familiar, but this is a new target.
Game is also being played on a group page on Facebook with the title "Where In Elk County Kansas Am I?" Anyone can join the group, just visit the page and request to join and I'll ad you in.
Okay, here we go. Remember to respond in personal messages to me, rather than post publicly, that way others can continue playing.
First clue is to narrow down what area of the county I am in. Subsequent clues will focus on the precise spot.
I'm somewhere in a current township that has retained the name of one of the original three townships of Howard County. Where In Elk County Am I?
Okay, we've had some guesses, (over on FB) most in the form of personal messages. Of the ten current townships of Elk County, two retain their names from when they were first created, when the area was still Howard County. I'm 99% certain that Old Boston (a guess) was in what was called Belleville township, and that name still exists as a township of Chautauqua County that now contains the towns of Peru and Chautauqua, but originally encompassed that vast majority of what is now Chautauqua County.
One of the two townships referenced is Elk Falls, but the target that I have this time is actually in the other, which Janet Weyrauch Harrington has yet to guess.
Next actual clue, and the last for this evening - Young Laura and little Willie were the first to stay here, in 1871.
The future site of Boston, Kansas, 4.5 miles south of Moline was in Belleville Township, which covered all of present day Chautauqua County and also extended a few miles into the south part of what is now Elk County.
But, when the town of Boston was founded in 1871, Centre Township was created and Boston became the township seat. Centre Township extended north a few miles into what is now Elk County.
When Elk and Chautauqua came into being, Boston was split in two with the north half of the town in Elk County, Wildcat Township and the south half in Chautauqua County, Centre Township.
The north half of Boston had its own Elk County voting precinct and voted for Howard as the county seat.
Thanks, Waldo. I couldn't remember if the second round of townships had been designated before or after the founding of Boston. When they did the second round, did they utilize the Public Land Survey system to delineate with? I know several accounts that speak of the first division of Howard County into the three townships state the lines between townships were the drainage divides between Indian Creek, Elk River, and Caney River, as the land had not been surveyed yet. Is that your take also? If they did utilize the drainages originally, did they include the Salt Creek basin in with Elk Falls township since it eventually empties into Elk River (in Montgomery County) or did they throw it in Belleville.
The northern nine miles of Howard County survey completion was in early 1869. A year later when the county was organized they knew the eastern and western range line that formed the other original township you are talking about, but guessed at the southern line.
They had to guess the south boundary of Elk Falls Township, which took in what would later become Union Centre and the other northern townships, except for that other original township.
The eastern line of Belleville Township started west at the "divide between Elk and Caney" then went north by northwest to the southern boundary of the Diminished Reserve, which started nine miles from the northern Howard County boundary.
The rest of the county survey was finished in early 1871. When Boston came along they knew the surveyed boundaries of Centre Township.
Third clue - Third clue - the Osage Indians had a well established trail that passed near here as they journeyed from "Where Waters Meet" to hunting grounds in the Flint Hills and points further west. Perhaps this is a source of a local term "Wolf Trail"
Fourth Clue - If it were 1885, I'd be a mile closer to 66 than I am to 67.
Fifth clue - I can see Quail from here 24/7, and can hear them, along with pheasant and chukar fairly often.
For those who haven't figured out what township of Elk County we're in, the three original townships of Howard County were Belleville, which is now one of Chautauqua County's twelve townships, Elk Falls and Liberty. The target is in Liberty Township.
There have been two correct guesses so far, both were after clue two. Clues three, four and five have elicited some guesses that are very close to the target, but not quite there yet.
Clue six - Young Laura and little Willie were here in 1871. Their brother, sister and grandmother joined them in 1877, and their grandmother just over a year later.
Clue seven, and last one (I hope)
To parody a HeeHaw tune - Where oh where are you tonight? Why did you leave us here in the ground? I searched Liberty township and thought I found Flint Oak, head west just a bit and then you'll be done.
Sorry, I goofed in clue six - Laura and Willie's brother, sister, and GRANDFATHER joined them in 1877, with grandma a year later. Thanks to Brother Dan for pointing out my mistake. That's what big brothers are for!
Do we have anymore guesses? I'm out of clues, other than a photograph that will reveal where we're at. So I'll post that this evening around 6.
I know! I know! You are on Quail Road just west of Flint Oak Ranch.
Wade Cemetery, about an eighth of a mile south of Quail Road on Road 25, Liberty Township, Elk County Kansas. N 37.54391 W 96.08834 or SWQ of NWQ of NWQ Section 10, Township 29S, Range 12E. Land that comprises Flint Oak surrounds the cemetery on the north, east, and south. First burials were members of the Wade family in 1871, last burial was in 1931.
In the snip of the topographical map of the area, forgive my freehand mouse writing. Circled spot in the right hand portion of snip is the main entrance to Flint Oak.
Dan Durbin and David Alexander were the first two to identify the location as Wade Cemetery, both after the second clue. Tim Moore (Marcia's husband) was the next to figure it out, followed by Janet Harrington.
We'll play again in a couple weeks, but I may do a rerun of one we've already played on the Forum for the folks on the FB group page next week.