It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".
So says President Barack Obama. Or I should say: Barack Hussein Obama.
That's right: Barack Hussein Obama. Say it proud. Say it out loud. The middle moniker that dared not speak its name during the election campaign is now front and center of the US president's attempt to woo the Muslim world, the theme of his visits to Riyadh on Wednesday and Cairo on Thursday.
Petrified of the potential political fallout of being branded a Muslim, Candidate Obama - a practicing Christian - never used the name "Hussein" and its use was frowned upon as a forbidden code for the nutty accusation that he was some kind of Islamic Manchurian candidate.
No more. To say Barack Hussein Obama - BHO for short - now appears to be the height of political correctness.
As I argue in this analysis for the Telegraph dead tree edition, Obama is seeking to return to a Middle East policy based on realism - buttressed by the bona fides of his own multi-cultural (including Muslim) background.
In Strasbourg two months ago, the president tried out his full name. Days later in Ankara, he was introduced to the Turkish parliament by his full name.
As ABC's Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller astutely outline here, the Obama administration is embracing the new president's inner Muslim, as it were. Deputy national security adviser stated that Obama had "experienced Islam on three continents...growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father -- obviously Muslim Americans [are] a key part of Illinois and Chicago".
So that's once, twice, three times a Muslim?
Just in case the Arab world hasn't yet got this message of inbuilt tolerance, Mr Obama himself has gone a step further. In an interview with France's Canal Plus released on Tuesday evening, he suggested that the United States might be a Muslim country.
Obama said he wanted to "create a better dialogue so that the Muslim world understands more effectively how the United States but also how the West thinks about many of these difficult issues like terrorism, like democracy, to discuss the framework for what's happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and our outreach to Iran, and also how we view the prospects for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians".
So far, so blah - President George W. Bush often expressed much the same sentiments.
But then, as is his habit , Obama turned the concept around. "Now, the flip side is I think that the United States and the West generally, we have to educate ourselves more effectively on Islam.
"And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. And so there's got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples."
Obama said in Turkey that Americans "do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation". John McCain was criticised in 2007 for saying the US was "a Christian nation", later amending this to "a Judeo-Christian valued nation".
Of course, the concept of separation of church and state, which derived from the First Amendment to the Constitution, means that the US is not officially a Christian nation or a nation of any other particular religion. Which means, I suppose, that the US is as much a Muslim nation as a Christian one.
It's a bold - some might say audacious - turnaround by the president.
It's also a classically Obamaesque move.
During the 2008 campaign, he skillfully made himself, through his life story, the personification of change.
Now, implicitly contrasting himself with the born-again, evangelical Bush who pursued a post-9/11 "crusade" against terrorism, Obama is presenting himself to the Islamic world as the personification of a new, tolerant - and, yes, partly Muslim - America.
UPDATE: The excellent Don Surber crunches the numbers and points out that Obama's claim is highly dubious. According to Surber, the US has an estimated three to eight million Muslims, less than one per cent of the world's total and less than at least 23 other countries.
The average claim for the US Muslim population is about six million. The precise figure is difficult to get because it's not included in US census data and many put the figure at much, much less.
But even if we assume there are six million Muslims in the US, that makes it only the 34th biggest Muslim country in the world - behind Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, China, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Tanzania, Syria, Malaysia, Niger, Senegal, Ghana, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso and Tajikistan.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world
Not to be picky, but wouldn't we be the only "Muslim American" country in the world, so it wouldn't matter how big it was? If they lived somewhere else they'd be Muslim German or Muslim French or something. If he really meant just plain Muslim, of any nationality, then we aren't it, of course. There are also many, Muslims who aren't Arabs. All the many, many black Muslims here, like Mohammed Ali, aren't Arabs. I don't think he is a closet terrorist. I'm really sorry his mother handicapped with that name. Would you want to be named Adolf? My life long friend who has one home in Chicago and the other in Arizona is a Catholic/ Jewish combo, but she didn't become labeled a Muslim just because there are a lot of Muslims there. It's a big city, there is a lot of everybody there. There is certainly some truth in the article, but I think a lot of it got lost in useless verbage.
I didn't write the article.. I just posted it for Food for thought.
Actually...
I don't believe for a second that the Muslim world is going to buy that the USA is a "Muslim Nation." Maybe we should ask Osama what he thinks about BHO's comment. He may be able to dupe the mindless hordes here in the US but I give the world a bit more credit.
But it is disturbing to hear the President ignore our true history.
I think I heard BHO say on an open mic, "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
Osama has the gonads to say what he thinks...........
Barry the puppet weasel says what he thinks that audience wants to hear.
Noo..correction...... What George Soros and Nancy Pelosi tell him to say. 8)
"I thought it was very important to come to the place where Islam began and to seek his majesty's counsel," Obama said. Obama visits Saudi king before high stakes speech. Yahoo.news
Could someone please tell me why the american president sought out the counsel of a saudi king? Notice he didn't say that he wanted to talk to the king, or discuss certain issues,...no, he wanted the kings counsel. And why in the hell does he think we need to improve relations with muslims? I think that the attacks on 9/11, the beheading of American soldiers, the targeting of our allies, not to mention the cold blooded shooting of two army soldiers in littlerock, pretty much sum up what muslims think about America. Then again, pretty much shunning Isreal and siding with the arabs sums up how BHO feels about america.
Apparently you are either too blind, or just don't care, but not all of the Muslim world is at war with us.
Just seems to me that seeing as how it was MUSLIMS that attacked US, they should be the one looking to make amends.
It was not the Muslim world that attacked us, it was a group of Muslims........ Perhaps you missed that part of it? I guess I don't understand how the Muslim world should be apologizing for the actions of a few..... You have stated the US should not apologize for its actions, that were in most cases sanctioned by the government, yet the Muslim world has to apologize for the actions of the few.... I am confused here.
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 03, 2009, 08:44:21 PM
It was not the Muslim world that attacked us, it was a group of Muslims........ Perhaps you missed that part of it? I guess I don't understand how the Muslim world should be apologizing for the actions of a few..... You have stated the US should not apologize for its actions, that were in most cases sanctioned by the government, yet the Muslim world has to apologize for the actions of the few.... I am confused here.
lets see how many that hijacked followed islam, how many islamic jihadists attacked the cole, how many islamic jihadists took down planes over the years. Yes it is islam. Islam is hell bent on conquering all countries.
IF islam doesn't sanction the actions of the few, then where is the public outcry from the believers. On 9/11 i saw celebration in the streets of the attack. Kinda funny way to protest the actions of the few isn't it?
Quote from: srkruzich on June 03, 2009, 08:47:29 PM
Quote from: jerry wagner on June 03, 2009, 08:44:21 PM
It was not the Muslim world that attacked us, it was a group of Muslims........ Perhaps you missed that part of it? I guess I don't understand how the Muslim world should be apologizing for the actions of a few..... You have stated the US should not apologize for its actions, that were in most cases sanctioned by the government, yet the Muslim world has to apologize for the actions of the few.... I am confused here.
lets see how many that hijacked followed islam, how many islamic jihadists attacked the cole, how many islamic jihadists took down planes over the years. Yes it is islam. Islam is hell bent on conquering all countries.
IF islam doesn't sanction the actions of the few, then where is the public outcry from the believers. On 9/11 i saw celebration in the streets of the attack. Kinda funny way to protest the actions of the few isn't it?
That does not answer my question. It has been previously stated (and I am paraphrasing) that the US should not apologize for the actions of its citizens/servicemen/etc. at any point in time, but that the Muslim world should apologize for the actions of a few of its citizens.
Only a few muslims....so only a few muslims raised enough money to fund those attacks? only a few muslims want to eliminate isreal and the US? only a few muslims are responsible for the deaths of thousands of people?
A few here has the meaning of not the majority nor the majority of countries.
Ok, Jerry, I agree with that. However, why should the US reachout to them in an effort to better our relationship with them? What are the benefits of an improved relation with muslim countries?
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on June 04, 2009, 07:20:06 AM
Ok, Jerry, I agree with that. However, why should the US reachout to them in an effort to better our relationship with them? What are the benefits of an improved relation with muslim countries?
cheaper oil? new markets for american products, continued financial support (they buy our debt),
Most importantly, there is a struggle going on in the middle east between different factions of Islam. There are moderates and there are extremists. If we work with the moderates, they will overpower the extremists, which will make America safer. Seems pretty simple to me.
The vast majority of muslims worldwide are friends of the US. They actually share a lot of the principals and values that we do. Don't be so ignorant and close-minded to think that "they hate you for your freedom"
Cheaper oil???...We have an abundance of our own oil, why not drill here? Not only would that cut down on our dependence on foregin nations, it would also provide jobs and improve our economy.
What exactly is a moderate muslim? Do these moderates allow their women the freedom to get and education, dress how they want, etc?
If these "friends" share the same principles and values, why haven't they put down the exteremists yet? Why have they allowed the contuined brutalaty that exists in alot of their countries?
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on June 05, 2009, 01:46:00 AM
Cheaper oil???...We have an abundance of our own oil, why not drill here? Not only would that cut down on our dependence on foregin nations, it would also provide jobs and improve our economy.
What exactly is a moderate muslim? Do these moderates allow their women the freedom to get and education, dress how they want, etc?
If these "friends" share the same principles and values, why haven't they put down the exteremists yet? Why have they allowed the contuined brutalaty that exists in alot of their countries?
Billy, there is only one way to stop it. wiping them off the face of the earth is impossible. The only wya to stop islam ideology is to change it.
To change it you have to start with the young, and educate them. The older ones are lost. Turkey changed the ideology of convert or die. They did it by outlawing the terrorist schools for the young, and forcing controlled public education. They eliminated all those little fundy schools that were teaching the young about jihad and suicide bombings and such and it worked out. They changed an entire generation.
Same thing is going on in iraq. Schools have been built and children go to these schools and gain a education not a indoctrination.
That is why President bush said this war we are in for the long haul. It will take 20 -40 years to change things
Billy, most of the Muslims around here are what you would call moderate.The women do as they please. Their dress is up to them. They decide themselves how they want to define themselves. Some do wear typical Muslim clothing, some just wear head scarves, some wear every day clothing with no head covering. Aside from farming, which I don't think they do, they have the same jobs, shops and businesses as everyone else. Many are engineers at Du Pont and Hercules, Pharmacologists and researchers at ICI, etc. or work at U. D.The women work or don't according to what the family needs are just like the rest of us.
Diane, I wasn't talking about the muslims that live in the U.S. I know that there are muslims who are actually peaceful people who don't beat their wives or anything like that. I was referring to the radicals. You can't change people like that.
Srkruzich, I agree that it is the children we have to reach. The problem is that this cannot be accomplished without the adults in those countries willing to put down the exteremists. And they are not going to do that. If they were they would have already done it.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on June 05, 2009, 01:53:23 PM
Diane, I wasn't talking about the muslims that live in the U.S. I know that there are muslims who are actually peaceful people who don't beat their wives or anything like that. I was referring to the radicals. You can't change people like that.
Srkruzich, I agree that it is the children we have to reach. The problem is that this cannot be accomplished without the adults in those countries willing to put down the exteremists. And they are not going to do that. If they were they would have already done it.
Well billy that is what we are doing in Iraq. By building a public school system, they can shut down the islam schools that have been breeding terrorists.
One country at a time is what it will take.
Srkruzich, I hope you are right, but I am not going to hold my breath on it.