Any news a new commander? What about going to no upper management. Put GPS Units on all trucks and equipment. Post it on the web. If the roads need roading email a request. If a ditch needs ditching email a request. Put the map on the super jumbo tron computer desk and figure out when and how much each task will be. Is there a master plan out there. Or is it just squeeky wheel gets the cluvert.
Any way we can utilize the Soil Conservation service for the engineering. They know which way waters flows and how to divert it off a ag property to prevent erosion. Erosion is the water taking away the thing that you are out there wanting.
I really think that we should investigate a stewardship approach road work. Keep what we have viable by not wasteing it. My biggest suggestion is to ask why don't we leave the gravel in the rock quarry until we need it. Why do we have to stockpile it along the side of the road so the water can't get to the ditch.
Do we have to drive county gravel trucks down the highway at highway speeds? Why couldn't you run larger off road trucks and drive them in the ditch to smash down the trees. You wouldn't have to worry about the brush we already don't worry about that has taken over the bar. A bar ditch is not a way to get a hooters girl away from a randy patron. The big tires cause the "track" to move to the outsides of the roadway. Every one knows that in Elk county the water runs down the track not the ditch.
Penny Swanson(7th grade math) Word Problem: If diesel is $5 a gallon and a 10 wheel truck hauls 15 tons and a 18 wheeled truck hauls 25 tons. Assuming each truck has a diesel engine and each has one driver which one is more efficent? Could we replace the duals on each truck and trailer with new energy efficent X one super tires. That would put the number of tires back to 10 on each unit so as to not cause any change. Change is bad?!!?
You don't have prison labor out there to clean out the ditches?
PEP - I told you the position is open... you have all the necessary requirements... maybe more than the last guy - come on - you are always looking for a challenge.....
Can I paint the truck Cat yellow?
Of course you can dear............ ::)
:angel: If we could have a bake sale for inspiration. Food for thought.
Does any one have a problem with running the road graders and weed movers at night. You can afford the really cushy chairs? I am being groomed for school board. After all the #$@ eatings you take at that job I need to be prepared.
What are the stock options? Do I get my driveway paved? Can I have one of those cool reflective vests and a elk county hard hat? Does it also include crapper inspector? I only know 2 things about that.
Patrick, you are for sure Elk County's own Energizer Bunny...you just don't have an off switch, do you? :laugh: :laugh: Yes, you are a shoe-in for the School Board or any other Board that you would decide to run for...there aren't enough people like you, in my considered opinion! ;D :D ;D
Patrick, the Energizer Bunny ! :angel:
I played the saxaphone. Not the bass drum.
Barisax to be exact.
I am more of a crome dome than a copper top.
I think the pressure is on. There has been more gravel dumped on my road in the last week than has been bladed in to the ditch in ten years. What ever is causing it? Can you bring out the fancy lawnmower on a stick and take care of the over grown hedge rows? Don't culverts need cute little badges to tell the world they exist. I think every culvert needs a name. Sedan has yellow sidewalks. Name the culvert. Would you paint graffiti if the bridge was named after your grand ma? How many bridges are there. We could use recycled the plastic bottles for the signs from the solid waste dept. Do we have one of those? The plastic is supposed to last for hundreds of years unlike the culvert.
Take a breath Patrick.. ....Take a breath, and enjoy your gravel .. LOL
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/earsoffmoose.gif)
(((Can I put my Grandma's name on the bridge list? huh?? Huh?? Can I ?? )))
Thelma.. What a wonderful name for a bridge.. 8)
Stay in there PEP, what you are saying is the best things I have heard from anyone.
Maude
Ohhh there is no doubt that we need Patrick in here.
For many reasons....
I have people telling me that they are now logging on just so they can read what Patrick has to say next..
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/popcorn3.gif)
Don't give up PEP... hang in there and keep at it!
At least for now............. ;)
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/youdaman.gif)
OMG the idiots came by in their $200000 yellow pos and graded all my new gravel off in to one of those damn winrows on the side. After they hauled more gravel in their nice air conditioned 10 wheeler in ten trips than any one 18 wheeler could have ever hauled in five, they pulled up all the dirt and grass from one side and scraped it across the road to the other.
Its July. It hasn't rained in three weeks. This is the dry time. The time you clean out the ditches not grade the road you just put rock on. How was the compaction with absolutely no moisture what so ever. Don't worry about lifting the blade at the low spots just hammer down and keep moving the crap down the road. Never set up a transet and check. Don't check.
Grab a clue.
No Alex I will take "Please stop grading my road" for $1000. If you clean the ditch the water runs down it. If you build a dam it will stop the water and run it down the road. If you crown the road crown it from the highest point in the road to the lowest point in the ditch. If you leave a big ass pile of rocks you have built a dam. If you stop half way you have half ass the road.
Next week how to boil water.............
You know, Patrick, you'd make a great writer for the Elk County soap opera, "As the Stomach Turns"...you've got the gift! ;D
Okay. We have kept quiet until now, but can no longer hold our tongue. Patrick, you said what we've been saying for years! Elk County just keeps dumping more gravel, and the next big rain comes along and washes it all down the creek. So they dump more rock on, wait a while, then repeat. And if there is a problem in the road, they do not try to figure out why the problem exists, they just cover it with gravel, hoping it will go away! Then that gravel washes away, too. Elk County has needed a road foreman with some common sense for several years now. Hopefully the next one will qualify.
As for the brush along the roads, it gets worse each year. Don't they realize it would cost a lot less to just take care of a certain number of miles each year, rather than wait till they all need it and the cost is unbearable. Have they spent so much money on gravel they can't afford to take care of the brush any longer? There are roads out there on the mail route that two cars cannot pass without one of them stopping, due to the trees. I'm sure glad most of the Severy mail route is in Greenwood County. As for the roads on the mail route, there are three overseers. Twin Groves Township takes excellent care of their roads, Fall River Township is next, and Elk County is absolutely the worst - they don't seem to have a clue.
Rudy could you clean up my posts and still give me the byline? I woruld need a new computer. This one is way slow and only types 50 words a minute.
Okay - I am not disagreeing with what most of you are saying... please be patient. The head guy finally has left. We are currently looking for his replacement - I do think you need one road boss, someone with experience running a crew and knowledge how to run equipment. If anyone here is interested in the job, please fill out an application. I am not interested in promoting from within - however I am one vote. I agree with everyone on cleaning the ditches... due to mismanagment, no management, whatever, we are still trying to get culverts replaced that have been bad for several years. I am hopefully Dst 2 crew can get started on some ditching...
Brush spraying - this spring, we asked Dick to implement this using the weed sprayer truck... there was some reluctancy - now we are spraying brush - not a lot, but Billy tries to spray a tank or so a day, before it's too hot or too windy... he is trying not to spray near growing crops and houses also...
Several meetings ago, we asked the guys to stop using gravel as a bandaid and fix the water problem first... I don't think it is totally being implemented. We have argued back in forth about the windrow on the side of the road.... There are some that think you need it, others don't... Basically I think you need some common sense and water flows downhill... It is going to take time to change this climate also...
Budget constraints... we have $60K left in our budget for an unplanned expenses... that is if everything stays the same the rest of the year.... we are already looking at having to raise the road budget next year to account for fuel costs, rock costs, and personel costs... We still have the river road closed to Elk Falls, and may or may not get it open this year depending on the cost...
I also would encourage everyone to run for County Comm, it maybe too late to file this year but you can always do a write in campaign... I know I am not perfect and I am sure someone else could do a lot better job... or you can continue to vent or ask questions and I will try to get those problems resolved.... these roads didn't get this way overnight although I will agree they have gotten a lot worse in the last 2 years... Please be patient...There are 700 miles of roads in this county, so in your little area, it may seem like nothing is happening... I would say that the mail carriers, bus drivers and trash haulers probably get to experience the worst of it
Don't beat yourself up Liz. I think you do a good job. It isn't like it is your butt sitting in the "200000 yellow pos"!!!
Always tough to buck the trend. Maybe next foreman will have knowledge and ability to impart it on the staff.
Elk County began with a shade under 1,350 miles of surveyed section roads.
If there are 700 miles of roads now being maintained, Elk County has abandoned 51.9% of its surveyed road mileage since organization.
As someone who drives on those roads daily and 120 miles on Sunday, I have seen a good portion of them. I would say that the candidate that is chosen to fill the position shouldn't just be qualified as a leader but also possess one trait very important of a leader: the ability to listen. My fault w/the past leadership was its inability to listen to suggestions or modify the plan of attack. To be able to succeed in today's economic and political environment, the ability to listen and adapt your approach to solving a problem is paramount.
Liz I agree , don't beat on your self so bad,from going to county com. meeting the other day, you left a good impression on me. That you are doing a GREAT job. I know you or anybody else can't fix in a short time what has let happen over a number of years.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Hey the guy did a bang up job with the mowing and stuff on road 15 south of Junebug. I think the blades need sharpened though. Ever thought of putting a brush cutter on the old trackhoe? Never have to get in the ditch, pull out the ones on the fence line, and never hurt the existing fence. Which I think if I remember my history caused a lot of fights between the cow and sheep men. It is still the same fence in some places. Why does the county replace it or do they just tear out the old and the landowner puts back the new?
One of the problems I think would be a easy fix is that we tend to think we work at a bank and have set hours. We don't. The construction industry must be fluid. If it means working on Saturday because in rained all afternoon Friday than so be it. Take next Thursday off. If the snowstorm happens on a Sunday then after church fire up the blades and make it safe for school on Monday. There are too many instances where the timing of a job has to be done just right and sitting in an office is not where those items need to be weighed. I know it comes down to money. If we had more money we could do more.
But if we become more efficient we could do more with less. Three shops in three different towns? Really the county is so large that we have to have more county road buildings than Coffey County? I really don't see the need for any of them. None are larger enough to house all the equipment of even their respective area. How many employees do we have and how many pieces of equipment sit idle? New equipment is more expensive but don't we get training with every purchase? If we are trained then are we implementing the training?
As for Liz doing a good job.............What else would you expect. We don't raise them any other way in Elk County. Frustration builds character. Inhale ........ Exhale....... 1..2...3.....4...........5...........6..........7...............8.........9.....
I just hope we get the roads fixed before her varmits start to drive.....
Oh i hope the county don't go through and take out all the trees. there aren't enough trees as it is.
Okay more comments...srkruzich... don't worry - we won't get to all of your trees and Billy has a good idea who is for killing trees and who is not... but trees in ditches are hard on ditches and roads... thats why the highway crew spends so much time mowing every summer....
PEP - the crews have been flexible and have worked on days they weren't scheduled... During the flood last year, many of them worked days in a row to keep our county safe... but several of the guys are single dads, one of mine is the only parent his boys has... and unfortunately the county hasn't adopted a take-your-kid-to-work policy... some places that is okay... some it is not...
I do agree with a one county road shop - CQ does that and it works well.... they have like 7 grader dist, the grader stays in that dist and all that operator does is grade roads, pull ditches... they have 2 guys hauling gravel - they spend 2 days in each grader dist going to spots the grader operator tells them too... They have a culvert crew - 2 guys with a backhoe and dumptruck installing culverts... a ditching crew - excavator and bulldozer... I felt this would eliminate a lot of our extra equipment, plus people could become more specialized in their field. When I first got in, I wanted to implement this... several barriers... one was the idea that the SE part of the county would be lost, b/c believe it or not the geographic center of the county is just south of Howard - so that seemed a decent spot to locate a shop...Money was another issue... the commission wasn't willing to borrow money to build a new shop... so anyway this idea still seems workable... but we will see...We have in the last 6 years, tried to upgrade our equipment, buying better equipment, and have sent everyone to grader school... plus some of the new equipment does come with training...we have implemented a permanent ditching crew - excavator and dozer... before anyone was running these equipment and everyone else was tearing it up... we now have 2 people that just run these 2 pieces of equipment...
Also remember that those guys out there working for your county don't make a lot of money - most of them around $10/hr - 40 hour weeks... compute that, yea we have great insurance, but last time I checked that does not put gas in the vehicle... How would you like to have 3000 experts telling you how to do your job - one guy tells you to leave a windrow so you have material to work with next time, the next guy tells you to leave it all on the road.... before you get too radical... put yourself in their shoes. Believe me - I know we need a lot of improving, and I hound these guys a lot and I am not always on their side... I do think we have an opportunity to turn the county road shop around... so the workers are proud of their job, that we have bragging rights to the best run county shop... but it takes management, training and time...
I will spot you two days a week babysitting for 24 hours of brushcutting.
Can we also pull all the big as rocks to the center of the road and then get one of those cool pull behind rock crushers and make our own gravel? I think especially where they once hauled crick gravel onto the roads it would help... Some of the rocks are pretty huge.
Where do you keep the keys I will work third shift to get some of the work done.
I am not just trying to bash the elk county road crews I know what they get paid. I don't think that any one should sacrafice the quality of the job they do just because of a paycheck. If that was the case you would never get your grocerys bagged with the eggs on top. I used to mow yards for $8 and still got off the mower to weed eat?
I am just trying to make it better.
Why can't we get the state to mow our roads. We could help out with keeping the highway open and they could share the batwings. Why don't we get rid of the city maintenances departments and just consolidate to a county yard. Using the district model each town would get the same amount if not more equipment at its disposal. There would have to be funding and budget issues to work out. Why can't you hire a contractor? Give them a specific amount of money to do a job and have them accountable.
If our mail delivery and trash haulers are the road inspectors any way why not hitch a bushhog on the back of each. They would drive slower and they know the areas by heart. Your mail may be later but the ditch would be mowed and cleaned out.
Why can't the landowners knock off a few feet of brush. How would that hurt the bottom line. We have 30" trees in on the outside of the fence line. A little sprucing up for the home team.
Civic organizations sign up to clean the ditches along the highway why not hit the ditch in the country.
Can I get some of those flexible culvert signs? I hate mowing around the teeposts.
Just a suggestion, i am disabled but am allowed to work no more than 18 -20 hours a week. Could yall utilize someone? I have Congestive heart disease but am allowed to work a little :)
I ran d-9 cat dozer and front end loaders years ago, drove semi for 4 years, ran backhoes and front-end loaders, worked as a powderman for a roadcrew in tennessee.
I'm with skruzich on this one. They come by here to take my trees and there's going to be a fight. There are no utilities on this side of the road and I get taxed out to the center of the road, so technically the trees in the ditch are my property and my ditches drain just fine thank you very much and even if they don't they just flood my yard as everything slopes to my house. :P
As far as the road is concerned, there is a spot on Rock rd that just keeps getting worse and worse and worse and pretty soon I'm going to drive and there's going to be a car high centered in the middle of the road and yet they've graded my road twice, that didn't need it. Soooo.........need to do the roads that need it and leave the others alone. Just a waste of gas. But I do wish they would quit grading boulders into the middle of the road. LOL
All in all, I hope they get someone to lead that will do a good job for the county without wasting a ton of money.
Uhmm maybe just maybe yall can find a better gravel? I am tired of having flats!
SELL THE BGGER ROCKS TO PEOPLE FOR LAND SCAPING!
Quote from: Jody on July 27, 2008, 11:31:34 AM
SELL THE BGGER ROCKS TO PEOPLE FOR LAND SCAPING!
LOL
Actually, I've done a lot of landscaping with the great big rocks I pick up along side of the road. ;)
Is it cheaper to buy gravel and haul it to put on our roads or to have our own quarries? I think especially out west it would be at least feasible to look at opening a county quarry. If we did it soon we could sell to the windfarms maybe. It is over twenty miles one way for some of those roads. Do we source all the rock from one quarry? I know we should buy Elk county first but if the road to to flint oak needs rock do we get it from Severy or from Moline? Isn't there a quarry south of Elk City? Would that be closer to the Longton area or do we have a deal with them?
Why couldn't we haul rock on rail to the grand summit and have a stockpile there? We could do the same thing to Longton, maybe at the COOP, or Bushton but we would have to build a spur in the county. I know the railroad doesn't like short hauls but we buy a lot of rock don't we? Why couldn't we have stockpiles of rock around the county piled by those infamous 18 wheelers. We would have to have a loader at each one but we wouldn't have to have a brand new one. Maybe we could work out a deal with some of the trucking companies who back haul empty. Bring sand down and haul rock back. Maybe we could even get local wheat truck to pickup a load after dumping the commody off at the coop. If Lafarge uses trucks and rail to deliver rock maybe they are on to something.
PEP, I like your idea of a pull behind rock crusher. That would solve two problems, big rocks not in the road, but nice gravel.
Where can one be bought? What can of horsepower are we talking? If it can be powered by a farm tractor, maybe some of the farmers that have a problem with big rocks in there area would pull it a few miles for just FUEL express. I for one would do this in my area.
Just exactly what or who turned the speed button to infinity and then flipped the on switch on Patrick?????
A few comments:
Jagged gravel + tire = flat
Smooth gravel + tire = tire wear
Jagged gravel = road that doesn't "pack" well
Smooth gravel, or jagged gravel + fines = road that packs well
When Martin Marietta operated at Moline, they had a tertiary mill that was a roller mill which made excellent road rock. Every quarry in and around Elk County now only has primary and possibly secondary mills and they are all hammer mills which process rock faster, but leave all the jagged edges. Result, roads that don't pack down as well and lots and lots of punctures and cut sidewalls.
I remember that quarry at Moline...is there some reason why it is permenently shut down? Couldn't it be purchased from MM and used as a county quarry? Is that tertiary (sp?) mill still on site? Could it be part of the purchase? What problems led to its being shut down? Are there members of the County crew that have experience there at the Moline quarry site who could bring it back into being?
Several factors led to the closure of the Martin Marietta quarry east of Moline. Among them:
The distance from the working "face" of the quarry to the "Crusher" was getting ever greater, resulting in more trucking and longer belt conveyers.
The depth of the quality limestone (some of the best aggregate stone in the state) was getting deeper, meaning more dirt and low quality rock to strip off the top.
The deeper depth meant more water to pump out.
Changes in landowner(s) demands as far as royalties and/or rent, both at the working face and the land between the face and the crusher.
And, since the vast majority of the Moline stone was going to Wichita and central Kansas, the horrible and dangerous state of K99 north to Severy caused certain major customers of the quarry to stop buying there because their insurance companies jacked up their rates, if they would insure them at all.
As to reopening the quarry. Not likely. All of the physical plant was relocated or hauled off as scrap. The lands that comprised the quarry have more and different landowners than they did at time of closure.
The strata of stone that was being quarried by Martin Marietta, along with another poorer quality strata, is still being quarried, at the Durbin or Harshman (or whatever its called) quarry to the south. But its being processed differently, and in my opinion, the county may or may not be getting the "good" stone that they are paying for. Regardless of what strata the county is getting, it will never be as good of road gravel as the MM gravel was, because of the type of crusher mill it goes through.
(I am a Durbin, so I hope the "Durbin Police" don't come after me about that last paragraph)
I started a string over in The Good Ole Days about the Moline Quarry for anyone wanting more info.
The road ditches in my area of the county have always been very well mowed; from road to fenceline.
Now, before you start calling Liz and complaining that she's giving special treatment to those of us to live/work for her dad... the RANCH actually does this themselves. And pays for it themselves. It has been a thorn in my husband's side ever since he started working here; why the ranch would pay for the diesel and man-hours to mow every single mile of road ditch that they drive to/from every single pasture they own/rent. With the rising prices, they've only started doing it once a summer instead of once a month, but still on the ranch's dime.
But, there are 2 ligitimate reasons for this... #1) It would be October before the county got to it, and #2) It's the ranch's liability if an animal gets out and a Sunday driver hits it because they couldn't see it in the tall road ditches. I'm not sure if anyone else around the county does this or is concerned (or if this ranch is just covering their butts)?
SO... this brings me to my next point/question (hey PEP can't have all the fun outside the box)... instead of paying single parent county employees to do ALL the work, how about have some sort of plan with the farms/ranches around the county to help out doing some of the work with their own equipment? Say a discount in taxes based on how many miles of roads they help with? And it would be on a first come, first serve basis. Everyone can stand in line around the county shop one morning like waiting in line for ticket sales to put their name on each mile of the county. And I'm not talking the work it takes some training to do, but at least mowing and spraying and picking up big rocks and reporting issues to the county manager. Then that would allow the "real" workers to focus on the larger issues in the county, like fixing caved in roads and replacing culverts (plastic or otherwise). And even assign the road sign duty to the FFA and 4-H clubs; they just have to keep the road signs replaced and in good condition and they can use it for community service hours and the county would pay for the equipment to do it (along with a scholarship fund each year with the money they save). That will give those kids some accountablility, too; maybe they'll think about all the hard work it takes to put those road signs up before stealing them/knocking them over every Saturday night.
Oh, and the scholarship money would be, of course, towards the PEP RULZ School of Road Grading so that we'll keep the youth in the county and give them a good paying job.
RULZ scholarship.....I like it.
I think the small amount of work the entire rural workforce could do in lets say just one weekend would help out the strapped for cash road department. We talked about having a clean up the town day where you help pick up trash, metal, c/d to beautify the towns. The county version would be more far reaching.
I bet the scrap value of the junk in the road ditches alone would pay for the cost of picking it up. If we use landowners to maintain the roads for even lets say a month we would save 8.33% of our road budget. Let's pick a dry month like August so we don't need the graders going. I don't know how much diesel that would take but I bet we could buy one more load of rock. If every one just mowed the road ditch along their own land you would probally pay for the fuel in cans picked up. Also if we do it now school is coming up in a few weeks. Get those blind corners taken care of because crashed buses save no one anything.
Just a thought .... not policy......you still have your jobs ...... for now.
Forget the school board, let's make Pat the new superintendent, and county road boss also. There's got to be some economies of scale or scope to reap there. :-\ :o
Wasn't the real reason the MM quarry was moved to Greenwood county was the county tried to screw them on the tax rate of the rock already quaried?