I think it will be a little while before we see too many changes. Obama won't be sworn in until January. In the meantime, I hope he will be picking good advisers and cabinet people to start chipping away at our huge national debt and working on getting the failing economy on an upward turn. Hopefully there will be incentives to stop shipping jobs overseas and encouraging manufacturing jobs here. I hope he will really get going on energy, especially natural gas and wind. He'll probably put Joe to work on foreign affairs right away and try to do something to stabilize our situation in the middle east. Pakistan is a big worry. I don't think we'll see tax increases, but we may see program cuts. There are many roads to the same place, we'll have to see which ones he uses. I know the big cities are frantic to do something about gun violence, but I don't think the average gun owner has much to worry about. I'm sure genuine collectors and re-enactment groups will be fine. I know all my neighbors and I don't think they are out to get me. We have reverse 911 and if something out of the ordinary is going on we get a call. Our police know who are the local creeps and characters are and do a good job of keeping them out of our hair...that's all local, and should stay that way. I did ask some young friends why they didn't vote for John McCain and they said he is too old for a second term so why bother, they didn't want to risk Sarah, don't want another Bush, in spite of what McCain says about being a maverick...whatever that meant. They're afraid his hot head reputation would get us all into more international trouble and they really despised the way his campaign managers went for all the personal dirt instead of solid political differences. They really hated the bigotry, racial and ethnic slurs. Now remember, Newark is a college town, so the students tend to be more liberal in their thinking.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 06, 2008, 10:05:54 AM
I know the big cities are frantic to do something about gun violence, but I don't think the average gun owner has much to worry about. I'm sure genuine collectors and re-enactment groups will be fine.
Diane ..with all due respect.. you are #1 top when it comes to information on fires and medical stuff.....but in this area..
well ..you don't have all your facts...and you are not alone. A huge amount of people do not really and truly understand or care to go too far into it, because "they have their gun" and they think that all the other stuff that goes along with it. will never happen or doesn't apply to them. I could go on and on.. but I won't. I don't think anyone in this forum ( aside for a couple people ) really care and don't understand the whole of it.. so I am going to not go into it. I'm pretty much to the point now that .. no one really wants or cares about the actual laws or the finding out the whole truth of much of anything.. so this old blond woman isn't going to argue much anymore.
Like I say.. there is no disrespect to any of you for your views because of your lack of knowledge on this subject..
but.... collectors and re-enactment groups ..are the farthest thing from 2nd amendment issues.
The very very farthest.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 06, 2008, 10:05:54 AM
I know the big cities are frantic to do something about gun violence, but I don't think the average gun owner has much to worry about. I'm sure genuine collectors and re-enactment groups will be fine.
Hi Diane,
The 200,000 collectors and reenactors in this country are probably not the main target for the next four years, but over 80 million gun owners are.
Listen to this 10 minute sound bite explaining why:
Now if you or anyone else can guarantee me and the rest of the 80 million gun owners that when Obama enters the White House in January, the warrior of change will automatically change his mind about his definition of the Second Amendment, I will rest my case.
Hey, it is a real possibility that that COULD happen y'know...not just because of Obama but just because of the attitudes of people in general ! It is one of the most important personal freedoms we have is the right to have the ability to protect OURSELVES instead of waitin for somebody who's "qualified" to have a gun to come take our bodies away.
??? the thing I was replyin to disappeared! ???
No it didnt Pam sorry hit wrong button honey.....BLahblahblahblah they are going to take our guns away blah blah blah what about our guns its the same thing over and over give it a rest the man just got elected President of the United States people.... Your pride or your stupiditiy wont even give the man a chance at all..... Its old find something new to bitch about people something we havent heard over and over and over.. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 06, 2008, 01:46:02 PM
No it didnt Pam sorry hit wrong button honey.....BLahblahblahblah they are going to take our guns away blah blah blah what about our guns its the same thing over and over give it a rest the man just got elected President of the United States people.... Your pride or your stupiditiy wont even give the man a chance at all..... Its old find something new to bitch about people something we havent heard over and over and over.. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Just out of curiosity....is this directed at me? or just repeatin what you deleted?
Oh and I do believe in protecting myself and my children.....And I grew up with guns and having them in my home so Im not Anti-guns wwhatsoever I just believe we havent given him a chance to even see what actually he is going to do we just heard alot of crap that happens during a election some true some not true so we will have to see....Its just so negative all the time on here anymore people have lost their minds thought after the election it might calm down abit but it hasnt. Its the same ol same ol like I said before. No pam it wasnt directed at you I was repeating myself sorry didnt want it to come off like that.....THe whole Blah Blah was the start of the new one people....
I actually like you alot Pam I find you very interesting in a good way. :laugh: :P ;D
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 06, 2008, 01:46:02 PM
.... Your pride or your stupiditiy wont even give the man a chance at all..... Its old find something new to bitch about people something we havent heard over and over and over.. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Howell4ever,
I am one of those who will fight by your side you so you can exercise your first amendment rights even when you question my concerns about the second amendment and call it stupidity. Concerns is what it is. If you also want to brand it negativity, that's your decision.
Obama is elected and by that given the chance to prove himself along with his administration. That doesn't mean that both sides of the political aisle lose the right to put him to test on both promises and records. It's part of the democracy. Giving him a chance does not mean we should give him a blind loyalty, the same principle applies when you have a republican in the white house. We can decide to trust a candidate during a political campaign based on rhetoric, but when it's time to deliver, we should all a be watchdogs no matter who we voted for.
Part of my profession is related to the second amendment and I am obligated to share my experience and knowledge. It is based on over 20 years of studies and experience on two different continents and where I have learned the following: Do not take what you consider privileges or rights for granted no matter who governs. And one more thing.... blind loyalty is a democracy's worst enemy and it applies to us all.... liberals, conservatives and independents.
Being involved in public safety all these years, and teaching at 3 police academies, (National Guard too) I hear it all on all sides. I know lots of police, law enforcement officers and people from agencies with 2 and 3 initials. A number are retired now so they tend to talk more openly. They make it pretty clear that they'd like to be able to out gun the bad guys with more fire power than they have, and they are very concerned about "civilians" waving around their weapons after calling 911. I've had a number of times myself when some drunk who has called the ambulance answers the door with a gun in his hand. Oh, joy! Now I have to protect me first and try to get the weapon secured before we can do our job. Usually I've been successful, but a few times we've had to back out. People in red rages are scary! Al had one where a drugged out drunk threw a hot water tank out through the front storm door!
Some people are just going to be in harms way more often because of what they do. But do they need to encounter a nut with an assault rifle? I don't know, and I'll admit to not having all the "facts," nor any of the answers., But what do you tell a city resident who loses a child to an accidental street shooting?....I sure don't have the answer. I can't even keep drunk drivers off the road or keep teens from texting while driving. I have no doubt the NRA will be lobbying as strongly as ever. Yes, Al was a member for many, many years. Somehow I don't think the writers of the second amendment had today's sophisticated weapons in mind. Maybe I think dealing with who you think you need to protect yourself from is more of an issue than how you do it. Many small town people talk about never locking their doors, but yet are armed to the teeth in case "they" come. Sometimes it seems to be a tempest in a teapot. I'd like to wait awhile and see if what Obama thought on a state level is different from what may be appropriate on a national level.
Well give him the chance to prove himself then Im not sitting here asking anyone to be a loyal supporter...Ive been called a idiot a antiAmerican been told to drive without my lights on at night just because I was a Democrat on here so i will take back the studitity comment and leave it as just your pride getting in your way on giving him a chance...I said I do believe in the right to own a gun and to be able to protect yourself regardless I am just saying once again Blah Blah Blah its been said over and over and over again. we know where you stand we know you have knowledge and experience its been said... there are alot of smart experienced people on here that are republican democrat independent etc.......And I did stand behind Bush while he was in office did I like him Hell No did I share his believes No but he was my President did I bash him No but I did make fun of his speech alot cause it was funny thats all....SO there you go thats all for now
Okay, here is my two cents worth. Gun rights are like other rights, fraught with responsibilities. Lots of gun owners no doubt think it is an attack on their rights to not be allowed to own a machine gun without special permits etc. I for one, cannot think of a single reason for a private citizen to own an Uzi or AK47. A shotgun is about the best there is for home defense, but of course that is my own opinion. Guns have become a problem on the street, there is just no denying that. What is the solution offered by the NRA? Is there one? I would be interested to hear that solution.
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 06, 2008, 01:58:13 PM
I actually like you alot Pam I find you very interesting in a good way. :laugh: :P ;D
Ooooook lol.
QuoteGuns have become a problem on the street, there is just no denying that. What is the solution offered by the NRA? Is there one? I would be interested to hear that solution.
I agree there are responsibilities attached to gun ownership. Instead of lockin em up and tellin my kids don't touch I educated them EARLY. Same as my Dad did me. But one thing I truly believe is that outlawin guns is a HUGE exercise in futility. Any gang-banger with some money can buy whatever they want from somebody who doesn't give a crap what they are gonna do with it. The only people laws confine are law-abidin people. Same as lockin your door...it's only gonna keep honest people out. The other guy is gonna kick it in and do what they want. It's just common sense to me....but like I've said before that's just my opinion
Quote from: sixdogsmom on November 06, 2008, 03:23:17 PMmachine gun
That's the error in your thinking right there. The previous bans and issues are not on machine guns (which mean fully automatic). No, they banned semi-automatic "assault" rifles. They are no different from any other semi-automatic gun out there. All of them can kill equally as well.
Another big beef of mine is with "sniper" rifles. There is no such thing as a sniper rifle. A sniper is a person with exceptionally accurate shooting skills. A sniper would be able to take most any rifle and hit their target with great accuracy (within the limits of the gun of course). All of the popular hunting rifles could most definitely be "sniper" rifles. That is another big issue with some politicians out there.
QuoteI for one, cannot think of a single reason for a private citizen to own an Uzi or AK47.
The AK47 is an excellent choice in that they are very, very abundant making them generally inexpensive. On top of that, the ammunition they use is also very inexpensive. It makes stocking up cheap, sport shooting cheap, hobby shooting cheap, etc. They generally are rather reliable and very simple. Those are big reasons why they are popular. On top of that... seriously, how many murders have you heard of with an AK47 or similar assault rifle compared to handguns. I guaranty the number of deaths by handguns will far outweigh that of assault rifles, here in the U.S.
Then of course the fact still remains, like Pam said above... if you outlaw them, only outlaws will have them. Gun laws DO NOT keep guns out of criminals' hands, only out of the law abiding.
Quote from: sixdogsmomA shotgun is about the best there is for home defense
I absolutely agree with you there. I love shotguns, especially for home defense. Aiming them is very simple and the regular bird shot type shells are much less likely to penetrate walls, going into other rooms. One problem though... size. Generally shotguns are rather long, like rifles of course, making them difficult to use indoors in case of emergency. This could be easily solved with very short shotguns but naturally... those are banned. You can, in some states, get a simple $5 "stamp" that allows you to buy a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18" but last I checked Kansas doesn't allow those at all. They don't allow any gun classified as an AOW (any other weapon, which is what short shotguns were put in to).
I do personally have a short shotgun with an 18.5" barrel and a pistol grip, which would greatly improve indoor use but still believe a very short one would make it much easier, similar to a handgun.
Regardless, I love shotguns for home defense. What's also cool about them is you can empty the shot from the shell and put some rock salt in them to make for a very painful but non-lethal shot just in case you're only looking to temporarily maim. ;D
Quote from: Kjell H. on November 06, 2008, 12:06:14 PM
Now if you or anyone else can guarantee me and the rest of the 80 million gun owners that when Obama enters the White House in January, the warrior of change will automatically change his mind about his definition of the Second Amendment, I will rest my case.[/b]
Always is possible Kjell, he changed his mind on a number of issues.....Public financing, Iraq surge, etc....
Damn...laugh a little people. I haven't visited this area of the forum for a while but it would appear some perspective is needed. Information is awesome and informative, but opinions are like a^*holes, everyones got one and they all smell the same. It is good to vent those opinions, but without the blood pressure raising!
Dan makes a couple of good points. Perspective is needed. This forum allows us to vent our fears, I think it also let's us explore our beliefs\ideas etc. Sometimes we go overboard, sometimes there is not enough space to really discuss an issue. I think most of us forget that on occasion. What I do know is I can depend on each and everyone of you. That is the most important point. We are lucky we have the freedom to argue, hurt each others feelings unintentionally, have fun, you all get my point. What I am saying is I appreciate you all and I think this forum is a special place.
David
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 06, 2008, 03:15:17 PM
Well give him the chance to prove himself then Im not sitting here asking anyone to be a loyal supporter...Ive been called a idiot a antiAmerican been told to drive without my lights on at night just because I was a Democrat on here so i will take back the studitity comment and leave it as just your pride getting in your way on giving him a chance...I said I do believe in the right to own a gun and to be able to protect yourself regardless I am just saying once again Blah Blah Blah its been said over and over and over again. we know where you stand we know you have knowledge and experience its been said... there are alot of smart experienced people on here that are republican democrat independent etc.......And I did stand behind Bush while he was in office did I like him Hell No did I share his believes No but he was my President did I bash him No but I did make fun of his speech alot cause it was funny thats all....SO there you go thats all for now
OMG...I can't even put a JOKE on here without someone taking offense...which is why I tried to put disclaimers on things that were JOKES!! Jeez people, put your thinking caps on and your "big girl" panties and DEAL WITH IT!! Quit trying to make "CRAP" out of NOTHING!!
Crap out of nothing thats all anyone does on here lately :-*Id put my big girl panties on but I dont wear panties binds me up and my thoughts are restricted!!! LOL! LOL! LOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: dnalexander on November 06, 2008, 07:11:27 PM
Dan makes a couple of good points. Perspective is needed. This forum allows us to vent our fears, I think it also let's us explore our beliefs\ideas etc. Sometimes we go overboard, sometimes there is not enough space to really discuss an issue. I think most of us forget that on occasion. What I do know is I can depend on each and everyone of you. That is the most important point. We are lucky we have the freedom to argue, hurt each others feelings unintentionally, have fun, you all get my point. What I am saying is I appreciate you all and I think this forum is a special place.
David
I agree David :)
I've never thought my opinions were "crap", but if that's the case, I'll take my east coast ideas and disappear into the sunrise.
Don't do THAT Diane!!!! :o
Diane -
As a liberal Democrat living in Howard, KS - I'm often told my ideas are "crap."
Usually I keep my mouth shut and just keep on doing.
When you look at the whole picture, maybe us'ns are what make life work.
Without fertilizer, nothing grows! :D ;D :D ;D :D
Diane dont go and dissapear on us... I didnt mean it to come out like everyones ideas were crap because they are not... Everyone on here have their own ideas their own thoughts and believe what they want thats the good thing about America is that we all have the right to our own way of thinking... Others including myself have taken offence in the past to things people have wrote on here and people have gotten angry and frustrated and its just time for all that CRAP too change or lighten up abit thats all....Thats what I think anyway thats it no biggie!!! Thats why I put the whole LOL on there I was just playing around not being serious...And the restricting panties means alot of times my thoughts sometimes come from my ass and not my head if any of you get that hahaha.....So everyone have a good day and God bless America . LIFE IS ONLY WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT!!!! So breath in the air and enjoy...
That's much better! :laugh:
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 06, 2008, 01:46:02 PMBLahblahblahblah they are going to take our guns away blah blah blah what about our guns its the same thing over and over give it a rest the man just got elected President of the United States people.... Your pride or your stupiditiy wont even give the man a chance at all..... Its old find something new to bitch about people something we havent heard over and over and over..
And so it begins...
Originally posted here: http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/
But that page has been temporarily removed because of already stupid ideas they want to implement that got a lot of criticism.
Anyway... you can now see it here (http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:IcYml6GIwSAJ:change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/+http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us).
QuoteAddress Gun Violence in Cities:
As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
Quote from: NRA-ILA"Making the expired federal assault weapons ban (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=238) permanent." Perhaps no other firearm issue has been more dishonestly portrayed by gun prohibitionists. Notwithstanding their predictions that the ban's expiration in 2004 would bring about the end of civilization, for the last four years the nation's murder rate has been lower than anytime since the mid-1960s. Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the National Institute of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that gun prohibition or gun control reduces crime. Guns that were affected by the ban are used in only a tiny fraction of violent crime-about 35 times as many people are murdered without any sort of firearm (knives, bare hands, etc.), as with "assault weapons." Obama says that "assault weapons" are machine guns that "belong on foreign battlefields," but that is a lie; the guns are only semi-automatic, and they are not used by a military force anywhere on the planet.
"Repeal the Tiahrt Amendment." The amendment (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=208)--endorsed by the Fraternal Order of Police (http://www.nraila.org//Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?ID=2950)--prohibits the release of federal firearm tracing information to anyone other than a law enforcement agency conducting a bona fide criminal investigation. Anti-gun activists oppose the restriction, because it prevents them from obtaining tracing information and using it in frivolous lawsuits against law-abiding firearm manufacturers. Their lawsuits seek to obtain huge financial judgments against firearm manufacturers when a criminal uses a gun to inflict harm, even though the manufacturers have complied with all applicable laws.
"Closing the gun show loophole." There is no "loophole." (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=247&issue=014) Under federal law, a firearm dealer must conduct a background check on anyone to whom he sells a gun, regardless of where the sale takes place. A person who is not a dealer may sell a gun from his personal collection without conducting a check. Gun prohibitionists claim that many criminals obtain guns from gun shows, though the most recent federal survey of convicted felons put the figure at only 0.7 percent. They also claim that non-dealers should be required to conduct checks when selling guns at shows, but the legislation they support goes far beyond imposing that lone requirement. In fact, anti-gun members of Congress voted against that limited measure, holding out for a broader bill intended to drive shows out of business.
"Making guns in this country childproof." "Childproof" is a codeword for a variety of schemes designed to prevent the sale of firearms by imposing impossible or highly expensive design requirements (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=38), such as biometric shooter-identification systems. While no one opposes keeping children safe, the fact is that accidental firearm-related deaths (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=242) among children have decreased 86 percent since 1975, even as the numbers of children and guns have risen dramatically. Today, the chances of a child being killed in a firearm accident are less than one in a million.
This is only the beginning... :'(
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Im over and done with the negative things thank you for trying to keep it up though. ;D ::) ::)
So sad...............
That anything said with Proof to back it up ...that goes against the Liberal agenda is considered negative by some.
Anyone can scream their opinion..and laugh mindlessly when they are uninformed.. Blowing it off as negative or racist or use the "whatever syndrome"
But you took the time to answer the post with some valid information...that can be backed up with documentation.
That is some honest information that related to this topic.
Thanks for stepping up to the plate Mark
I appreciate and commend your knowledge and your efforts. :)
what I meant by the IM DONE WITH NEGATIVE THINGS was that I am not going to get involved in any more back and forth comments to anyone on here anymore..... Didnt say anything was racist or negative out of anything said sorry..THATS ALL! I believe what I believe in you believe in what you do Im not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine at all. You believe your well informed I believe Im well informed... You have issues that are more important to you and I have issues that are more important to me. So its not a whatever syndrome its a Im done getting into it for nothing syndrome.. ;D
Your neighbor's vision is as true for him as your own vision is true for you.
- Miguel de Unamuno
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 11, 2008, 07:32:15 PM
what I meant by the IM DONE WITH NEGATIVE THINGS was that I am not going to get involved in any more back and forth comments to anyone on here anymore..... Didnt say anything was racist or negative out of anything said sorry..THATS ALL! I believe what I believe in you believe in what you do Im not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine at all. You believe your well informed I believe Im well informed... You have issues that are more important to you and I have issues that are more important to me. So its not a whatever syndrome its a Im done getting into it for nothing syndrome.. ;D
No. You're trying to run away from the discussion. You said:
QuoteBLahblahblahblah they are going to take our guns away blah blah blah what about our guns its the same thing over and over give it a rest the man just got elected President of the United States people.... Your pride or your stupiditiy wont even give the man a chance at all..... Its old find something new to bitch about people something we havent heard over and over and over..
I posted that the man whom isn't even President yet is already wanting to start taking guns away then I posted why those were horrible decisions. Then you come in saying what I posted is negative and you won't be a part of it... instead of submitting that you were indeed incorrect.
Now, I'm in no way trying to pull a "I told you so" deal. What I AM trying to do is to make sure everyone knows of his poor plans for this country. You may call it "negative", but if NOTHING gets posted about poor plans and ideas for the country... they'll go on and get passed and people will potentially suffer if those decisions do end up being poor. At least if people know about it, something can potentially be done about it or people can at the very least prepare for it.
Take the assault weapons bans for instance. It is a completely stupid idea. It will do nothing but take the assault weapons out of the hands of law abiding citizens. What a person can do about it, is be sure to write to their state's US congressmen/women and tell them to vote against the worthless ban. Granted here in Kansas our congressmen will likely do the right thing but elsewhere that may not be the case. I would write them regardless just so they can reaffirm Kansans' stance on the issue.
To make it a little closer to home, what about his plan for a Classroom Corps? Do you want the government to
require your children to serve 50 hours of community service per year when they hit middle school? How do you think that would affect you? Say they only do 1 hour each week for 50 weeks per year... doesn't seem bad but what if maybe they have to do something out of town? Around here, out of town means you're going to be doing some driving and if fuel prices spike again that could potentially hurt your wallet. Just something "negative" to think about...
QuoteTake the assault weapons bans for instance. It is a completely stupid idea. It will do nothing but take the assault weapons out of the hands of law abiding citizens. What a person can do about it, is be sure to write to their state's US congressmen/women and tell them to vote against the worthless ban. Granted here in Kansas our congressmen will likely do the right thing but elsewhere that may not be the case. I would write them regardless just so they can reaffirm Kansans' stance on the issue.
That's true. Passin laws against ANYTHING never works...congressmen out here in the heartland WILL try to keep a lid on stupid stuff..it's both coasts that see this as a good idea. In a perfect world people wouldn't shoot other people, on purpose OR by accident, but it ain't a perfect world and I have a RIGHT to protect myself and my family and my home by whatever means neccesary. But out here we are still independant enough to know that...in urban areas they expect somebody else to do it for em. Sorry if that offends any of the city folks on here but it's true.
QuoteTo make it a little closer to home, what about his plan for a Classroom Corps? Do you want the government to require your children to serve 50 hours of community service per year when they hit middle school? How do you think that would affect you? Say they only do 1 hour each week for 50 weeks per year... doesn't seem bad but what if maybe they have to do something out of town? Around here, out of town means you're going to be doing some driving and if fuel prices spike again that could potentially hurt your wallet. Just something "negative" to think about...
My kids are pretty much raised but I didn't need the government involved in raisin them at all and I have 3 grandkids that I'm pretty sure we can get raised just fine too.
These are just SOME of the reasons I couldn't convince myself to vote for Obama no matter how good a game he talked...I am NOT a ward of my government, in my mind THEY work for me and I tell THEM what I want THEM to do NOT the other way around. I've spent a lot of time on here tryin to stay in the middle ground and that's pretty much where I am on everything but the government period....Government needs to be MUCH smaller and MUCH less powerful, we let a monster grow out of a good idea and it needs it's ears trimmed back.
Dont tell me Im running from a discussion when I am not.... And I am not incorrect whatsoever, I believe I am right just as you believe you are right. I choose not to go into it with anyone anymore there is no point in it ......My views are totally different from yours!!! We will never agree on anything because our believes and our views are so different.I voted for and I am for President Obama and I am at peace with the decision of the American people .You obviously are NOT!!!! And once again I said Guns are a bigger issue for you ok I get . when I said BLAH BLAH BLAH it was because it was the exact same discussion over and over and over about guns.I grew up with guns also like everyone else in elk county. And i said you havent even given the man a chance because you havent and you probually wont...So once again Im not running from a discussion just chose not to get into it with someone that I wont agree with ever and with someone who will never agree with me so its useless to me..So cookson you can keep it going with someone who possible may agree with you or is on the fence of believing you but theres no need for us to discuss anything because I never will have the same views as you.. Im about PEACE from here on out ;D
What she said! ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D Peace and love people Peace and love ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wow... so, let me get this straight...
Quote from: Howell4ever on November 12, 2008, 12:46:31 PMDont tell me Im running from a discussion when I am not....
Quote from: Howell4everIm over and done
Quote from: Howeel4everAnd I am not incorrect whatsoever, I believe I am right
You say "give Obama a chance" after we claim him and his people are going to start taking guns away as if they won't do it... then I show that they are going to start taking them away and you believe you're still correct? I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed.
Quote......My views are totally different from yours!!! We will never agree on anything because our believes and our views are so different.I voted for and I am for President Obama and I am at peace with the decision of the American people. You obviously are NOT !! And once again I said Guns are a big issue for you ok I get that we all get that. when I said BLAH BLAH BLAH it was because it was the exact same discussion over and over and over about guns.I grew up with guns also like everyone else in elk county.
---------------
So once again Im not running from a discussion just chose not to get into it with someone that I wont agree with ever and with someone who will never agree with me so its useless to me..So cookson you can keep it going with someone who possible may agree with you or is on the fence of believing you but theres no need for us to discuss anything because I never will have the same views as you..
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I choose not to go into it with anyone anymore there is no point in it anymore
This is running because there is most certainly a point to continue doing it. Its called debate. Obama does something I don't agree with, I show why I don't agree with it and why I believe it is a bad idea. To keep the debate going, instead of running, you could have come back and said something along the lines of "I agree with Obama's decision in this matter as doing this and this could bring such and such results" and from there you could show info or data as to why you agree with it or you could even agree with what I posted or parts of what I posted or whatever you feel. That's the lovely part of debate. Show what you feel is right, even if its "negative" and even if others don't agree with it, because that's what debating politics is all about. By sticking around and debating what you believe in while backing up what you believe in, you could potentially change someone's mind... and that's what I'm trying to do with this stuff. I posted what's happening and why it is a bad decision with extra info to back it up in the hopes of maybe showing someone the truth of the matter... so that maybe we don't make the same mistake again.
QuoteAnd i said you havent even given the man a chance because you havent and you probually wont...
I didn't have to give him a chance... he's already said what he's going to do and his history shows what he's likely going to do. Its that simple and I'm just giving proof.
Thank you to everyone here, I am enjoying all your replies whether they agree with mine OR NOT!! this is what my family has been American troops for since the 1600s.
My logic is flawed wow!!!!! Guns are important to you good have at it sleep with your guns I dont give a rats ass what you do with your guns as long as you are responsible in what you do with your guns..LIke no drinking and doing drugs for example while messing with guns...THats Bad or playing games with guns thats bad too....Or showing off with guns like some do thats bad also... Being Responsible is the key to being a gun owner..You just wont stop will you even after I explained to you mtcookson that there is no reason for me to debate anything with you because it wont matter The issues that we find important are different... We all can come up with information that justifies both our believes and IM not even against Guns I have never ever ever said I was Against Guns NONONONONO all I said was BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH repeatrepeatrepeat because it was the same shit over and over and over that people were saying...........I would protect my family with a gun if it came down to it also...... Just because I am a Democrat and I voted for and stand beside Obama doesnt mean there are a few issues that I dont agree with him on.....It happens you know... I justdont believe in almost everything else that you believe in.... So Peace to you and your family and your guns ;D ;D ;D So Im ending this with a Goodbye Peace and Im heading to the political Humor its fun there..
go to political humor Ill be on that forum being silly and having fun with people..Its funnier over there anyways!!! 8) 8) :o ;) ;) :D
I think I see where you're coming from now... but you're not seeing the big picture and that is my fault.
On the outside the whole issue appears to be dealing with guns but it is much, much deeper than that. The core issue is our Constitutional rights. If they start banning guns, that means they are removing our Constitutional rights and the problem with that is... where does it end? What will they attack next... freedom of speech? No, they're already doing that actually. Religion is getting hit hard (more so intelligent design) and if they pass the Fairness Doctrine, radio will be the next to get hit hard with limitation on free speech. Anyway... like I said, the main issue is that it is an attack on our rights... not just guns. I guaranty you that nothing would make the democrats in D.C. happier than to ban all guns... and I guaranty that they will do anything and everything in their power to do that like say increasing tax on guns/ammo so much that no one can afford them. That is a big one that I think they will definitely attempt.
Speaking of the intelligent design deal above, if you believe in God you absolutely MUST watch Ben Stein's Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. It is an excellent documentary on how they are just about completely banning any mention of intelligent design... which isn't even part of any single religion, its simply the idea that life was created. What's so ironic and sad is that when you look at it... Darwinism is as much a religion as any other religion out there. Its pretty pathetic really, they get around calling it a religion but hiding it behind science. Anyway... definitely check out that movie (this goes for everyone who is a believer), its definitely an eye opener. I'm planning on buying it sometime soon so if you haven't seen by the time I get it I would be more than happy to loan it. ;)
Ban my right to smoke in public. WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ban my right to bear arms. HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just depends on which side of the fence you're on. And yes, depending on who has that firearm it could be hazardest to your health. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is what I believe is really behind all their gun related bans. They make it sound noble and naive buy making it as public safety, however they are really afraid of the uprising the Second Amendment was put in place for.
A non responsive and non representative ruler is what our Founding Fathers fought to replace, and they wanted to make sure it never returned.
What some of the founding fathers thought about gun bans.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188
"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
--James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356
" ... to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380
"The great object is, that every man be armed ... Every one who is able may have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry, Elliot, p.3:386
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is not for hunting deer and turkeys. It's more........
See how Walter Williams explains it:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams032900.asp
Another hot issue besides gun control is "talk radio". Specifically, conservative talk radio.
You basically have your 2 areas that will be targeted. The religious and the political.
I personally don't listen to Christian radio..but I know that Christian broadcasters have spent a lot of time in the recent past to try and keep themselves on the air and churches doors open if they address Biblical issues that disagree with the liberal agenda.
All of this verbal censorship ties up to what they are calling the "The Fairness Doctrine". It is just as dangerous as the strides that are being taken concerning the Assault Weapons Ban.
Watch the censorship come heavy in these avenues..!
Christian agenda might be where they start as they will slowly seep into other areas that are more difficult. ...This is not me just being paranoid. I am basing this thought off the fact they have already tried this approach, and all they need to do is dust it off and tweak it ... just like the gun bans they openly admit that they now know where they failed and how to do it "right."
I think we should be "on the alert" for things to start to unfold. An attack on one Right opens a crack that leads to attacks on all Rights! We can't let any of that happen.
It only going to get worse. Whether you listen to Christian or Conservative or any other genre on talk radio or talk TV, it doesn't matter. We all must band together to stop any assault on our rights.
It must be met with force by letters and petitions etc...and only if necessary any other action deemed fit to the threat. If we ...'wait and see'... all is lost.
Since the only way we have right now, is by communication...start writing now on any and all subjects to your congressmen, senators (state & fed) as well as Pres, VP (including elects) as well as judges (all levels)... newsmedia & any other source possible. Write one letter..make copies and send them out. Also local community education (your churches & other organizations) for the ignorant... meaning the general public who have no clue about freedoms & their encroachment.
The below link is about how Obama may go about implementing "fairness of outcome" without actually passing any legislation.
Briefly, by using existing rules and regulations, liberals can just as effectively shut down conservative talk radio through threats and intimidation as they could through passing legislation. This is the very effective tactic that Obama has used and taught others to use as part of Chicago's Developing Communities Project and Acorn in forcing banks to make loans to people otherwise unable to qualify for such loans. They even have a name for this: Alinsky jujitsu.
So using the BATFE and the Justice department, the new administration could cause force draconian rules and enforcement on FFLs, and manufacturers that would force many out of business and raise the cost of gun ownership and operation through the roof.
Just food for thought on how the new president may be able to satisfy the Brady Bunch at the same time not upsetting the democratic voting base.
Obama Declares War on Conservative Talk Radio
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/obama_declares_war_on_conserva.html